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Bodgit

UK debt being Chased in Australia

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G'day Guy's,

 

I hope you all can help. It seems the Barcleyshark has sold a load of old debts to a company here in Australia.

 

They are utilising unlawful methods to try and collect on these debts by relisting them an our australian credit files.

 

We utilised a couple of forums including expat and an aussie lawyers site, and recieved some great advice.

 

Unfortunately this company has threatened these sites with libel or such and therefore they have removed the threads and banned most of the posters for naming and shaming the company involved.

 

I was hoping you may be able to host a thread for us as this possible affects a hell of a lot of expats over here who face the same crappy debt collection practices as you are facing in UK.

 

While I appreciate the difficulties in providing advice it is my understanding that the terms and conditions of the original contracts, (or lack of them) have to be abided by in any assignment of debt. You cannot change those terms just by buying them.

 

I suppose we are looking for some advice on the paperwork Barclays send as we have all CCA'd, SAR'd etc them etc and would like to know if they are enforceable agreements etc.

 

I haven't named this company yet, would like your sites approval first, but people need to be aware of what laws they are breaking here over and the better understanding of the UK laws.

 

I have received a lot of info from a great poster on expat, and have used the information you guy's have posted to great effect so far.

 

Any help you would be able to provide would be much appreciated.

 

Regards

 

Bodgit

 

PS: I've read here that you guy's love a challenge

Edited by Bodgit

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Now that is an interesting post!

 

AC

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AC,

 

It's quite an interesting situation, As far as I am aware the CCA 1974 states that only the courts in England and Wales can enforce such an agreement.

 

If a CCJ has been awarded then the situation changes as they could then try and enforce through the aussie courts. A long and expensive route.

 

But as most of us have been away from the UK for a long period of time the debts are close too or are statue barred, but they are relisting them over here for a five year period again.

 

We have contacted the relevant authorities here but require info regarding the agreements etc. In one instance they say they own the debt as in an absolute assignment yet then then state they are Acting for barclayshark.

 

Difficult to try and figure out what is happening.

 

Bodgit

Edited by Bodgit

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Hi Bodgit and welcome to CAG :)

As AC says, very interesting! I'm sure one of the site team will be along to advise..if not you can always hit the red triangle and ask them to check the post out for advice and approval.

I don't think there would be a problem, but you're quite right to check first.

Not naming the company, apart from avoiding threats of libel helps stop them from tracking you down online through name searches, so it might be best to keep it incognito anyway.

See what the mods say, then we'll hopefully see some interesting discussion about the tactics of these downunder DCA's

Elsa x


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It is my understanding of the Statute Barred legislation that if you havnt acknowledged the debt or paid part of the debt in 6 years then it becomes SB'ed, sorry I dont understand what you mean by relisting.

 

Once it is SB'ed then, to all intents and purposes that is it. Nothing to be done, flogging a dead horse IMHO


Lula

 

Lula v Abbey - Settled

Lula v Abbey (2) - Settled

Lula v Abbey (3) - Stayed

 

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Thx for the welcome Elsa

 

The DCA have relisted the debt over here from the time they put it on the credit file in aus. A five year deal over here.

 

The CRA is looking into it and according to the Australian Credit code they should not be able to list an overseas debt as it does not meet the acts requirements.

 

The debts for some are not statute barred yet, but if there is no enforcable agreement then we have proof that it is an illegal act they are doing.

 

The fines for breaches of the act over here are up in the $30K to $75K ranges so about 20K to 40K GB range. (sorry my keyboard doesn't have a pound sign...)

 

the thing is if we tell these idiots to pee off at least we will have some information that we can hang our hats on so to speak.

 

The legislations between UK and Aus are very similar but each country has been set up for it's own recovery system and not for international chasing.

 

Most of the time the DCA's use bull and Bluster but we would like some info on Data protection Act, CCA and the like and how it may affect the on selling of a UK debt.

 

Thx

 

Bodgit

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Just did a google search and yes, looks like the bully boys are at work in Aus. re: old UK debts!

 

Most likely they are agents working for UK/International debt collection firms.

 

Hopefully, the site team will give you the go ahead for your thread.

 

AC

 

p.s. make one wonder if these debts have been securitized through AUS?

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Thx Guy's and Gals for the advice so far.

 

I'm sure a few more off us will turn up soon, and appreciate all the help so far.

 

I know it's a curly one and have asked the site owners to peruse and provide some advice if possible.

 

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

Bodgit

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p.s. make one wonder if these debts have been securitized through AUS?

 

 

Whats 'Securitized' Angry, never heard that one before know?

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Securitized basically means the 'portfolio of debts which included projected estimates of the value of any attached assets (ie housing 'secured' on alleged debt) has been sold to the highest bidder in an attempt to

 

1. Recoup any projected losses and get the dodgy stuff off their books

2. Make money for the poor struggling company who no longer has the clients in their grip.

 

Hope I've expressed it as simply as possible. Its a common term for reselling dodgy deals to hide the evidence and has resulted in the collapse of a few mortgage lenders...

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Thanks sillygirl1 & Cashins.

 

Think I understand.

 

So basically these alleged debts were sold as a group of all sorts of types of debts to anyone who bidded the highest.

 

I actually spoke to the DCA here and he let slip that they had bought from a few UK companies, Barclayshark, Abbey, Nat West etc. would that make a difference?

 

Bodgit

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why not take a look at this as well:

Information Commissioners - Data Protection Public Register

 

and look up the UK company to see exactly what they have registered with the information commissioners office with regards to processing Data, it should bring up info like this example from a well known agency, which is the parent of another DCA that has, well 'No Power to Contact' ;-) :

 

Purpose 2

 

Debt Administration and Factoring

Purpose Description:

The tracing of consumer and commercial debtors and the collection on behalf of creditors. The purchasing of trade debts, including rentals and instalment credit payments, from business.

Data subjects are:

Customers and clients

Relatives, guardians and associates of the data subject

Data classes are:

Personal Details

Financial Details

Goods or Services Provided

Offences (Including Alleged Offences)

Sources (S) and Disclosures (D)(1984 Act). Recipients (1998 Act):

Data subjects themselves

Relatives, guardians or other persons associated with the data subject

Current, past or prospective employers of the data subject

Business associates and other professional advisers

Other companies in the same group as the data controller

Suppliers, providers of goods or services

Credit reference agencies

Debt collection and tracing agencies

Traders in personal data

Central Government

Courts / Tribunals

Transfers:

None outside the European Economic Area

 

Notice at the bottom there they do not transer data out of the EEA, so it might just be worth looking up the company in question as i'm sure you just can't transfer Data willy nilly unless the agreement at the start declares that your data may be processed outside of the EEA. I could be wrong, of course, but worth having a look at the register.

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Securitising is another way of saying "Lend us a tenner and here is the fiver I owe you..."

 

Its a way of getting rid of 'potentially toxic debt' or 'unenforceable debt' so you look squeaky clean to the regulators.

 

I don't know anything about how Aussie law links in with UK law but I would imagine there are links somewhere along the line.

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why not take a look at this as well:

Information Commissioners - Data Protection Public Register

 

 

Had a quick look for Barclayshark and it comes up for all groups- None outside the European Economic Area

 

The company over here is not registered in UK but they are a part of the TCM Group International Limited, but again nothing comes up.

 

If Barclaycard are the OC and they have onsold a debt overseas and they state they do not transfer Data outside the EU zone, then surely they have breached the Data Protection act!! or am I mistaken.

 

Bodgit

Edited by Bodgit
Can't Spell!!!

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Very interesting.

 

 

Sounds very very iffy.

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Thx AC,

 

Still not sure how that would affect an unsecured debt from a credit card that is under the CCA.

 

Perhaps I've had a couple of tinnies to many tonight to fully grasp the process of securitization.

 

Forgive me if I'm coming across a bit dim but basically they have 'cleaned the books' with the UK company and restructured it to an Australian based portfolio???

 

Had a look a the link but don't fully grasp the concept. Never been financially astute at the best of times..

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No worries!

securitization is an extremely complex matter;

most credit card accounts are securitized.

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Phew, Glad I might not be as dim as I first thought.

 

Nearly had a Heart Attack when you first mentioned it. Had visions of the House etc going to the highest bidder!!

 

If it is Securitized would that be why this DCA has to keep going back to the OC to gather the required info.

 

They sent only a few of us a notice of assignment to state they have been assigned the debt including all rights and interest etc. Yet when you ask them for info they have to send back to Barclays!

 

Cirian 75 it seems very strange to me that they can get away with divulging our data overseas....

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More likely the the UK DCA have overseas branches and/or agents in Aus.

 

DCA's will not hold any account information prior to them taking over the alleged debts;

these debt buyers buy big buckets of distressed debt;

they are electronically sold/assigned on cd roms with minimal information, bit like forest gump...

 

Thus they will have to go back to the OC, in order to obtain any legal documentation re: the accounts.

 

It is well known that Barclayshark bought truckloads of LEMONS from Morgan Stanley to name but one.

 

Feeling sure that you have heard about LEMON Law!

 

AC

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maybe its just worth writing to them with the usual ' i do not akknowledge this debt' letter to them, and ask them to specify under what oz law they claim to be able to enforce collection of the alleged debt. At the end of the day, if a Credit Agreement was signed, it would have been under the heading 'Consumer Credit Act 1974' not under 'CCA 1974 + any other act related to consumer credit ever created in world' (?) . If they are acting on behalf of Barclays, that would be slightly different i guess, but i would think the most they could do is as if 'they could have some money, please' on behalf of their client, and register defaults in the UK as they would be able to under the CCA 1974.

If the an australian company now owns it and claims you owe them directly, i can't see how they could enforce it - you've never signed any australian agreement to allow them to register defaults, payment information etc, in that country, have you? I think they're just trying it on IMO....

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How about a start with the Prove it letter and a complaint to Australias equivalent of an ICO, at no point should anyone ever (even in private) admit to the debt.


Lula

 

Lula v Abbey - Settled

Lula v Abbey (2) - Settled

Lula v Abbey (3) - Stayed

 

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Dannyboy 660 was a fountain of knowledge re debts sold on to overseas DCA ****. Hopefully he will be along soon with advice


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