PPI amalgamated into loan repayment?

[FlyboyAgain]

Yes, thanks, Bazaar.

 

I'm really going to enjoy this one and I will keep you all up to date.

 

Ok, cue music!

 

Bom b-bom-bom, b-bom-bom, b-bom-bom...when the going get's tough, the tough get going! (thx, Marlin)

[dx100uk]

Here I took that little bit from the linked pdf, have a read.

http://www.stjameschambers.co.uk/PPI%20Nathan%20Banks.pdf

 

The link seems ok for virus.

 

thats a good doc!

 

dx

[Dipply75]

Read this one flyboy, FOS decision on a pre 2005 agreement. It explains their logic in upholding the complaint:

 

http://www.financialombudsman.com/publications/technical_notes/omb-decision-C.pdf

[alanalana]

Read this one flyboy, FOS decision on a pre 2005 agreement. It explains their logic in upholding the complaint:

 

http://www.financialombudsman.com/publications/technical_notes/omb-decision-C.pdf

 

 

Hello dipply another good link same as before would you mind if I put it into my links thread in the stickies it may just give caggers hope on the FOS route, especially as it is pre FSA regulations.

 

That way it will not get lost as threads close. Thanks

 

aa

[Dipply75]

of course! with anything I post you do not have to even ask

[alanalana]

done many thanks dipply

[IdaInFife]

ok i got it now ( boy am i slow on this one)

 

just incase why folks wondering why intersted in this thread but Fly is in ecosse and have been on a few threads of his and FLy , I asked alan to come to the thread to clarify things as alan is brill at putting things into plain english for us folks that struggle with it no offense meant or thrown

 

ok i see where you and dippy are coming from, the fooking thing is confusing and poorly laid out.

 

 

i was right in a way but they are wrong in the layout!

 

yeah yeah yeah yeah

 

Ida x

[FlyboyAgain]

Read this one flyboy, FOS decision on a pre 2005 agreement. It explains their logic in upholding the complaint:

 

http://www.financialombudsman.com/publications/technical_notes/omb-decision-C.pdf

 

 

Good one, Dipply. Much appreciated.A nd thanks again, Ida and Alan.

 

Just popped in for a quick fly look; will check all this again at length in a.m.

 

Bless yas all.

[N.P]

Subbing

[FlyboyAgain]

A few early morning thoughts.

 

I didn't post the CCA letter last night as I've had a change of plan. Rather than pussy-foot around with them, I intend to write, pointing out:-

 

a) The amalgamation of the PPI into the loan itself. (CCA 1974 s.9(4))

b) The PPI not optional, being a condition to the loan. (mis-selling)

c) The mandatory inclusion of PPI to be seen as a further cost, or charge. (mis-selling)

d) The inclusion of the admin fee into the loan itself.(Citing First County Trust v. Wilson case)

e) Lack of figure detailing total amount of credit.(CCA 1974 s.8(2) (unsure)

f) Lack of figure detailing total charge for credit.(CCA 1974 s.20(1))

 

The PPI issues will be backed up by the St. James Chambers link posted here and the FOS decision on pre-2005 agreements.

 

How does all that sound? Anything missed or that is questionable and should be removed?

 

As stated, I don't want to stop paying the instalments. not yet, anyway. I think it's best to just confront them with the questionable validity of the whole agreement and hit them with CCA 1974 s.65 and s.127. Doubtless they will prevaricate (as always), and even though I have c acopy of the agreement on file, I'll give them the chance to submit the docs via s.77, though the PPI isn't governed by such, as I see it.

Edited July 23, 2009 by FlyboyAgain
general editing

[FlyboyAgain]

Whoaaah.... cold feet time! I have just viewed the Rankine Case pdf for the first time, after doing a bit of sniffing around on s.127, etc. What a nightmare!

 

There's a lot wrong with my agreement - a heck of a lot wrong with it - but s.65 has just put up a red flag for me. Am now unsure how to proceed.

 

Consumer Credit Act 1974 (c. 39) - Statute Law Database

 

Any ideas?

[bazaar]

Well as you say youre not going to stop payments because of the dodgy agreement just yet, so you can hold on that until you feel more comfortable. IMO I dont see any reason why you cannot proceed with a claim for PPI. That will keep things seperate for you at least

[FlyboyAgain]

Does anyone think there is any possibility of failure if I go down the s.127 route? I mean, how could a judge possibly rule otherwise, given the state of this agreement?

[N.P]

Whoaaah.... cold feet time! I have just viewed the Rankine Case pdf for the first time, after doing a bit of sniffing around on s.127, etc. What a nightmare!

 

There's a lot wrong with my agreement - a heck of a lot wrong with it - but s.65 has just put up a red flag for me. Am now unsure how to proceed.

 

Consumer Credit Act 1974 (c. 39) - Statute Law Database

 

Any ideas?

 

 

That means if you stop paying and they start chasing you up, then they must take you to Court and win.

 

Bascially, only a Judge can enforce their claim. But, if your so sure, then he won`t be able to anyway, as the agreement would be unenforceable.

[FlyboyAgain]

Quick question. Doing the draft letter right now. Should I mention the intention of cancelling the PPI instalments or will that throw the whole thing into a default?

Edited July 24, 2009 by FlyboyAgain

[alanalana]

Quick question. Doing the draft letter right now. Should I mention the intention of cancelling the PPI instalments or will that throw the whole thing into a default?

 

They cannot IMO put the loan into default because you wish to cancel a mis-sold product which appears to have been hidden within the terms of the CCA.

 

One presumes you did not ask for PPI and that you were never informed fully on what implications there would be if PPI were attached then later cancelled.

 

Your CCA seems to be kind of unique. I assume you have put this through other areas for advice?

 

aa

[FlyboyAgain]

It does seem to be unique, doesn't it?

 

I am more than confident that the agreement itself is unenforceable and am merely going through the motions with asking for the CCA s77 as I have copies here alreday but hold nothing detailing the PPI. Not a sausage.

 

I am thinking about contacting a financial law firm up here. This is too big a bird and I need the backing of a big gun to blow it out of the sky.

[FlyboyAgain]

Can anyone provide a link to how to charge interest on the PPI since this account's inception?

[FlyboyAgain]

Think I've found a calculator.

 

Something's puzzling me: I've always thought that this PPI was a monthly one, yet Alanalana above states that it is a single premium policy. Coul dit be seen as a 'single' because of tis amalgamation into the debt? or is it, in fact, a monthly? Here's the link to the document again:-

 

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c370/kakkadoo/Scans/TiedLoan1014.jpg

 

Furthermore, I haven't cancelled the PPI repayments yet. By having not done so, would the bank see that as an acceptance of the PPI even though my recent letter informs them of my intention to reclaim? I did ask them for T&Cs to the PPI (along with the s.77 on the loan itself) but meyb I should have SARd them instead on the PPI?

Edited July 28, 2009 by FlyboyAgain
additions

[Dipply75]

I think that's the problem with this agreement - it's as clear as mud! Prescribed Terms are completely missing - there is no clue as to what your PPI is or isn't - how much your policy is, if interest is being charged etc...this should all be clearly stated.

 

You should SAR them for everything - loan details, PPI details inc. cost, type, commission, copies of the security, everything as I think you have several areas of attack here. Get all that in and then you can work out how to proceed.

 

For the PPI specifically you want to know:

 

Is it monthly or single premium

Is interest being charged

What term is the PPI (is it only 5 years on a 10 year loan?)

Who is the underwriter

What commission was paid

How much Insurance Premium Tax was paid (will explain that one later )

Copy of the policy and copy of your application asking for it.

 

I will have to get time to get a close look but I think, as you do, that this agreement is crap! I don't think even a court could enforce it....but let that be double checked!

[FlyboyAgain]

They were informed that a separate letter regarding the PPI was forthcoming; I think that will be the SARs letter.

 

Thx for you observations.

[FlyboyAgain]

Ok, here's an update.

 

No response to the CCA letters but the SAR response arrived today. I must amit there's not a lot of paperwork pertaining to this loan and nothing has been submitted on the PPI!! The only things they've sent are:-

 

 

• a copy of the application form, signed by wife & I
  
• a copy of the agrrement, signed by wife & I and bank witness and bank lawyer
  
• the standard security document (tying the house to the loan)
  
• a direct debit instruction
  
• a loan statement detailing payments from inception to date, in which the b******s ask us to call them if we are anticipating an early settlement!!!!
  

Nowhere is there a breakdown or indeed any paperwork pertaining to the PLI!! The only mention of it is in the loan application form, wher I, as 1st applicant, have signed the 'yes' box. A scan is available here:-

 

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c370/kakkadoo/Scans/TiedLoanApp022.jpg

 

Any comments?

[N.P]

Flyboy,

 

That is an application form. Do you have an agreement.

 

The application does not state the total amount payable, the monthly payments and has no reference as to how much the PPI actually costs, and how they worked out that figure.

 

Going off that document, you should also have an agreement

[FlyboyAgain]

Oh, yeah; it's the same as the customer copy I had on file, bar the signatures.

 

They've provided sod-all about the PPI; not a thing. Odd, also, that only the 1st signator (me) was asked to sign.

[FlyboyAgain]

I think that's the problem with this agreement - it's as clear as mud! Prescribed Terms are completely missing - there is no clue as to what your PPI is or isn't - how much your policy is, if interest is being charged etc...this should all be clearly stated.

 

You should SAR them for everything - loan details, PPI details inc. cost, type, commission, copies of the security, everything as I think you have several areas of attack here. Get all that in and then you can work out how to proceed.

 

For the PPI specifically you want to know:

 

Is it monthly or single premium

Is interest being charged

What term is the PPI (is it only 5 years on a 10 year loan?)

Who is the underwriter

What commission was paid

How much Insurance Premium Tax was paid (will explain that one later )

Copy of the policy and copy of your application asking for it.

 

I will have to get time to get a close look but I think, as you do, that this agreement is crap! I don't think even a court could enforce it....but let that be double checked!

 

Am today asking them for the data on the PPI, for they've included nothing on it. At what point should I halt - if at all - the PPI payments, or should I just wait until I take them to court?

 

And why should I noise them up about Insurance premium tax? How is that relevant to my SAR?

Edited August 13, 2009 by FlyboyAgain
Addition