Suspended pending investigation thats already happened ?

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

i would advise checking all your evidence to be sure

 

Regards

[majik]

i will but i am not sure what relevance it would be ? I was advised my OH union in infrom company i was aware of my rights when i was first suspended as they were treating me as an unprotected employee as that incorrectly thought i has under 1 year service, once i pointed out that i was a protected employee and had legal rights they bucked up there ideas and treated me better than they were, still not great but better.

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

It is definetly relevant, because if you had admited that you allways intended going to an ET before the appeal hearing, it shows you never had no intention to follow the process and are just looking for a quick buck !

 

Regards

[mariefab]

Yes you can have your OH represent you.

I represented my daughter a few years ago when she was dismissed for Gross misconduct.

She sent a letter, as below, to the Tribunal.

 

address

 

Case Number xxx

 

Claimant xxx

 

Respondent xxx

 

date

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I am writing to inform you that I would like xxx to represent me in this case. Please find details below.

 

Yours sincerely

 

xxx

 

Name xxx

 

Address xxx

 

Telephone xxx

 

Mobile xxx

 

Email xxx

 

The Tribunal forwarded the information to the Respondent and thereafter all communication was sent to me.

[majik]

Hi

 

Many thanks Mariefab, i have emailed this to the ET and to other sides solicitor as instructed by ET.

 

Also have recieved their defence it confirms that allegation 1-3 were upheld in my favour at appeal and it also states that all evidence has been released beofre any meeting took place, a blatant lie.

 

Other side Solicitor has confirmed he has instructed his client to keep all CCTV requested and he has confirmed that they still have it, He will be visiting them in the next 3 weeks to discuss the issues with them.

 

Their are a few errors in their defence, do i need to address this before the ET or is it all addressed at the ET. Errors include:

 

Stating all evidence was release in plenty of time to be used.

All request for additional evidence were complied with.

 

Dont have defense with me atm will post more once more is known, Can anyone confirm what the ET will be for now. will it be for Allegations 1-4 or just Allegation 4 as the company have confirmed 1-3 were upheld at appeal in my favour.

 

Could i also use that fact to back up my case that it was a witch hunt to get me out, they investigated Allegation 1-3 for 8 weeks before i was informed of any problem and all 3 have been ruled in my favour due to NO EVIDENCE to support the companies claim. (This was the CEO'S opinion not just mine).

 

Still waiting to hear from ACAS and for a date to be set, ET said i will get a letter soon with a date.

[majik]

Hi,

 

It is definetly relevant, because if you had admited that you allways intended going to an ET before the appeal hearing, it shows you never had no intention to follow the process and are just looking for a quick buck !

 

Regards

 

After looking through it was admitted before i had the outcome of the appeal but not before the appeal, This was due to time constraints.

E.G. if i have not had your reply by xx i will be have to file with ET due to time limits running out.

Also due to the fact i was told i would have outcom by xx date, 4 weeks later i was still chasing so again due to time constraints i has to file the ET or risk being out of time.

Edited January 18, 2010 by majik
clarifying

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

It sounds like you will only be going to et for allegation 4, but allegation 1-3 will be brought up as it is relevant to the case.

 

Once et have received all the defence and evidence it can take up till april before it goes to court.

 

I would be very carefull having your other half represent you, as from what i can understand allegation 4 involves him. the company may use this and play this angle.

 

Regards

[majik]

Hi,

 

It sounds like you will only be going to et for allegation 4, but allegation 1-3 will be brought up as it is relevant to the case.

 

Great as it helps prove my case that the company is incompatent and also helps prove it was hounded out of the company for no reason.

 

Once et have received all the defence and evidence it can take up till april before it goes to court.

 

ET already have the defense, that is the ET3 is it not ?

 

I would be very carefull having your other half represent you, as from what i can understand allegation 4 involves him. the company may use this and play this angle.

 

How could/would a company do this, OH is lay person so surely Chair person would not allow this ? Also after speaking to OH Union we now have another angle to take on allegation 4 ourselves which we feel can also prove this happened as OH stated and not as company have suggested.

Also Union have suggested we discredit the company as their ET3 is factually incorrect and we have this in writting from the company, ET3 claims all evidence was released in a timely manner BEFORE any action was taken by company. This is not true, we had to fight heaven and high water to get documentation from them and it was only once I PROVED TO THEM that i had been employed for longer than 12 months that we managed to get some of the evidence, this was roughly 40 hours before the disciplinary meeting therefore making it very difficult to get any legal view on this.

 

Regards

 

Also if OH is representing me he will be present should questions need to be asked/answered as you have rightly pointed out i was not involved in allegation 4 at all, it was between OH and soon to be ex staff member.

Edited January 19, 2010 by majik

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

Was all evidence shown or offered at the investigatory meeting ?

 

If it was and this was minuted then it does show that the company presented and gave you all the evidence.

 

Regards

[majik]

Hi,

 

Was all evidence shown or offered at the investigatory meeting ?

 

No some extracts were shown but not all and i did not recieve evidence requested in this meeting until 40 odd hours before my disciplinary meeting, I have emails from HR to prove this. Also to date nothing has been shown or recieved in relation to allegation 4 which as confirmed in the ET3 was the only reason not upheld at my appeal.

 

If it was and this was minuted then it does show that the company presented and gave you all the evidence.

 

It cannot be minuted as to date i have never signed the minutes from this meeting, no copy was given to me and the minutes were not signed by anyone at this meeting, not me or the company.

 

Regards

 

Also in the companies downfall where any evidence/documents were shown the company makes no referance in the minutes (typed or hand written) as to what it was, they merely state xx shown a letter or a extract No mention of what it relates to, this has already casused problems as i have asked for a copy of something shown and they state i already have it, i said i dont and they are now not sure what it can be. Reason for minute taker not writting it correctly was their hand/arm hurt.

Edited January 21, 2010 by majik

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

Also after speaking to OH Union we now have another angle to take on allegation 4 ourselves which we feel can also prove this happened as OH stated and not as company have suggested.

 

Just to let you know if you have any new evidence you must declare it and make it available to the other side before the et, if you do not then you will be unable to use it on the day.

 

Regards

[majik]

Hi,

 

Just to let you know if you have any new evidence you must declare it and make it available to the other side before the et, if you do not then you will be unable to use it on the day.

 

Regards

 

As you will be well aware having been through an ET and won all evidence is disclosed to other side well before a ET takes place. The evidence will therefore be released once a Case Management Order/Discussion is set.

 

Again i would like to point out that to date the company have not shown or released anything in relation to allegation 4, Im hoping that once CMO is underway i can get everything i need to disprove their version of events and that they will try to settle before ET. Im also hoping that the Company will see the evidence i have and admit defeat as i have it writting from the company on more than 1 occasion that allegation 4 was not part of my disciplinary meeting however it was the only reason for my dismissal.

 

The evidence is not new as such it's from a hand written copy of minutes where it is confirmed that Allegation 4 was not part of the disciplinary. (very badly written and has taken some time to figure out the hand written minutes)

 

This helps disprove the ET3 in that i couldn't have been dismissed for allegation 4 as this was not heard/dealt with at the Disciplinary meeting. (Noted in 2 seperate meetings chaired by 2 seperate people), the first time Allegation 4 was partially discussed was at the Appeal so therefore by default i was given no appeal to allegation 4 as the end of the appeal letter states i have no right of appeal.

Edited January 21, 2010 by majik

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

so was allegation 4 never disscussed at the discipolinary meeting in any form ?

 

Regards

[majik]

Hi,

 

so was allegation 4 never disscussed at the discipolinary meeting in any form ?

 

Regards

 

No it wasn't thats in both my eyes and in the CEO's eyes, it is pointed out in the appeal and he states "let me check my notes, I agree that it was not discussed at the disciplinary but you were told it was going to be"

 

There is one mention of it in the disciplinary, I asked about the companies use os certain equipment to which the reply i got was " what about the code" to which i stated "i do not know, its not part of this disciplinary. Could you please answer my question ?"

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

But you did take along a prepared statement to the disciplinary ?

 

What did they say abouth this ?

 

Regards

[majik]

Nothing is said about it other than the company dont believe it, but then they confirm that "it is not part of the disciplinary" and they are "merely responding to the statement given".

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

I am just as confused as you !

 

They fired you for allegation 4 but never disscussed it, they just received your statement ?

 

So you was fired without ever disscussing or seeing any evidence regarding allregation 4, did you raise this at the appeal ?

 

Regards

[majik]

Hi,

 

I am just as confused as you !

 

They fired you for allegation 4 but never disscussed it, they just received your statement ?

 

So you was fired without ever disscussing or seeing any evidence regarding allregation 4, did you raise this at the appeal ?

 

Regards

 

Yes but ET3 defence states all relevant evidence was released in a timely manner before any action took place in line with law and polices etc.

 

They fired me for allegation 4 and others but appeal upheld in my favour for all allegations except allegation 4.

 

Allegation 4 was not discussed at disciplinary at all and it wasn't really discussed at appeal either, all that was said is that "i didnt give OH code" and they state "staff member says she didn't either so therefore you are lying".

 

Yes it has been raised about the fact no evidence has been shown or released several times and all i am ever told is "we have seen the statement and it says staff member didnt give OH code" or "we have spoken to staff member and staff member says didnt give OH code"

 

This is my issue, how do i defend it when they wont say/show what they have ? How can i request documents when i have never seen them ? The company wont release the CCTV which proves OH statement, they are currently going through CC with OH as they failed to comply with S.A.R. no reason for the failure has been given just waiting for their defense atm.

I really need the CCTV to prove OH version of events. It shows them talking, then staff member looking on the comp then talking again then OH going to other building etc.

 

If OH already had code why would he have been in building talking to staff member, he would have gone straight to other building etc ?

Edited January 21, 2010 by majik

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

I wouldnt worry about the evidence, you will get to see it all before you go to et, they may be witholding the cctv due to an objection from the other staff memeber in the cctv.

 

Even if the staff member gave your oh the code this still does not give him authorisation to use it, how does the code thing work ? what codes do you have and how many different ones? did your oh use his own code ?

 

Regards

[majik]

Hi,

 

I wouldnt worry about the evidence, you will get to see it all before you go to et, they may be witholding the cctv due to an objection from the other staff memeber in the cctv.

 

Even if the staff member gave your oh the code this still does not give him authorisation to use it, how does the code thing work ? what codes do you have and how many different ones? did your oh use his own code ?

 

Regards

 

Company wont use the CCTV as it disproves their version of the events.

 

I had one code and OH asked for a code or key to open a door to check for CCTV signage,(the code opens a door to allow access to a building only, nothing else) staff member gave OH a code after looking on the PC, Company claim that OH used my code, OH has always stated code used was given to him by staff member he does not know if it was mine or what.

 

OH signed in as a visitor on site and signed out as a visitor on site so he would have had the same ability to access the site as anyone else that had signed in in line with compnay policy. Again this will be proved by the CCTV which the company wont release or by the S.A.R which the company wont comply with.

 

Other staff member would not be in the CCTV directly, staff member may be shown on a forward facing monitor showing what the CCTV is recording but SM wouldn't actually be in the images im requesting but the desk would etc and SM was only member of staff on site.

Also as company released images of OH without his constent or permission or knowledge why would they have informed SM that the footage had been requested ?

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

is the staff member that gave your oh code, the same one that was there when police incident happened ?

 

If they have cctv they will have to release it as the et will force them to.

 

so was the code oh used the same as your code ?

 

When oh signed in was there any rules and regulations on where he could access and procedures etc ?

 

even if the other staff members hand is in the cctv fotage they can dispute its release for fear of reprisals.

 

Regards

[majik]

Hi,

 

is the staff member that gave your oh code, the same one that was there when police incident happened ? Yes but their was also a second SM present at the Police incident*

 

If they have cctv they will have to release it as the et will force them to.

After speaking to the ET today they didn't seem to think so, they stated i could request anything they were going to use.

 

so was the code oh used the same as your code ? I do not know, they have never told me the code used and OH cannot remember the code as he used it once and it wasn't really inportant at the time so he didnt remember it.

 

When oh signed in was there any rules and regulations on where he could access and procedures etc ?

No rules or T & C present.

 

even if the other staff members hand is in the cctv fotage they can dispute its release for fear of reprisals.

So surely releasing CCTV of a member of the public and only a member of the public would be the same yet the company did that.

Regards

 

* = By Police incident i take it you mean the one that happened that day. If not and you mean the one that happened 3-4 weeks later where the SM left site leaving the the door wide open and unlocked (the very same door they accused OH of using the code on) then yes and that day SM was only member on site. Just for the record no action was taken by the company against this member of staff. VERY CONSISTANT LOL !!!

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

After speaking to the ET today they didn't seem to think so, they stated i could request anything they were going to use. do you mean that the et will not force them to produce the cctv to you ?

I do not know, they have never told me the code used and OH cannot remember the code as he used it once and it wasn't really inportant at the time so he didnt remember it. can the company prove what codes were used ? are they logged anywhere ?

 

So surely releasing CCTV of a member of the public and only a member of the public would be the same yet the company did that. what cctv did they release and to who ?

Just for the record no action was taken by the company against this member of staff. VERY CONSISTANT LOL !!! how are you so sure ? have you spoken to the member of staff in question ?

Regards

 

 

[majik]

Hi,

 

After speaking to the ET today they didn't seem to think so, they stated i could request anything they were going to use. do you mean that the et will not force them to produce the cctv to you ?

 

ET said i am entitled to anything other side will be using, as it will disprove their version of events i doubt they will use it.

 

 

I do not know, they have never told me the code used and OH cannot remember the code as he used it once and it wasn't really inportant at the time so he didnt remember it. can the company prove what codes were used ? are they logged anywhere ?

I would presume that they can prove what code was used however as OH half for a code or key he used what he was given eg CODE.

 

So surely releasing CCTV of a member of the public and only a member of the public would be the same yet the company did that. what cctv did they release and to who ?

They released CCTV to me of my other half as proof that i commited one of the allegations. ( They now have confirmed i did no wrong)

 

Just for the record no action was taken by the company against this member of staff. VERY CONSISTANT LOL !!! how are you so sure ? have

you spoken to the member of staff in question ?

 

No, CEO told me and the SM is still working there, its 2 mins from where i live, i drive past their almost daily and see her car etc, dont need to speak to find that out.

 

 

Regards

 

 

 

 

Please see my replies

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

I would presume that they can prove what code was used however as OH half for a code or key he used what he was given eg CODE. sorry a bit confused by the above statement ? what do you mean ?

They released CCTV to me of my other half as proof that i commited one of the allegations. ( They now have confirmed i did no wrong). did they have to release this via sar you filed ? i thought you said that they had released no cctv footage ??

Regards