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PPI amalgamated into loan repayment?


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http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...edLoan1014.jpg

 

here's one I completely forgot about. Tied loan to the property. Don't have any T&Cs other than what's on that document but could you guys check the wording in this? I thought the figures had to be put down as 'credit' and not 'loan'?

 

Also, have a look at the wording in the agreement in the link in my previous post. Now have a look at S1 and s2 in thhis link:-

 

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...o/Scans/s1.jpg

 

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...o/Scans/s2.jpg

 

Since I'm not great with figures, my wife reckons that the bank is charging interest on the loan and the PPI combined. Can anyone concur?

 

The PPI instalments are decreasing over time, obv as a percentage of the balance. Is it admissible for them to have done it this way?

 

Fear I have opened a dificult one this time. Any observations?

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Hi Flyboy

 

A few things jump right out...the lack of information on that credit agreement is shocking....hope other caggers can confirm most of the necessary info is missing - unenforceable maybe? (not my forte I'm afraid :))

 

The amount they are deducting from your loan account for insurance is not the amount stated on your agreement - nowhere can I see that it states on your agreement that you are paying or agree to pay interest on the PPI, yet you obviously are.

 

And my favourite - it states at the bottom that they will keep any comission they get for selling this insurance. Oh dear...if they did and they did not explain this to you, tell you how much etc then they have boo booed big time and you have a very big case against them.

 

There is also the 'admin fee' - you seem to be paying interest on that also - and they have not laid that out correctly on the agreement - should be another huge mistake.

 

All in all - there are many issues to dig into here!

Dipply75

 

I am in no way a legal advisor and only speak from my own experiences and the helpful advice of those in the same boat! :p

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Hi Flyboy

 

A few things jump right out...the lack of information on that credit agreement is shocking....hope other caggers can confirm most of the necessary info is missing - unenforceable maybe? (not my forte I'm afraid :))

 

The amount they are deducting from your loan account for insurance is not the amount stated on your agreement - nowhere can I see that it states on your agreement that you are paying or agree to pay interest on the PPI, yet you obviously are.

 

And my favourite - it states at the bottom that they will keep any comission they get for selling this insurance. Oh dear...if they did and they did not explain this to you, tell you how much etc then they have boo booed big time and you have a very big case against them.

 

There is also the 'admin fee' - you seem to be paying interest on that also - and they have not laid that out correctly on the agreement - should be another huge mistake.

 

All in all - there are many issues to dig into here!

 

I guess I need to ask them for the application form as well, do I, for I suppose on that it would state whether they would be keeping any commission? Must admit that never crossed my mind. And we did take out the PPI voluntarily (although advised to, but that seems fair), for this was a 'big gun' loan secured against the house.

 

The PPI interest is the main bone of contention as that's what my wife has spotted in her calculations. As I said, I'm trash with numbers so if any number-crunchers can back up Dipply75s observations I'd be grateful.

Edited by FlyboyAgain
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Anyone back up Dippy's observations?

 

There also seems to be contention as to whether a lender is allowed by law to add the PPI premium onto the loan itself. There is a ruling on this by a judge that it was unfair to do so:-

 

London North Securities Ltd v Mr

 

OK, so the Appeals thought otheriwse. The PPI cost remained withtin the charges but is still my view that if a lender does that - add the PPI into the loan term, then the total amount of credit stated on the agreement cannot ever be correct! If you look at my 1st scan - http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c370/kakkadoo/Scans/TiedLoan1014.jpg - there are 120 monthly payment of £143.12, which is made up of the loan, the admin fee(!!) and interest. Nowhere, in that paragraph, does it state that the PPI is to be included in that calculation yet, according to my wife's calculations, the PPI does in fact appear to be added into the term of the loan interest.

 

Also, there is no mention of the total amount of credit on that form.

 

Can someone check and confirm wife's calculations?

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c370/kakkadoo/Scans/s1.jpg

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c370/kakkadoo/Scans/s2.jpg

 

 

Site Team?

Edited by FlyboyAgain
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Hi Flyboy

A bit of an obvious question but did you do a SAR?

I got hit with a PPI for car finance and when I got the info back it clearly stated what the commision was and who got it. £400 somebody made out of me that day, get 10 customers a day and happy days!!!!!!!!!!!

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It's no longer just the PPI that interests me: it's the way the loan is set out itself. HAven't CCAs them as have a copy here.

 

I don't have any T&Cs with it although some of them seem to be included in the copy agreement, which is what we've had since it was signed. There is no total limit of loan and they refer to it as a 'loan' and not 'credit'.

 

The PPI has been lumped into the loan, along with the admin fee. I think that's wrong; I just need help in proving it.

Edited by FlyboyAgain
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Are you considering to claim the PPI back? If not why not?

 

Yes, but I need back-up with this. I need proof whether it's right or wrong to add PPI into the loan. We did chose it (given that the loan is tied to the house) but I think it's wrong to add the PPI and admin fee into the loan becuase then the total cost of the loan is wrong! The way they agreement is set out looks iffy, too.

 

HAve you looked at my scans?

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Yes looked at the scans, your PPI is not decreasing its the same figure insurance premium, this is what you'll claim back.

Your interest is decreasing over the loan period because the balance is lowering over time.

So it should be easy to work out the premiums youve paid, we then need to see if you have a valid claim for it all back

 

Sorry my mistake just seen it is decreasing.

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My two main points are:-

 

1) Is the PPI allowed to be lumped in with the loan?

 

2) Is the agreement enforceable?

 

If Yes to 1), then the loan (credit) limit is incorrect. It's incorrect, anyway, as the repayments, as stated , are only meant to incude the laon, the admin fee and interest. Nowhere does it state that PPI is to be included in that figure! Also, there is no credit limit stated.

Edited by FlyboyAgain
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Howdy flyboy

In response to your first question :

1) Is the PPI allowed to be lumped in with the loan?

It was when you took out the loan, however "single premium" policies were banned in May 2009, so now they are unable to do it. If you were to make a claim on this type of premium you would be more likely to get a favourable result as "Single Premium" policies were found to be unfair to the consumer, and obviously banned.

01/08/06- Royal Bank of Scotland - S.A.R sent

24/08/06- Royal Bank of Scotland - Statements Received

31/08/06- Royal Bank of Scotland - 1st Request sent

13/09/06- Royal Bank of Scotland - LBA sent

23/09/06- Royal Bank of Scotland - Offer received £1544 (Thanks but no thanks)

02/10/06- Royal Bank of Scotland - *WON* Full settlement

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What concerns me is your description of the way they sold you the PPI - the recommended it to you and you felt like you had to take it....is it suitable, are you actually able to claim on it (any health issues, employment issues, other policies etc).

 

Defo send a SAR and CCA request - get all the info you can and see whats in THEIR records - many many folk find surprising differences ;)

 

And I still think there are many of the prescribed terms missing from your agreement. (do you remember signing the security also?)

 

Sorry for the hundred questions, coffee overdose lol

Dipply75

 

I am in no way a legal advisor and only speak from my own experiences and the helpful advice of those in the same boat! :p

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Howdy flyboy

In response to your first question :

1) Is the PPI allowed to be lumped in with the loan?

It was when you took out the loan, however "single premium" policies were banned in May 2009, so now they are unable to do it. If you were to make a claim on this type of premium you would be more likely to get a favourable result as "Single Premium" policies were found to be unfair to the consumer, and obviously banned.

 

But was it banned retrospectively? I don't see how you can enforece that by law. HAve you a link back up your statement?

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The issue isnt whether or when it was banned, it was deemed unfair in court thats why so many people are claiming it back, I'll have to dig around and get the cases now:rolleyes:

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What concerns me is your description of the way they sold you the PPI - the recommended it to you and you felt like you had to take it....is it suitable, are you actually able to claim on it (any health issues, employment issues, other policies etc).

 

Defo send a SAR and CCA request - get all the info you can and see whats in THEIR records - many many folk find surprising differences ;)

 

And I still think there are many of the prescribed terms missing from your agreement. (do you remember signing the security also?)

 

Sorry for the hundred questions, coffee overdose lol

 

The security was their stipulation, if I recall correctly. CAn't mind why. We did ask for the protection and found out, four years back when I went self employed that I wasn't covered by it but my wife said we needed it for her work, just in case.

 

The PPI is one issue but I feel, aslo, that that agreement is not set out right.

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Wasn't retrospective I don't think but they were found to be unfair. Unless the bank made it clear that they were adding it to your loan and therefore paying lots interest on it then it was unfair and misleading.

 

Their paperwork certainly gives NO CLUE this is what was happening with your premium! Their own agreement hangs them methinks

 

I agree, I think your agreement is way wrong

Dipply75

 

I am in no way a legal advisor and only speak from my own experiences and the helpful advice of those in the same boat! :p

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Wasn't retrospective I don't think but they were found to be unfair. Unless the bank made it clear that they were adding it to your loan and therefore paying lots interest on it then it was unfair and misleading.

 

Their paperwork certainly gives NO CLUE this is what was happening with your premium! Their own agreement hangs them methinks

 

I agree, I think your agreement is way wrong

 

 

Case, then? I will not stop paying this in the meantime, though. I think if I go after them re PPI alone, the warning bells will clang loudly for them. Even if I cancel it now, they will panic, given what I've done to them, recently.I think it's best if I go after them on both the PPI being added and not being stated in the agrrement as being part of the loan and also on the enforceability of the loan itself.

 

anyone agree>?

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The CCA will show me no more than what I already have on file, bar my signature, of course. Shall I still do that?

 

I also need one of the experts on here to have look at the scans and the basis of the arguement.

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The purpose of requesting the CCA is one to see if they have it - if they don't the loan can go into dispute and they cannot take court action until they supply it.

 

The other is to see if it is the same as some folk have found major differences between their original and the banks 'copy' (allegedly :D) or things added. My mate recently discovered the bank had added PPI without her knowledge and the signatures were very different on what was supposed to be a carbon copy!

 

Compare their copy with what has actually gone on in your statements - see if everything matches up ok

 

Always worth checking ;)

Dipply75

 

I am in no way a legal advisor and only speak from my own experiences and the helpful advice of those in the same boat! :p

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I know all about the CCA routine: I scared off six accounts because of it!:)

 

I agreed to the PPI but I have just found out from my wife that we were told we had to take out the PPI because of the amount, which was £13K. Not an awful lot for such a demand?

 

If I'm going after them it has to be on both accounts: the PPI (now possible mis-selling) and it's inclusion into the loan without being mentioned as being part of the loan and the wording and thus enforceability of the account itself.

 

Need someone to further expand that latter part.

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what do you mean the PPI being included with the loan? on your agreement it has the right figure for the amount and apr and repayments and then a fruther payment of 14.85 for the PPI.... sorry i don't understand where you and dippy see this as included with interst etc :( coudl you tell me so I know cheers

 

ida x

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The figures don't add up (or subtract down) on the statements. They are lumping in the PPI together on the whole account. It doesn't state that on the agreement. Perhaps I wasn't being clear on that. Also, there is no mention of 'total credit' as there should be, yes? Or does the word 'Loan' cover that? I thought they couldn't use the word loan, that it had to be 'credit'?

 

The PPI should not have been lumped in with the total credit. The sums cannot add up right if it is!

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i still can't see where the ppi has been added to the loan :(

what i see: they charge you interest on the balance then the next day add the ppi premium so thats deducted from your payment and the rest of the payment goes towards the balance so i cannot see any interest on the ppi.

 

if you put your loan amount and apr into this:

Loan Calculator, Loans Calculator, Loan Payment Calculator

 

it comes out as the same as on your agreement.

 

what am i missing?

 

Ida x

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