My Daughter versus Virgin Vie

[MONX]

Hi all

 

I think I know what I need to do but would like your opinions.

 

About six months ago, the weekend that my daughter turned 18, she was pursuaded into becoming an agent for Virgin Vie, organising parties in peoples homes and selling Virgin Vie make up and jewelry on a commission basis.

 

She was told that she had to pay for her "kit" which held samples and demonstration make up. This was going to be sold to her for £60 pounds if she sold enough stock but if she didnt sell enough stock she would have to pay the full price of £200 for the kit.

 

I really didnt want her to do this but she went behind my back and signed up to it, and as I knew it would, it all went a bit pear shaped when she lost interest after the second party she held and obviously hasnt sold enough stock to get it at the reasonable price of £60.

 

She has just rung me in a blind panic saying that she has had a letter from a debt collector saying that she owes £480 and that they are going to be taking legal action against her.

 

I dont have details of which DCA is being used I will post all the particulars after I have been home and checked it all.

 

My first instinct is to ask for the credit agreement that my daughter signed and any other documentation that shows the terms and conditions of her "contract".

 

Would you agree and does anyone else have any experience of dealing with a debt collector under these circumstances?

 

Many thanks in hopeful advance!

[WelshMam2009]

Found this whilst searching for info about Sir Richard Branson's company!!

 

The company ask you to commit to earning £500 in sales within your first two months.

 

This may be where the figure of £480 has come from.

 

You really need to see the contract she's signed although my guess is that it won't be a credit agreement as such as your daughter won't have borrowed any money but has made a commitment to purchase (via sales) a certain volume of stock.

[MONX]

Thanks for that WelshMam2009, I'm really angry with her...she has seen me go through hell and back trying to sort out my debts and I had hoped it would be a deterrant to her not to sign up to anything without looking at all the pitfalls...but of course she was 18 and knew it all and I was just being a negative stick in the mud! Precious arent they?

 

The good thing about this is that at one time it would have mean the end of the world to me and I would be a nervous wreck but thanks to CAG and CAGGERS I am almost welcoming the challenge!

[WelshMam2009]

Thanks for that WelshMam2009, I'm really angry with her...she has seen me go through hell and back trying to sort out my debts and I had hoped it would be a deterrant to her not to sign up to anything without looking at all the pitfalls...but of course she was 18 and knew it all and I was just being a negative stick in the mud! Precious arent they?

 

The good thing about this is that at one time it would have mean the end of the world to me and I would be a nervous wreck but thanks to CAG and CAGGERS I am almost welcoming the challenge!

 

Do you know, when I read your thread Monx, I thought that's exactly the sort of thing my 15 year old would do!! The very fact that they think they know it all, and are not receptive to opposing views, can actually make them rather vulnerable at times.

 

Anyway, CAG has been a lifeline to me also...think I would have ended up in strait jacket somewhere if it wasn't for this site!!

 

So, take a look at what your daughter has signed first. You could always post it up for people to comment. I would also make your daughter take responsibility for her actions and do all of the letter writing herself.

 

Best of luck and let us know how you get on.

[MONX]

Yes, she was a bit daft to sign up to it but I do think the women who did the "interview" had glossed over all the negative points and made much of the holiday in South Africa my daughter could win should she sell a certain amount of stock....what I do find really interesting is that she turned 18 on the Wednesday and they organised the contract signing on the Saturday...they were obviously waiting until she was legally responsible..for which I dont blame them but they didnt waste anytime once she was and I do think they made it seem a lot easier to sell over and over to your friends and family than it was!

 

I will be making her deal with this herself with my advice and support and hopefully, should all the paperwork be kosher I will help her organise a reasonable payment.

[MONX]

Anyone heard of Commercial Credit Services in Bromsgrove?

 

They are the DCA that have sent a letter to my daughter....its very scary (for my daughter) and uses words like "Court action" and "Solicitors".

 

They have itimised her supposed Debt as follows:-

 

debt £286.70

court fees £ 30.00

solicitors costs £ 50.00

statutory interest £ 1.89

 

total £ 368.59

 

There's lots of threats that it will affect future credit/mortgage applications etc

 

My reaction is to get her to ask for a deed of assignment as she hasnt had one and for any (credit) agreement and a copy of the terms and conditions. We will ofcourse make it plain that she doesnt acknowledge the debt and that she will not be ringing them and will only deal with them in writing.

Edited September 15, 2009 by MONX

[Pinky69]

You will not get a deed of assignment - that is a business document - what you are looking for is a Notice of Assignment to say the alleged debt has been passed to a DCA. I think you have grounds for putting the account in dispute on the basis of an Unfair Relationship (CCA 1974 and 2006). An approach was made to her just after her 18th birthday to join the sales team and she was enticed intothe contract by the possibility of a holiday in South Africa? Was she given any time to consider or told what would happen if the sales target wasn't reached? Google Unfair Relationship Consumer Credit and you will be able to make a case I'm sure.

[MONX]

Thanks for that Pinky69, I will check up on the Unfair Relationship Consumer Credit and research that.

 

I will see what comes from our request for the notice of assignment and credit agreement with the terms and conditions. I doubt they will have been given these.

 

I believe from what my daughter has told me that the two women who interviewed her glossed over the negative points...she didnt seem clear what would happen should she fail to sell enough stock appart from the fact that she would have to pay full price for the kit £200 which is not what the DCA is asking for, its obvious they are adding to the debt trying to scare my daughter into contacting them.

[WelshMam2009]

Why have they added on court fees and solicitors costs?? What a [problem]!!

 

If it did get to the small claims court then it is highly improbable that any costs would be awarded.

 

Did you look at the agreement Monx? Is it a credit agreement or is it more of a business contract?

[MONX]

Why have they added on court fees and solicitors costs?? What a [problem]!!

 

If it did get to the small claims court then it is highly improbable that any costs would be awarded.

 

Did you look at the agreement Monx? Is it a credit agreement or is it more of a business contract?

 

Can you believe it lol! They think that by adding a load of further spurious costs on to the debt that it will frighten us into contacting them.

 

Unfortunately my daughter has lost all of her documents (must of dropped her on her head one time too many when she was wee) so I cant tell what kind of agreement she had with Virgin Vie but before the DCA can do anything they will have to provide it along with the Notice of Assignment as my daughter recieved no notification from Virgin Vie that they were going to go down the route of debt collection.

[MONX]

Ok no response since I sent the prove it letter to the DCA which is good news however I am concerned that my daughter will have earned a default on her credit rating due to this. I've told her to contact Virgin Vie direct and offer to sort it out with them but she is making excuses.

 

Kids! Who'd have them eh?

[WelshMam2009]

Ok no response since I sent the prove it letter to the DCA which is good news however I am concerned that my daughter will have earned a default on her credit rating due to this. I've told her to contact Virgin Vie direct and offer to sort it out with them but she is making excuses.

 

Kids! Who'd have them eh?

 

Well at least you've shut them up for a while Monx...bet they didn't expect that response!!

[MONX]

Lol, no I think they were very surprised that a scared little 18yr old would know who OFT were and the ins and outs of the Data Protection Act , notice of assignment etc etc.

 

Just goes to show doesnt it, if you stand and fight they slink back under the rock they crawled out from under. When they send their threats of court action and adding costs and charges to something they cannot even prove you owe, or that they have the legal right to pursue, that you will run scared to the phone and offer them your first born! Silly, silly DCA's!

[2Grumpy]

Does the fact that the interview took place before she was 18 make any difference?

 

Although that was only a few days before she was 18, it does mean that she wasn't given any information post-18

[2Grumpy]

 

They have itimised her supposed Debt as follows:-

 

debt £286.70

court fees £ 30.00

solicitors costs £ 50.00

statutory interest £ 1.89

 

total £ 368.59

 

£368.59 is well off £480 - have they explained that?

 

Also have they explained why the debt is £286 and not £200? Does that include interest or charges? Did your daughter pass on any money for any sales that she did make?

It's [well maybe not] surprising that they charge £60 or £200 and not a pro-rata depending on the amount sold

[MONX]

They havent replied to our "prove it" letter so there is no explanation as to the amounts of the alleged "debt" or anything else.

 

She turned 18 on the Wednesday and they did the interview on the following Saturday so she was infact 18 at the time of the interview albeit for only 4 days!

 

Her orders and the money she made for them (which were passed on via debit card to the Virgin Vie account online) are documented but there doesnt seem to be any reduction in the amount of the outstanding kit price due to this....unfortunately without the agreement she signed I dont have any information and the dca certainly wont be able to provide one.

 

I am pestering her to contact Virgin Vie so that she can straighten all this out and organise it so that the £200 for the kit can be discussed, written off or organise a payment in order to make sure her credit rating is ok. Unfortunately she is in that place where her credit rating ranks lower than going out and chatting to her friends on facebook!

[MONX]

Ok couple of months on and we get another letter in April. They have changed the reference number so I assume after my original letter they thought better of it but then for some reason it has got into circulation again.

 

In April I sent another letter telling them to prove it and then nothing until last week when some spotty oik rang requesting to talk to my daughter, thinking it was her employer I said she was out and he asked me to pass on a message it was only then I realised who they were.

 

I told them that she wouldnt enter into any converations with them over the phone and would only respond to written correspondence AFTER the production of her credit agreement and the notice of assignment. He wasnt happy but left with a flea in his ear.

 

Yesterday my daughter got the same identical letter but instead of the addressee being Commercial Credit Services it was S C Gray Solicitors ltd!

 

Arrrgggghhhhhhh!!!!! I think the only thing left is to get heavy with them and send a CCA request.

 

Its like banging my head against a brick wall!!!!!!

[Bazooka Boo]

CCS funnily enough are from my neck of the woods, and I can categorically tell you that the building is owned by BT! So looks like they have an office in the same building (quite likely)

Funny how Virgin an BT are communications companies:confused:

 

SC Gray, I seem to recall getting one of their letters with loads of missives in it, then it was promptly passed further down the chain.

 

I would send them an edited version of the 'account passed on whilst in dispute' letter, and state that you have still yet to receive a letter explaining where the debt has come from and what the charges exactly relate to.

[MONX]

Hi Bazooka Boo

 

I have written again this is an edited (personal dets removed) version of the letter I sent recorded delivery yesterday.

 

Dear Sir/Madam

This is becoming very tedious.

I have already replied to your spurious attempts to recover a debt that is in serious dispute twice and yet you still continue to litter my welcome mat with your silly demands. Now that you have decided to use a solicitors name on the top of your letters in an effort to intimidate me, I will respond in the same vein.

On the 23rd April I requested that you (should you wish to pursue me for this alleged debt) supply me a copy of the credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974. To date you have failed to comply with my request. Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to Virgin Vie At Home, nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

As I was never issued with a Notice of Assignment, I have no evidence that you have a legal right to pursue this debt.

I require that you send me a true copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

I require that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist. I am advised that should you persist in pursuing this debt ignoring the above information you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well.

No other correspondence will be accepted, I will not respond by phone so please do not contact me on my home phone number.

Should you attempt litigation it will be vigorously defended and the failure to supply documentation under the CCA 1974 is a complete defence to any legal action and your actions will be vexatious and unlawful.

 

 

I enclose, for the avoidance of any doubt, copies of the two previous letters that I have sent you, you will also note that I have sent this via recorded delivery so that we are secure in the knowledge that you have received this correspondence.

Yours etc

 

I'm hoping this will get them to slink under their rock again.

 

Cheers!

 

Monx

[Bazooka Boo]

Have you already sent that?

[PGH7447]

should have added

 

Valid even if not read or understood by you or any employee

[MONX]

Shouldnt I have?

[MONX]

Ok, just got a reply from the doilems, they are "returning the case to their client".

 

I knew that they wouldnt have anything they could use...just waiting now to see what Virgin Vie At Home come up with. I will dispute anything they do come up with because she was only 18 for three days when she joined and only the positives of selling loads of stuff was emphasised, nothing much was said about what would happen if she didnt sell enough kit.

 

Hopefully this will be the last we will hear from them.

[WelshMam2009]

Hopefully this will be the last we will hear from them.

 

In my experience, it is unlikely to be Monx. Just as you think you've put the matter to bed, so to speak, it rears it's ugly head and you end up repeating yourself over and over.

 

I have an M&S account with a letter saying that they can't find a copy of my agreement and hence, it is unenforceable in court. Nonetheless, this has been passed to 3 different DCA's plus one "solicitor." I usually ignore them for a while before sending them my standard response.

 

Until the 6 year statute of limitation period expires then I think you may just have to accept that you will be inconvenienced from time to time with such drivel. They no doubt hope that you will eventually cough up something.

 

On a related issue, has your daughter checked her credit file recently?

[MONX]

In my experience, it is unlikely to be Monx. Just as you think you've put the matter to bed, so to speak, it rears it's ugly head and you end up repeating yourself over and over.

 

I have an M&S account with a letter saying that they can't find a copy of my agreement and hence, it is unenforceable in court. Nonetheless, this has been passed to 3 different DCA's plus one "solicitor." I usually ignore them for a while before sending them my standard response.

 

Until the 6 year statute of limitation period expires then I think you may just have to accept that you will be inconvenienced from time to time with such drivel. They no doubt hope that you will eventually cough up something.

 

On a related issue, has your daughter checked her credit file recently?

 

Oh I am sure they will try again but they now know that she isnt just going to pay a debt they havent proved she owes or that they have the right to collect.

 

About her credit file, theres nothing on it!....She has since applied for and got (against my wishes ) a Dorothy Perkins card, so we did a check on her file last night and there was no defaults or anything on it.