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    • If anybody has any advice here, it would be greatly appreciated, I already suffer with pre-existing disabilities & have struggled with this so far. 
    • so return of goods order etc etc read upload  scan pages to jpg, redact in mspaint. the convert to and merge to one mass PDF  read upload and use the online listed sites for all 3 stages. do you want to keep the car? i will guess this was a manual paper claimform direct from the co.court or was it org sent from salford bulk processing and has just got reaq ssigned?      
    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue –  29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM 1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached  2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00. The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month. 3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement, Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us. Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement 9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate 4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:- a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement  number xxxxxx. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     The total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by First class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges 5.  At the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage. Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024  What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg  
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

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      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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me and my Various benefits story


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Hello.Really need some advice if possible. I have worked as a Civil Servant (I know) for over 34 years and due to a road accident in 2004 now find that I can no longer work at my job which was very mobile with a lot of driving,walking around and standing.

I was hit by a stolen lorry and am still waiting for the Motor Insurance Bureau through my insurers and their appointed soliicitors to be compensated (if at all).

I carried on working on light duties and was protected by my boss for 4 years and had long periods of sick absence. At the beginning of October I finally called it a day and went long term sick. I go on half pay on 9th March.

I have the usual commitments of mortgage, kids at home etc and a disabled wife who is om long term Incapacity Benefit and DLA.

I am trying to get ill health retirement but don`t hold out much hope. In this day and age they will let me go on to no pay and terminate my employment.

I will probably apply for DLA but need to know at what point and how I apply for other benefits or who I should speak to about this.

Sorry if I seem a bit unwordly given that I did work for the Government but this has turned me from a self assurred breadwinner into a stressed out wreck with very litle confidence,

Cheers

IF I HAVE BEEN ANY HELP AT ALL OR JUST MADE YOU LAUGH AT MY STUPIDITY PLEASE MARK MY PERFORMANCE!

 

ALSO REMEMBER TO DONATE. EVERY LITTLE HELPS AND THE FORUMS ARE FOR YOU!;)

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  • 2 months later...

HI

Wonder if any of you have any experiences with Capita.I

 

t`s a long story but I have gone through the process for ill health retirement and having phoned Capita have been told that my case is closed but my HR and Manager have nothing from them yet.

Does anyone know what `closed` means?

Cheers

IF I HAVE BEEN ANY HELP AT ALL OR JUST MADE YOU LAUGH AT MY STUPIDITY PLEASE MARK MY PERFORMANCE!

 

ALSO REMEMBER TO DONATE. EVERY LITTLE HELPS AND THE FORUMS ARE FOR YOU!;)

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  • 1 month later...

Hope someone can give me some guidance.My wife has been disabled for some years and I now find myself disabled and off work. We both get high rate mobility DLA I get low rate care and my wife gets high rate.

As I`m off work and will not return can I claim carers allowance even though I am in receipt of the above,ESA and have applied for council tax relief.

Cheers

IF I HAVE BEEN ANY HELP AT ALL OR JUST MADE YOU LAUGH AT MY STUPIDITY PLEASE MARK MY PERFORMANCE!

 

ALSO REMEMBER TO DONATE. EVERY LITTLE HELPS AND THE FORUMS ARE FOR YOU!;)

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Yes, unless your ESA is contribution-based, in which case you could still apply but may get carers premium instead, a top-up of your income, instead of carers allowance. However you must be able to show that you help care for your wife for at least 35 hours a week.

Edited by maggie1968
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Thanks for that maggie1968. At the moment my ESA is contrbution based but they said once my pay had stopped which it now has it would become income related.Since my wife became disabled 12 years ago even when I was working full time I looked after her for over 35 week. I had carers come in when I was away.We still have carers paid for by direct paymrnts from the County Council but this is only for 11 hours per week.

IF I HAVE BEEN ANY HELP AT ALL OR JUST MADE YOU LAUGH AT MY STUPIDITY PLEASE MARK MY PERFORMANCE!

 

ALSO REMEMBER TO DONATE. EVERY LITTLE HELPS AND THE FORUMS ARE FOR YOU!;)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi I`ve worked for 35 years and now find myself on ESA,DLA.

My last pay from my employers was on 31st May although I am still employed by them until they agrre or disagree to give me ill health retirement.( Yes I `m a bloody civil servant)

I phoned the working tax and child tax credit people and when I was on half pay got £300+ working tax credit and £200+ child tax credit.We used to get £40.

Now that I am on no pay but still employed I have lost the working tax credit.

My ESA has stayed the same so I`m a bit bemused why I was getting more when I was being paid.

I know it`s a`working tax credit` but it seems an odd system.

Any views or am I just being dense?!

IF I HAVE BEEN ANY HELP AT ALL OR JUST MADE YOU LAUGH AT MY STUPIDITY PLEASE MARK MY PERFORMANCE!

 

ALSO REMEMBER TO DONATE. EVERY LITTLE HELPS AND THE FORUMS ARE FOR YOU!;)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi I have an ESA interview next week with Atos and was wondering if there is anything to stop me audio taping it?.

IF I HAVE BEEN ANY HELP AT ALL OR JUST MADE YOU LAUGH AT MY STUPIDITY PLEASE MARK MY PERFORMANCE!

 

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I have been turned down for Carers Allowance as I get ESA and this is an `underlying`entitlement

IF I HAVE BEEN ANY HELP AT ALL OR JUST MADE YOU LAUGH AT MY STUPIDITY PLEASE MARK MY PERFORMANCE!

 

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My mobile is a sony erricson and it has a facitlity under entertainment to opt for sound record. I can pop it in my pocket then and it as long as careful where 'microphone bit' is lying right way, it does its job. I would think there would be no harm in 'accidently' pressing it before you went in discretly.

 

I think you can ask officialy for a copy, but your own is best;)

 

If I am talking poop someone will put me right:eek:But thats what I would do.

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Thanks SJ my wife has the Nokia 5800 which we tried out and it records for an hour so I`ll do that but if possible I would like them to know I`m recording it

IF I HAVE BEEN ANY HELP AT ALL OR JUST MADE YOU LAUGH AT MY STUPIDITY PLEASE MARK MY PERFORMANCE!

 

ALSO REMEMBER TO DONATE. EVERY LITTLE HELPS AND THE FORUMS ARE FOR YOU!;)

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Received from Atos Healthcare this morning!

 

Atos Healthcare has clear guidance agreed with the Department for Work

and Pensions (DWP) on audio taping and video taping a medical

examination. This is designed to ensure that a consistent approach is

taken to all such requests and is designed to safeguard the interests of

both the customer and the HCP(health care professional).

The DWP never requires that a medical assessment for the purpose of

advising on entitlement to state sickness or disability benefits be

recorded on audio or videotape.

Any request can only be agreed with the prior consent of the HCP, and

then only if stringent safeguards are in place to ensure that the

recording is complete, accurate and that the facility is available for

simultaneous copies to be made available to all parties present. The

recording must be made by a professional operator, on equipment of a

high standard, properly calibrated by a qualified engineer immediately

prior to the recording being made. The equipment must have facility for

reproduction so that a copy of the tape can be retained by all parties.

The cost of the making the arrangements rests with the customer, as

recording is not a requirement of the DWP.

If Atos Healthcare is unable to grant a request for recording we will

offer you an opportunity to rearrange your appointment so you can

arrange for the examination to take place with a chaperone or other

witness.

 

If you wish to record the examination, taking the requirements above

into consideration, please contact the examination centre that your

husband is due to attend, and enquire whether the examining HCP is

willing to have the assessment recorded.

 

with regards,

 

Customer Relations

IF I HAVE BEEN ANY HELP AT ALL OR JUST MADE YOU LAUGH AT MY STUPIDITY PLEASE MARK MY PERFORMANCE!

 

ALSO REMEMBER TO DONATE. EVERY LITTLE HELPS AND THE FORUMS ARE FOR YOU!;)

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DO NOT TELL THEM YOU ARE

RECORDING THE EXAMINATION UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES

Unless you are actually complying with their over the top rules about pro-calibration, twin deck machines etc.

 

If you try to use your own tape recorder, and do not comply with their rules then if you tell them your going to record the medical they will stop the medical, and your benefits can be stopped.

 

If you are going to record secretly, do it just that way - SECRETLY - you are within your rights to do so, just DONT TELL THEM...

 

 

Note - all posts are my opinion only, and no action should be taken on any advice given without consulting independant advice from a suitably qaulified advisor.

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What bullpoo. What they are saying is 'we will be telling lies and don't want you to have a copy of those lies'.

When you have a police interview, they have professional equipment, but no engineer come in and does a calibration and the interviewer is not a professional sound engineer.

This is all said to put you off. Yes I agree that a twin and simultaneous recording should be made so they are identical, and each can be given a copy, but that's all.

 

Any secret recording can be for your use only.

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I agree with coniff, the pupose of me recording one would be for personal use as I have neurological and mental problems, which affect memory, if they were not as sympahthetic and judged me differently than entitled for my conditions, I would refer to it for record of transcript.

 

Now they would only have something to fear from that if they treat me for instance with no medical sympathy or as does happen as a number to force into work prematurely.

 

After all what do they need to hide, they are treating everyone the same as trained, surely?? it would only be a worry to them if the case of he said she said turned out to be in our favour.:grin: Then somebody would be in trouble and it wouldnt be us.

 

Just to add for less stress, I wouldnt tell them I was doing it, they would prob be paranoid then.

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...

Just to add for less stress, I wouldnt tell them I was doing it, they would prob be paranoid then.

 

If you did tell them you were doing it, they would not need to get paranoid, they would simply do as their training dictates, and NOT conduct the examination.

Note - all posts are my opinion only, and no action should be taken on any advice given without consulting independant advice from a suitably qaulified advisor.

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Stacked against the public then as usual. I was supposed to have my interview last Wednesday 15th. I sent them a recent 28 page Medical Report from a Harley Street Consultant fully detailing my problem and prognosis.

I sent it Royal Mail Next Day Tracker on the 7th and it was confirmed as delivered to them on the 8th.

My wife phoned them on Tuesday 14th to make sure the medical adviser had it and would have read it and they denied all knowledge!!After being passed around 4 times and speaking to the medical centre I was attending with no luck Atos finally revealed that they are a week behind with opening their post!!!!!!

Mickey Mouse or what. Envelope was plastered URGENT and it cost me £2.80 at the library to photocopy it and £5.40 to post it plus I don`t go out in public unless really important and I decided this was!

They agreed that the interview should be rearranged with no fault on my part and that they would look for the report. I received a new appointment (28th) and my wife phoned them back to confirm they`d found the report. After a lot of umming and Arring they said they had. Wife wasn`t too confident though!

Anyway I`ll go to their interview with my mate who will take notes and my copy of the report.

Also I asked if they had a lift or was the interview on ground level. They said no to both but after much debate agreed to open a ground floor office!

Also asked about disabled psrking. None but multi storey! Hpefully Blue Badge will find me somewhere.

I`ll keep you posted people!!!!!

IF I HAVE BEEN ANY HELP AT ALL OR JUST MADE YOU LAUGH AT MY STUPIDITY PLEASE MARK MY PERFORMANCE!

 

ALSO REMEMBER TO DONATE. EVERY LITTLE HELPS AND THE FORUMS ARE FOR YOU!;)

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If your going in a wheelchair eyeballs, it might be a good idea to check on the access and how easy it is. Any faults or difficulties and you can start the complaints ball rolling.

 

They are quick enough to jump onto shops etc; some of who can't make access without spending thousands they haven't got.

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Connif

Thanks for that but cannot even sit in wheelchair as too painful. Should be interesting as I normally lie down or have to stand with a stick.

I think I`m turning into an Aborigine as I find it easier just to stand on my left leg!

IF I HAVE BEEN ANY HELP AT ALL OR JUST MADE YOU LAUGH AT MY STUPIDITY PLEASE MARK MY PERFORMANCE!

 

ALSO REMEMBER TO DONATE. EVERY LITTLE HELPS AND THE FORUMS ARE FOR YOU!;)

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I'm not going to make any comment about secretly recording people as they go about their lawful business, but I would like to make a point about mail sent to the DWP/ATOS.

 

Such mail is generally handled by a secure processing facility, and that's why it can take longer than normal to reach its intended recipient. If sent by a service like Special or Recorded Delivery, the date it was signed for will be the date it was received at the secure depot, not the date it landed on the desk of whoever is responsible for dealing with it. Typically, these depots will handle mail for many different offices.

 

This is done because there have been cases of government employees opening letters containing bombs (real or fake), suspicious white powders and the like.

 

So by all means used "signed for" services like Recorded Delivery, but don't assume it will speed things up. What it does do, though, is provide some evidence if an important document gets lost.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING. EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

The idea that all politicians lie is music to the ears of the most egregious liars.

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I just want to see some evidence that they are acting in interest of us, rather than just processing numbers for profit.

 

You only have to listen to local radio and hear how many genuine people are feeling mistret by atos.

 

They give out less points that entitled when replying to questions and I personally would record my response to their questions to aid appeals.

 

I dont think they are there for us, more a case of looking at how can we prematurely put people back to work who cant physically do it, to make them, look good to the govt.

 

Sorry if thats against the rules, by I protect myself, Ive had to learn not to trust people, niavity got me into trouble trusting toooooo many people. You are perfectly entitled to state atos rules as I am to ignore them.

Edited by stardust_john
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I can't really comment on ATOS.

 

There are genuine political issues involved, I suspect. After all, many people who have problems with ATOS or the DWP would also have problems with those much-demonised "scroungers", "cheats" and "layabouts" receiving unjustified handouts of taxpayers' money. So the issue becomes, well, where the line should be drawn.

 

Any system that is too restrictive will deny benefits to people in genuine need; any system that is too lax will be open to abuse. It seems a balance is very difficult to find, but I wouldn't assume intentional malice. A long term answer to this "Catch 22" situation really needs to come from our elected representatives.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING. EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

The idea that all politicians lie is music to the ears of the most egregious liars.

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Its more a matter of self protection, so what has happened to others does not happen to me.

 

I have concerns how in some cases it seems atos seem to know better than hospital consultants. These cases end in appeal and often in favour of the genuine claimant.

 

I just couldnt cope with the stress of he said she said, so feel the need to be prepared. It shouldnt offend any atos personal as long as they reported responses to asked questions correctly. If not then their guts be garters and thats what they are afraid of being recorded. Tough.

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