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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Huff&Puff that is so defeatest!:p!

 

There is stacks you can do to stop them ringing, it just takes the right tool for the job that's all....

 

Administration of Justice Act 1970 (c.31)

 

Protection from Harassment Act 1997 (c. 40)

 

Now, any breach of both the above Acts is a criminal offence, the Admin of Justice Act makes it a criminal offence for a creditor or their Agent (DCA) to make demands for money which are aimed at causing 'alarm, distress or humiliation, because of their frequency, publicity or manner'.

 

And the second act makes it even clearer, that 'any person who pursues a course of action which they know 'or ought to know' amounts to harassment of another person could be classed as having committed a criminal offence under the act.

 

So a complaint to the DCA in question swiftly followed up with a complaint to Trading Standards Institute - Home page

And the The Office of Fair Trading: Contact us

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Great advice from Bazooka Boo. Send your letters, and if they still keep ringing you can just say you've written to them, and you'll only accept communication in writing, or just refuse to go through security, or just hang up.

 

I actually did start talking to them though after joining CAG, and what's been surprising is that after I have told the first DCA on each account what the situation actually is - no proper agreement, CCA 1974, regulations state... etc., when the original creditor takes it back and passes it to a second (or third) one, I never hear from these unless it is in writing.

 

Clearly the credit card companies don't tell them the account is in dispute and why when they sell it on, which is making me wonder if the DCAs all share some kind of database which says it's not worth bothering with phone calls to DD because she'll just quote the CCA 1974 at you.

 

That seems incredibly far-fetched but I was being hounded every single day but loads of them, and I haven't heard from any of them for months - not even the new ones call now.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi all, an update. I sent the CCA letter to Fredricksons and have received a credit agreement paper from Nat West now. They were 2 days over the 12 working days and apologised for the delay! wow!! Thing is, the credit agreement does not have my signature on it anywhere, just my name and address. Am wondering if it is the right thing and would like to know what to do now? Please help. I tried to scan it to put it on here but am useless with computers.Basically it says the amount of loan, insurance cost, total charge for credit and total amount payable, annual percentage rate. There is a place at the bottom of the page that says customer signature but no signature on it by me or anyone from the bank.

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In a bit of a rush so can't find the exact link I am looking for, but, just because they have replied with the agreement minus your signature, does not mean it is unenforceable, they are allowed to remove signatures from the agreement, there is a template on here somewhere which says why you shouldnt use s78 request if you want to receive the agrerement with your sigs on.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Hi, after trying everything i could to get the letter on here have given up and done the only other thing i could think of!1 typed it out myself and pasted it! Long winded but hopefully worked. Everything is word for word although the layout might be a bit suss, sorry!! I noticed there was no date on the agreement, don't know if that is relevant, and no signatures either. So, here goes...

 

 

Date 14 December 2009 Nat West Bank Plc

Etc

 

 

 

 

Our ref: *****

 

 

Your ref:

 

 

 

 

Dear Miss ***

 

 

Re: Request for copy of Credit Agreement under Section 77 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Account: *****

 

 

We write with reference to your recent correspondence, dated 21 November 2009 and apologise for the delay in our response.

 

 

Please find enclosed a copy of the Credit Agreement, Insurance Certificate and a schedule of Arrears as requested.

 

 

We trust this is satisfactory; should you have any further queries please contact this office at the above address

 

 

ours sincerely

 

 

scribble scribble

 

 

Recovery Manager

 

 

And....

 

 

Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

 

Please sign below where indicated

    Parties to Agreement
     
    The Bank Nat West Bank
    The Customer Me
     
     
    2. Purpose and Amount of Credit
     
    (a)£4,500 cash loan for Refinance Debt this Bank Main Loan (a) + (b)

(b)£ for repayment to the Bank of account number £4,500

 

( c ) £1,275 being the premium payable to the insurers for optional Loan Protector insurance in relation to this Agreement against the death sickness accident and unemployment of Me (the insured ) in accordance with the Banks Loan Protector Insurance leaflet.

 

 

3. The Credit £5,775

    (2(a)+2(b)+2© )

 

    4. The total charge for credit £2,208.60 Comprising (a) Interest £2,208.60 (b) Administration Fee £0

 

    5. The total amount payable ££7,983.60
    (3+4)
     

    6. The Instalment Repayments

Repayments due one month after the Credit is drawn and monthly thereafter as follows:-

60 Repayments of £133.06 Comprising Main Loan repayments

Insurance Loan Repayments £29.38

 

7.Annual Percentage Rate (APR) 14.4%

 

 

8. Charges on Default (a) The Banks Expenses in enforcing this Agreement. These expenses will include (but not be limited to) expense of taking steps including court action , to obtain payment , tracing the customer if the customer changes address without notice and communicating with the customer if the customer breaks the terms of this agreement and (b) Interest (APR) on any sum payable to the bank under this agreement from its due date to the date of actual payment

 

    9. Service Account
    (Account from which Instalment Repayments will be made) Sort Code ***

Account Number ***

 

 

    10. Destination Account

(Account to which any cash loan is to be paid) Sort Code ***

Account Number ***

 

 

By signing this Agreement the Customer confirms:-

  1. having read this agreement including the terms and conditions set out seperately
  2. having received a copy of this agreement
  3. having elected to take the option of death, accident sickness and unemployment insurance

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

See page 2 of this Agreement for the remaining terms and conditions related to the Credit

 

 

 

WOW IT WORKED, Phew..... Please let me know what you think. Thanks foe all the help

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It's a multi agreement so there should be separate signature boxes for the loan and PPI - they are different types of credit and must have separate agreements and prescribed terms. The loan is debtor-creditor and the PPI is debtor - creditor - supplier, the supplier being whoever provided the insurance. Did they send you statements?

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There doesn't appear to be seperate signature boxes. There was a bit on the terems and conditions page that just said customer initials. I never had any statements from the insurance company as far as i'm aware, in fact, until i got a load of paperwork from nat west, i did not realise that i had insurance. It does not seem that there are seperate agreements here.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all, hope you've all had good xmas and new year. Would be grateful for any advice on what to do now. Have started to get calls from Fredricksons again, not answered then just checked the number but don't really know where i stand now. Is it worth still trying to dispute the case or should i make an offer of payment? Hope someone can help.

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Hello Hippy - you seem to have been deserted!:-) As I said above, this is a multiple agreement and the PPI should have been shown separately. Do you think you were badly advised about the PPI anyway? Were you aware it was there? I would argue with Frederickson that this is an unlawful agreement as there should have been 2 separate agreements, one for the alleged loan and one for the alleged PPI. The document they have sent is not a properly executed agreement and until such times as you receive one the alleged agreement is in dispute and you will be making no payment whilst the dispute remains. Send you letter to Frederickson's Complaints Department. Tell them you want everything in writing and they must cease all calls immediately as they have no legitimate right to pursue the alleged debt whilst it is in dispute. Failure to do so will result in a complaint to the OFT's Credit Licence Fitness department. Frederickson's don't like any hassle and will probably sell it on. If they do, you are half way there because it will just get passed round the houses until one of them finally gives up.

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Thanks so much for your help. Am writing to fredricksons and will say what you said about it being an illegal agreemant. I did not even realise that i had the PPI until nat west sent me that bunch of papers!! So definately think it could be classed as misold. Thanks for your help, will update when i get reply (or if!!) Bye for now and thanks again.:)

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No I have been scarred for life, a 'friend' told me to watch (Removed for not only my sake, but to protect others also!), I'll never be able to close my eyes again!

Edited by Bazooka Boo

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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I was just about to start cooking dinner ... that is seriously gross.

I really do appreciate all those 'thank you' emails - I'm glad I've been able to help. Apologies if I haven't acknowledged all of them.

You can also ding my gong if you prefer. :)

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Please, I am trying to eradicate it from my Memory! I had to sleep on my back last night,

the next time I see my so called 'mate' I'm just gonne kick him square in the crown jewels....

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Back to matters in hand, I was thinking that Unlawful and Illegal kind of mean the same thing, so would Unfair be better terminology to use?

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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