UK debt being Chased in Australia

[greeno]

Turns out that AMEX do a regular (1/4ly) VESA look up on the account and the last one was 4 days after P&B put the note on there.

 

I'm writing up the complaint now as it clearly says that I owe P&E money for a start, not Sharkleys.

 

expatdebtor, let us know how it goes, sounds like they're trying to get as many people paying as possible before they get shutdown.

[expatdebtor]

Hey Greeno... sounds like you have the right attitude! The catalogue of disasters that makes up Pie and Beer is boundless! Just close your eyes, pick a letter from them and start there... it's farcical.... oh no it's not! oh yes it is!

Don't worry, every time some new debacle comes my way... CAG hears all about it... pay it forward... so to speak!

[expatdebtor]

Saw your letter from our friends.... jealous! You could play them at their own game and ask a backpacker to photocopy it 3 times and white out the old numbers, and replace with your others. Then send them the copies and claim HEba had written them off!! LOL!

[pdkelly]

Hi. I have been reading this thread with interest. Regrettably, I am another one to have heard from the good folks at Pie and Beer.

Here's my (somewhat lengthy) story:

- Received a letter from P&B demanding $13k. Rang them as I had no idea what it related to. Was advised the debt from a UK Sharklaycard. I told them I did have a Sharklaycard years before but I had cancelled it. I was unaware of a debt on it.

- Immediately rang Sharklaycard. Confirmed the last payment I had made in Aug 2004 which had left no money owing. Turns out Sharklays did not have a record of my cancellation and had reissued a card on expiry in 2006 to an address I vacated in 2004. Someone got hold of this card and did a lot of shopping.

- Rang P&B and flagged the activity on my card as fraudulent. Requested statements (they said would take 3 months) and was told I would not be defaulted pending fraud investigation. I undertook to make a police report when the statements arrived

- While refinancing my card I found that I have indeed been defaulted with Veda by P&B

- Contacted P&B and spoke with two obnoxious low-level managers. They said there was no agreement to not list / that they were "legally obliged" to list after 90 days / that they had no way of removing the listing even if they wanted to

- Rang Veda. They advised a listing should not be made when I had flagged it as fraud (They also later informed me that a UK debt cannot be listed under any circumstances). Further, P&B could remove the listing easily.

- I rang P&B with the info provided by Veda. They again said they had to list the debt after 90 days and would do nothing about it.

- I sent a complaint letter in to the Financial Director at P&B (we'll call him Dopey). He replied stating he had information that the debt was incurred prior to Aug 2004 & that they would investigate the fraud claim on receipt of the statements.

- I again rang Sharklays and they confirmed the debt was incurred in 2006.

- After many phone calls / emails with Dopey (who was very unsure of his facts) he agreed to remove the Veda listing pending the statements / fraud investigation. I also provided Dopey with my request to cancel the Sharklaycard from 2004 and a letter from the Real Estate agent confirming I vacated the address in question in 2004

- I requested copies of my entire file and Dopey refused - in writing! I made a complaint to the Privacy Commissioner. Still P&B have sent me nothing. I received an incomplete copy of some screen notes forwarded by the Privacy Office. The complaint is still open.

- Sharklays statements arrived end of November and confirmed the debt was incurred in 2006

- I emailed Dopey on the 10th Dec requesting an update on the fraud investigation and questioning why I was still receiving phone calls requesting payment. He replied saying they couldn't do anything until I had provided a police report and I was being phoned to chase up the Police Report only. Both these statements are false - I have it in writing that Dopey undertook to launch a fraud investigation "on receipt of statements" and I let one of the P&B phone calls go to voicemail so I have them recorded requesting money.

- On the 11th Dec I received a Veda notification stating a writ & summons has been entered against me

- I emailed Dopey asking why a writ & summons had been entered against me during a fraud investigation and he told me to deal with Circle Legal who were acting on their behalf.

Suffice to say I am well and truly over the parasite that is P&B. I am going to engage a solicitor this week as well as make a formal complaint to ASIC. I am in NSW so if anyone is already using a NSW solicitor please PM the details.

[expatdebtor]

I never cease to be amazed at these idiots! Chin up- we will win! And welcome to the club... not so select now tho!! lol! I haven't needed solicitor yet, heard WA Newman's are very very good tho...

[WA_Newman]

pdkelly,

 

This just keeps getting better.

 

Under the terms of your Barclayshark account you are not liable for any fraudulent use of your card as long as you took reasonable precautions to prevent the fraud. Even if you had been negligent your liability is only a nominal amount (25 pounds I think).

 

Barclayshark have admitted that you do not owe any money yet Pie & Beer are attempting to extort money with threats and menaces. I will gladly forward my legal team's details to you just PM me.

 

However, under the circumstances I would suggest a formal complaint to the Federal Police is in order.

 

In addition you should make a formal complaint against S****e Legal for instigating legal procedings without any legal basis, and for conspiring with Pie & Beer to extort money with threats and menaces. Skippy can provide details.

 

Pie & Beer/S****e Legal have crossed the line. They are no longer pursuing baseless civil actions to try to pressurise people into paying debts that are unenforceable, and often statute barred, they are now simply trying to extort money from someone they know doesn't owe anything. That is a criminal offence. I know someone who works with the Attorney General and was formerly with the Department of Public Prosecutions. PM me.

[expatdebtor]

General whooping and air punching and "yeah -take that!" from me.... lol!

[expatdebtor]

Oops... real info is actually more helpful isn't it! FOS have given Pie and Beer 30 days to resolve their issue with us. Have called for all letters docs and VEDA file for investigation... I can't wait.

[pdkelly]

I had a chat with the very nice lady dealing with my complaint with the Privacy Commissioner today. She said that her role was to ensure that P&B follow the rules and send all documentation that I have requested, but not to investigate or 'punish' P&B for there lack of action.

However, she did mention that if the same company repeatedly gets complaints about them, there is another team within the Privacy Commissioner that will automatically pick it up and investigate them.

Therefore, I think everyone here should request all documentation held by P&B relating to them including all correspondence, screen notes, recordings, copies of original agreements/applications etc.

When they fail to supply them, make a complaint to the Privacy Commissioner. If there are enough complaints, they should get investigated. Although this won't make much of a difference to individual claims, it will be extra work for P&B and will cost them money.

Every little helps!!

[dodgydebt]

Hey PD

 

Feel free to PM me or WA newman for the details of a great legal team.

 

Can't not believe it and can not believe Veda, we have just been through all of this with them, can not believe they have allowed another listing.

 

So now you have the writ (me too) have they removed the default?

[pdkelly]

Hi dodgydebt

WA newman has kindly provided me with the details of a legal team. I'll be following that up shortly. I'm also commencing a complaint against them with ASIC.

Regarding the Veda default - that was removed a while ago when I threatened them with a complaint to ASIC.

I now only have the writ on my Veda credit report. My understanding with this is that once I disputed the debt (which I did immediately), they can not pursue me (let alone summons me) for the debt until the dispute is resolved. So that's something else to complain about.

I'm actually having a bit of fun with this now. I know that they can't touch me regarding the debt and I also know that the debt is a case of fraud on what I thought was a cancelled card. It's therefore quite amusing to see how far they will go and how incompetent they are. Especially the Financial director.

[dodgydebt]

don't forget to write to FOS.

[expatdebtor]

Go for it pdkelly, we all are, and to all three agencies FOS, ASIC and Privacy Commissioner.... let's get this party started! And WA Newman is leading the entire Mardi Gras!!

[ozdebt]

However, she did mention that if the same company repeatedly gets complaints about them, there is another team within the Privacy Commissioner that will automatically pick it up and investigate them.

 

I've been lurking following this thread with interest. I've had problems with Veda before and this thread came up in a Google search. it seems like quite a saga!

 

One thing I can say though is that from my previous dealings with the privacy commissioner, what you've quoted above from them isn't exactly true. They do have teams that do what they call (I think) own motion inquiries.. they mentioned that they were going to do one on Veda on the issue I complained about.

 

However they way they explained it to me, an own motion thingy isn't any different to a normal investigation .. probably won't achieve much!

 

Therefore, I think everyone here should request all documentation held by P&B relating to them including all correspondence, screen notes, recordings, copies of original agreements/applications etc.

 

Oh P&B will just love that

 

When they fail to supply them, make a complaint to the Privacy Commissioner. If there are enough complaints, they should get investigated. Although this won't make much of a difference to individual claims, it will be extra work for P&B and will cost them money.

 

I dunno about this. The PC deals with each complaint on its own - they wouldn't even confirm to me when I complained that they had other complaints against Veda!! EVen though common sense suggests that they must have had some... weird.

 

That said, I doubt making more complaints will really make any difference.. this time of year government departments all close down and they have heaps of staff leave. Chances are making more complaints will just slow the PC down in dealing with the ones it already has. I love bureaucrats!

[WA_Newman]

I've just had an interesting couple of conversations.

 

Firstly. the Privacy Commissioner is very helpful and knowledgable. However, the PC can only offer assistance. The Federal Police would be resonsible for taking action against Pioneer for breaches of the Privacy Act.

 

A better route is to request a copy of all personal information held by Pie & Beer including all correspondence, recordings, transcripts of conversations, screen notes, written notes, copies of original agreements and applications and any letters written to you by any third party (this last one will flush out any letter of assignment). The request is made under NPP 6 which requires Pie & Beer to provide you with copies of all information they hold on you.

 

The most important part is to cc a copy to ASIC. Explain in the letter that should Pie & Beer fail to provide this information you will be filing a complaint with ASIC and that this request for information letter will form part of the complaint.

 

Under the National Consumer Protection Act 2009, ASIC licence and regulate all credit providers, even Pie & Beer. The new Act gives ASIC greater powers and requires greater compliance by credit providers.

 

Given Pie & Beer's track record it might be a good time for PMMs (Pie & Beer Phone Monkeys) to updated their CV (or is that spelt ceevee). PMMs may want to check their commissions are paid up to date. They may also want to check that your employer super contributions have been paid. Don't say you weren't warned.

[ozdebt]

The Federal Police would be resonsible for taking action against Pioneer for breaches of the Privacy Act.

 

The AFP only investigate crimes, and the privacy act doesn't have much criminal stuff in it.. just some obscure credit things?

 

A better route is to request a copy of all personal information held by Pie & Beer including all correspondence, recordings, transcripts of conversations, screen notes, written notes, copies of original agreements and applications and any letters written to you by any third party (this last one will flush out any letter of assignment). The request is made under NPP 6 which requires Pie & Beer to provide you with copies of all information they hold on you.

 

The most important part is to cc a copy to ASIC. Explain in the letter that should Pie & Beer fail to provide this information you will be filing a complaint with ASIC and that this request for information letter will form part of the complaint.

 

Government agencies _hate_ it when you cc stuff between regulators. From a practical standpoint, though, anything you CC to ASIC will probably just get ignored.

 

Under the National Consumer Protection Act 2009, ASIC licence and regulate all credit providers, even Pie & Beer. The new Act gives ASIC greater powers and requires greater compliance by credit providers.

 

This law has only been assented to on Tuesday this week.. it hasn't actually commenced operation yet. Given the structure it puts in place, I'd imagine there'll be a fairly lengthy transitional period before ASIC will investigate breaches of it.

[expatdebtor]

Whatever the case and points of law and powers are, I will be requesting all info, just to reiterate my initial requests in March... still no docs forthcoming, and if court is imminent... it can only help!

[WA_Newman]

Ozdebt is correct. There are very few criminal offences in the Privacy Act, mostly relating to credit reporting. The PC do not even prosecute, it is the AFP who have better things to do. The point was that complaints to the PC don't really get anywhere.

 

The better tact is ASIC who are responsible for licencing credit providers. The point of copying ASIC in on requests for information is to lay the groundwork for future complaints against Pie & Beer for failing to comply with a request under NPP 6. Under the new National Consumer Protection legislation, Pie & Beer will need to be licenced by ASIC. A Credit Licence is les likely to be granted, or renewed, by ASIC if it is investigating numerous complaints for non-compliance.

 

There are other measures contained in the new legislation that will curtail the illegal activities of Pie & Beer. In defence of the reputable debt collectors, many have campaigned for tighter controls to close down rogue operators such as Pie & Beer. It must make Pie & Beer proud that other DCAs look down on them.

 

Just to clarify my earlier post, there are two main objectives. Firstly to obtain all information Pie & Beer hold on you, which looks really bad on them if they suddenly find new information which they later try to introduce to court. Secondly to build a case with ASIC to stop these crooks.

 

I doubt anyone on this forum wants Pie & Beer to continue with their illegal activities, except our friends who work there.

[elliott50]

I am sorry to post in the middle of this thread, but it seemed the most applicable to my situation. I am in a situation where an English Solicitor (associated with Arrow Global) are threatening legal proceedings against me for a debt from Australia. Is this debt enforeable in the UK courts and can it affect my credit rating over here? The debt is quite small.

[babybear39]

I am sorry to post in the middle of this thread, but it seemed the most applicable to my situation. I am in a situation where an English Solicitor (associated with Arrow Global) are threatening legal proceedings against me for a debt from Australia. Is this debt enforeable in the UK courts and can it affect my credit rating over here? The debt is quite small.

 

You should start your own thread and have a read through this:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/227640-cahoot-credit-security-cca-2.html#post2591897

 

Good luck and best wishes.

[greeno]

Greeno,

 

Two main things here:

 

1) Go to mycreditfile.com (VEDA) and sign up for your file plus the annual subscription service that notifies you of changes. Check what has been listed. Write to VEDA if there are any mistakes or listing of non-Australian debts and ask for removal. Once the listings have been removed contact American Express and explain that the VEDA listings were an error and have been removed.

 

Well, turns out that the VEDA item has been removed by VEDA as they investigated all listings by Pie and Beer and removed those related to a UK debt.

[thebrickie]

Just a heads up guys, we put our complaint in to fos beginning of the month, we recieved a letter from Pie & beer's legal office (across the hallway this morning stating that they are no longer part of this organisation, and forward complaints to there in house complaint dept. looks like all will be going to AISC now i think, still not had a response from fos confirming this tho

[WA_Newman]

thebrickie,

 

Pie & Beer have written to FOS saying that they no longer wish to be a member of the scheme, which is hardly surprising given Pie & Beer's attitude toward compliance and operating within the law.

 

One small problem for Pie & Beer: under the terms of the FOS scheme, Pie & Beer are required to give one year's notice to withdraw unless the FOS Board gives permission for them to leave earlier. FOS has not given Pie & Beer permission to leave the scheme.

 

Also, Pie & Beer are not supposed to undertake collections while there is an outstanding dispute being investigated by FOS.

 

It looks like all the complaints to FOS are working. If nothing more it puts a bit of a damper on Pie & Beer's operations.

[WA_Newman]

To All,

 

Don't forget to keep filing complaints with ASIC who will be responsible for compliance and licensing under the new Federal legislation currently being introduced.

[greeno]

thebrickie,

 

Pie & Beer have written to FOS saying that they no longer wish to be a member of the scheme, which is hardly surprising given Pie & Beer's attitude toward compliance and operating within the law.

 

 

Sounds interesting, what does that mean to us?