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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Full & Final Settlement Offers - Advice please


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Hi Fred,

 

This 25% short settlement offer seems to have come very quickly, do you have written confirmation that they will not pass on the shortfall to another DCA to collect out?

 

Hope you don't mind me asking but have you stopped paying? If so, how long ago?

 

I stopped in July with 2 MBNA accounts and currently deciding how to proceed as the one has not responded to my CCA request from the end of April and the other (Virgin) has produced a signed tear off slip!

 

D50

 

Hi, I have email from them confirming that they will NOT seek to recover the difference between the short settlement and the outstanding balance. I wont quote the exact wording or who it is from as I am still waiting to see that my account has been closed off. I am not quite sure how my credit file will look and I suppose I am hoping that they will honour what they have said. But I am happy that the email is good enough.

 

In your case the "tear offf slip" sounds a bit flimsy for them to enforce (asuming its dated before April 2007). Why not copy it and put up here (blank out personal details) and see what comments you get.

 

I had been paying a nominal amount since Jul 09 of £5 and could prove that I am on Jobseekers Allowance and my wife on part-time earnings. That seemed to swing it for them to grab the cash a family member had put on the table.

 

Thanks,

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fred have you been making token payments to all your creditors for some time before this offer?

 

Yes, I have ben paying £5 per month token payment (family money help) to each credit card. Only problem is that they (I think) taking the view that yes whilst you are on Jobseekers Allowance and seeking work this is ok. I think they assume that when I do find work I will then (seing as I managed it before) start paying each of the credit cards the hundreds of pounds £££ minimum payments each month again (basically hardly making any dent into what I owe because of the extortionate interest charges).

 

My view is that I CANNOT do that any more. I have family cash on the table and those that take it then great - I will do a deal. Those that dont then I will not pay any more (even the nominal £5) and let the account go to DCA etc.. then try and negotiate with them instead.

 

I do have a couple of cards where it does look like the agreements are unenforceable. I have informed them of this and am awaiting replies. In the meantime they are not getting a penny more from me.

 

Thanks,

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Yes, I have ben paying £5 per month token payment (family money help) to each credit card. Only problem is that they (I think) taking the view that yes whilst you are on Jobseekers Allowance and seeking work this is ok. I think they assume that when I do find work I will then (seing as I managed it before) start paying each of the credit cards the hundreds of pounds £££ minimum payments each month again (basically hardly making any dent into what I owe because of the extortionate interest charges).

 

My view is that I CANNOT do that any more. I have family cash on the table and those that take it then great - I will do a deal. Those that dont then I will not pay any more (even the nominal £5) and let the account go to DCA etc.. then try and negotiate with them instead.

 

I do have a couple of cards where it does look like the agreements are unenforceable. I have informed them of this and am awaiting replies. In the meantime they are not getting a penny more from me.

 

Thanks,

 

cheers Fred- had you also sent CCA requests to them? What address do you have to send the 25% settlement figure to? Is it the Bolton payment centre or direct to them in Chester?

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Sorry if this sounds naive but I have read of many cases where short settlements have been offered.I myself am dealing with a couple at present..one DCA and one direct with credit card company..so far only the DCA has made me an offer which I have considered as no more than a place to start negotiating...they have offered 40% of a 10k "debt"...the only reason I would even consider it would be to try to salvage what is left of my credit worthiness (though may already be too late and if so what is the point in settling this...if I go for a mortgage for example is it likely they will view me as a better risk if my defaults are all satisfied?)

 

My main question is this..has anyone seen a credit file (theirs or anyone elses) with a default showing as settled but not in full ? Surely it is either settled/satisfied or it is not ? Is there another code Experian/Equifax use other than satisfied ?

 

Thanks

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Hi Fredsdebt, I had £8,000+ on a MBNA credit card two years back. I was struggling with the full monthly payments at the time (now reduced and interest frozen) they made an unprompted offer that I could pay them £2,500 in short settlement. I had done some research and asked them if the debt would be written off my credit file. They said no. I have been told by National debtline and CCCS I must stipulate that the agreement is "full and final settlement" and that an entry be made on my credit file as "satisfied". National debtline have a template letter in their leaflet on F+FS offers which states "an entry made on credit file as "satisfied" I still have the debt, it is now at £5,700 and am in proccess of writing back to them as I now have a lump sum. I am starting as low as just over 10%. I am also requesting a CCA as I hope the result of this will help as a bargaining tool. I am sticking to my guns on Full and Final Settlement and not short settlement. I hope you do too. Like you, I do not want further credit but I feel MBNA were all too quick to offer me what seemed to be a good offer 2 years ago, so I guess they would have something up their sleeve.

Good luck!

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It is well known MBNA disposed of loads of original signed CCA's around 2005/2006. That is why lots of unsolicited short settlements at 35% were offered. I settled £34k worth of MBNA and A& L cards for £11k in 2007 - but now through CAG I suspect I could even have saved the £11k!

 

I would not pay another penny to them until you get your CCA. The only thing is if its unenforceable then your remeinaing unenforceable debt will still show with the CRA's - and the courts won't change this.

 

BD

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Hi Fred, hope you find the following useful;

 

 

 

 

Amount disputed:

When a cheque is sent in 'full and final settlement' in a situation where the actual amount claimed is in dispute, it is in the interests of both sides to compromise their respective positions or, in legal parlance, achieve accord and satisfaction.

An example is Stour Valley Builders v Stuart (1992). Stour Valley Builders carried out work for Mr & Mrs Stuart. The builders sent a revised account of £10,163 after the Stuarts had disputed some of the items. Eventually the Stuarts sent a cheque for £8,471 in 'full and final settlement'. Two days after the cheque had been cleared the builders informed the Stuarts that the cheque was not accepted in full and final settlement. The builders sued to recover the outstanding balance.

It was argued in the Court of Appeal that the court should adopt the American rule that the banking of a cheque in these circumstances amounted to an acceptance that it was tendered in 'full and final settlement'. The Court refused to go along with this. Instead, it relied upon the Victorian case of Day v McLea: whether there is an agreement to accept a cheque in full and final settlement is dependent upon the creditor's conduct.

Did the creditor cause the debtor to believe that the money was taken in full satisfaction? In this case the builders had made clear, shortly after the cheque had been cleared, that it was not accepted in 'full and final settlement'. The outcome would have been different if there had been significant delay in informing the debtor. Therefore A must inform B, either at the time the cheque is presented (or shortly thereafter) that he does not accept it in 'full and final settlement'. If he fails to do this he will be regarded as having accepted the amount stated on the cheque.

Summary:

The circumstances in which you will be bound by a cheque made out in 'full and final settlement' are as follows:

  • The cheque is offered in circumstances where there is a dispute about the amount owed.
  • The offer in 'full and final settlement' of the dispute is made at the time the cheque is presented.
  • You present the cheque in payment and it is duly honoured.
  • At the time of presenting the cheque or within a short time thereafter you fail to inform the payer that the cheque is not accepted in 'full and final settlement'
  • Number 4 in the above list is critical.

Otherwise, as the Court of Appeal explained in another case, Ferguson v Davis; '...paying in and clearance of the cheque [is] a clear and unequivocal acceptance...'

Furthermore, if you bank a cheque from a third party (as in the Bracken case) in "full and final settlement' of a sum (whether or not disputed) owed by your debtor you will have signified acceptance of it as discharge of the debt.

 

 

 

The entry on the credit file should be made in compliance with points 49, 50 and 51 of the ICO Data Protection Technical Guidance 02/08/2007, Version 3. I don't think there is a template letter as the f & f offer would include a clause stating that "the creditor agrees to mark the borrowers credit file as settled or satisfied in compliance with (insert appropriate section from the guidance)"

Here is a direct link-

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/detailed_specialist_guides/default_tgn_version_v3%20%20doc.pdf

 

Hope this helps you out.

 

Bill

 

 

Bill can you please clarify the position of where a cheque is sent from a third party to a creditor stating clearly that it is in full & final settlement of a debtors account? ? A certain bank has stated tat the law does not support attempts to impose a unilateral agreement by either party outside of those stated in a legally binding credit agreement.

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Hi bob - don't worry I don't mind the questions.

 

The first one I did they sent 2 letters asking for further payments - this is the one that admitted they had not read the letter before banking the cheque but after I think 2 letters of reply they then closed the account.

 

The second one wrote back on receipt of my cheque confirming acceptance and that the account was closed and my credit file would be updated within 28 days.

 

 

Andie_303 - I tried your approach and I have had a letter back where the bank have taken the money from the third party and not closed the account in full & final settlement. They state that they can do this and that the law does not support such third party offers. Absolutely gutted.

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That's different

You may receive different advice to your query as people have different experiences and opinions. Please use your own judgement in deciding whose advice to take.

 

If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional. Any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability.

 

If you think I have been helpful PLEASE click the scales

 

court bundles for dummies

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Hi Bob,

 

please clarify the position of where a cheque is sent from a third party to a creditor stating clearly that it is in full & final settlement of a debtors account?

 

As I understand it, if a third party offers a payment in F&F and the creditor accepts the payment (by cashing it etc). Then the creditor has accepted that F&F offer.

The creditor has the option to return the cheque if it is not in agreement with the F&F offer.

Disputed amounts/accounts are easier to settle by F&F, because by definition, there is a continuing disagreement in the amount owing. The creditor may therefore be unwilling to prove the balance before a court.

The case you mention may be a non-disputed case.

 

A certain bank has stated tat the law does not support attempts to impose a unilateral agreement by either party outside of those stated in a legally binding credit agreement.

]

 

Amount disputed:

When a cheque is sent in 'full and final settlement' in a situation where the actual amount claimed is in dispute, it is in the interests of both sides to compromise their respective positions or, in legal parlance, achieve accord and satisfaction.

 

An F&F offer is not an imposition. It is the opening offer in a round of negotiation, with an ultimate goal of setting a mutually agreed settlement. Only upon reaching an agreed written settlement, should any payment be sent.

 

 

I recently had reason to consult counsel about an unrelated issue, and had a spare moment to ask whether a payment clearly made in F&F and banked by the creditor, may be refused as F&F and merely be considered a "part payment". He said that if a payment is clearly made to a creditor in F&F, but the creditor considers it to be a part-payment, then the debtor should demand the return of the payment.

Your guess is as good as mine whether a cash-strapped bank would return a rescinded F&F payment, without court action:).

 

 

Bill

Edited by Bill Shidding
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Thanks Bill- what do you mean may be a non-disputed case? How would that affect things?

 

The letter accompanying the offer was from my mother and clearly stated (both in th eletter and on the cheque) that it was in F&F else the cheque should be returned. As far as I see it they banked it and took the money yet have not cleared my account so are therefore in the wrong.

Edited by bobdauilda
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Hi Bob,

 

what do you mean may be a non-disputed case? How would that affect things?

 

If there is no dispute about the sum owed, why would a creditor (on firm legal grounds) accept a lower payment?

 

The letter accompanying the offer was from my mother and clearly stated (both in th eletter and on the cheque) that it was in F&F else the cheque should be returned.

 

Hirachand Punanchand and others v. Temple (1911).

 

Fletcher Moulton LJ at page 340 said:

 

"In the present case you are dealing with the question in respect of money paid by a third person. In such a case there is no difference between payment of the total amount and payment of a proportion of it only, so long as it is paid in settlement of the debt. If a third person steps in and gives consideration for the discharge of the debtor, it does not matter whether he does it in meal or in malt, or what proportion the amount given bears to the amount of the debt. Here the money was paid by a third person, and I have no doubt that, upon acceptance of that money by the claimants the full knowledge of the terms on which it was offered, the debt was absolutely extinguished"

 

(merry xmas!)

Bill

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Hi Fred, hope you find the following useful;

 

 

 

Amount disputed:

When a cheque is sent in 'full and final settlement' in a situation where the actual amount claimed is in dispute, it is in the interests of both sides to compromise their respective positions or, in legal parlance, achieve accord and satisfaction.

An example is Stour Valley Builders v Stuart (1992). Stour Valley Builders carried out work for Mr & Mrs Stuart. The builders sent a revised account of £10,163 after the Stuarts had disputed some of the items. Eventually the Stuarts sent a cheque for £8,471 in 'full and final settlement'. Two days after the cheque had been cleared the builders informed the Stuarts that the cheque was not accepted in full and final settlement. The builders sued to recover the outstanding balance.

It was argued in the Court of Appeal that the court should adopt the American rule that the banking of a cheque in these circumstances amounted to an acceptance that it was tendered in 'full and final settlement'. The Court refused to go along with this. Instead, it relied upon the Victorian case of Day v McLea: whether there is an agreement to accept a cheque in full and final settlement is dependent upon the creditor's conduct.

Did the creditor cause the debtor to believe that the money was taken in full satisfaction? In this case the builders had made clear, shortly after the cheque had been cleared, that it was not accepted in 'full and final settlement'. The outcome would have been different if there had been significant delay in informing the debtor. Therefore A must inform B, either at the time the cheque is presented (or shortly thereafter) that he does not accept it in 'full and final settlement'. If he fails to do this he will be regarded as having accepted the amount stated on the cheque.

Summary:

The circumstances in which you will be bound by a cheque made out in 'full and final settlement' are as follows:

  • The cheque is offered in circumstances where there is a dispute about the amount owed.
  • The offer in 'full and final settlement' of the dispute is made at the time the cheque is presented.
  • You present the cheque in payment and it is duly honoured.
  • At the time of presenting the cheque or within a short time thereafter you fail to inform the payer that the cheque is not accepted in 'full and final settlement'
  • Number 4 in the above list is critical.

Otherwise, as the Court of Appeal explained in another case, Ferguson v Davis; '...paying in and clearance of the cheque [is] a clear and unequivocal acceptance...'

Furthermore, if you bank a cheque from a third party (as in the Bracken case) in "full and final settlement' of a sum (whether or not disputed) owed by your debtor you will have signified acceptance of it as discharge of the debt.

 

 

 

The entry on the credit file should be made in compliance with points 49, 50 and 51 of the ICO Data Protection Technical Guidance 02/08/2007, Version 3. I don't think there is a template letter as the f & f offer would include a clause stating that "the creditor agrees to mark the borrowers credit file as settled or satisfied in compliance with (insert appropriate section from the guidance)"

Here is a direct link-

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/detailed_specialist_guides/default_tgn_version_v3%20%20doc.pdf

 

Hope this helps you out.

 

Bill

 

Hi Bill.

 

I've got a question for you.

 

If I was to offer a F&FS, and have my partner pay the creditor by cheque, then this of course would be the best course of action, as the payment will have been made by a third party.

 

However, would this still be the case if I transfer the funds to my partners account, and then my partner then issues the cheque to the creditor?

 

Wasn't sure whether this was a potential issue or not?

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Hi sgx.saint, please see my post #37 in this thread for the case law quotation on 3rd party payments. As to the query on the source of the funds for the settlement - as I see it, it makes no difference whatsoever as to the original source. The fact that payment is facilitated through a third party should be enough for the creditor to realise its meaning (in law).

 

I would recommend that you satisfy yourself that any advice given is true and enforceable in court.

 

All the best,

 

Bill

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I have been offered a partial settlement with a well known M type bank of 37%! Have till tommorrow to decide what to do.

If I dont pay them tommorrow I will be defaulted tommorrow so i'm completely up in the air about what to do!

 

I do not have the time or ability (Due to bank rules) to get the money into a third party account to pay it from so I would be paying them without written confirmation that it is a settlement payment!

 

Does anyone think it would be a good idea to request email confirmation from the account manager prior to paying? Would that surfice as proof they accepted it as Partial? (Tried for ages to get F&F but they would not budge)

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