£10,000 Electric bill for 8 years

[Tricky Dickie]

I find this thread most interesting.

 

I am in a similar position myself, with British Gas.

I renovated my property 9 years ago, had the road dug up and new gas pipes put in to feed the property, had a new meter installed, and immediately rang and gave BG the key number to the meter. Since then and now, BG have never, not once, sent anyone to read the meter. Not once did BG send a "Dear Occupier" letter. Not once did BG send a bill. So the property has had 8 years of free gas.

 

In the meantime, the property has had many long and short term tenants, none of whom contacted BG to give readings and BG never contacted the tenants. Finally in Oct 08 BG sent an estimated bill backdated to start 2001. Since then I have been in protracted correspondence with BG. I have taken and given them a reading and have had very polite correspondence with one dept, albeit we have got nowhere in 8 months !! On the other hand, the collections dept has been sending threatening letters saying they are going to get a warrant to disconnect the gas supply.

Finally I wrote a letter to the very nice polite guy in customer relations, copying it to the collections dept, telling him to talk to the rude man in collections as obviously he was unaware that my account was in dispute and of the billing code restrictions and of the Limitations Act. I am waiting to hear back from them both now !!

 

I guess I am guilty, like the OP here, of knowing the property was being supplied and not billed. But having given them my name and the meter key code, I do believe that it was/is their responsibility, as the Billing Code specifies, to be a responsible supplier and contact the consumer for readings and payment. In 8 years BG failed to be a responsible supplier to me or any of the tenants. To date, despite 6 letters asking them to send someone on specified dates (in writing) to read the meter they have failed. Infact, BG are still sending bills and threatening letters to "Dear Occupier" despite having re-notified them my name in Oct 08.

 

In my opinion the OP should only be liable for a period where his/her consumption can be proven, within the Billing Code limitations of billing: ie:- 12 months of the (first) last bill.

 

My 2p worth of contribution

 

HP Mum

Thanks for that its very illuminating and your case has close similarities to my case posted elsewhere.

I would very much like to inspect the provisions of the billing code restrictions and the Limitations Act,can you please give links to where I can find these documents.

 

Thanks TD

[HP Mum]

Tricky Dickie - and others,

 

I just thought I'd give an update as I have had conclusion - after 10 months (or 9 years, depending how one looks at it !).

 

One week ago I received a pretty threatening letter from BG advising they has passed my account to an agent who was going to attend the property to disconnect the supply and there would be £00s of extra costs on top of the £000s of their estimated costs of 8+ years gas suply.

If I was not aware of the Billing Code I would have been terrified to receive such a letter.

 

Originally I had made a complaint to Consumer Direct and followed their directions in communicating with BG. They do not tell you this - but it appears that there is a 9 month time limit in trying to solve issues directly or taking it to the next level - the Ombudsman. At 10months of attempting to get BG to answer my letters and settle the matter I was passed the limit. I discovered this when l called the Ombudsmen. However, as BG had obviously failed in so many ways to answer my questions I got a reference#. This meant I had their official backing.

 

I am not sure if ultimately this helped but within days I had another letter from BG Customer Services - apologising profusely etc and .... waiving all gas charges from 2001 to Aug 2008 .

The last 12 months of charges - which I, not any BG meter reader, have given them, have been accepted and BG is giving the next 12months to pay .

[citydweller]

Crikey, this thread really generated some interest.

 

I am sort of reluctant to post on here due to the high number of Eon employees that seem to lurk, whether they would be able to work out who I am or whether it even matters, I am not sure (?) perhaps even some of those on here that claim to be customers are in fact eon employees, looking to gain insight into current cases !??

 

I have no idea if cases like mine are common or rare so Im not sure of it would be easy for an eon rep to work out who I am or again, if it even matters ??? either way it may be best if I limit the detail I give.

 

Perhaps it may even help my case if they work out who I am and then realise how determined I am and that I have access to the sort of amazing advice and support that can be gained through this website ?? I've learned a heck of a lot.

 

Either way, to clear a few things up:

 

I have been very busy over the last few months trying to sort this saga out.

 

I contaced them (yes a few years after we moved in) and I gave them readings - but no bill came.

 

6 years later a bill was recieved, addressed to me, I am not sure how they got my name, I assume 192.com or some other info database.

 

I gave them genuine readings almost straight away as I saw no point in using estimates.

 

I requested all info about the account and me. They have not tried to contact us or visit the house in all that time, I now have evidence (?)

 

I have been trying to sort it out for months now with letters and phone calls.

 

I contacted energywatch or whatever they are called now, so it is recorded as an official complaint etc

 

Eon are very keen to get the dispute resolved (as am I/we). My/our case has been passed to a slightly more hard-talking rep. I guess eon want it sorted because this 9 month period is approaching that HP Mum's post has mentioned. It's interesting to read her case as it is very similar to my own.

 

After much discussion and various things happening and for other reasons I probably wont disclose on here, they have sent a revised and reduced bill (now below £10k) but it still covers the last 6 years.

 

As you all understand we/I have not tried to contact them since I supplied readings, technically there are about 12 of us liable for this whole period. I was unaware of the billing code until the bill came and we all started to look on the net for this sort of situation.

 

Worst thing is, I am (believe it or not) a generally respectable person with a professional day job so I would actually take the side of mattlamb in all this...if it wasn't me facing a huge bill ! But I am facing a huge bill so I will try and seek to pay as little as possible and as the law allows etc and I'm actually enjoying the 'battle' and war of words to get there. I'm sure my attitude will annoy a few people but there's no point in pretending.

 

Ulitmately the solution I seek is a 12 month backdated bill, as HP Mum got.

 

I would like to know more about the Ombudsman 9 month thing, can anyone supply more info or a rough summary of what it means and if it is applicable in this case ?

[HP Mum]

hi

Bottom line is that the billing code of practice (google it) prevents them from back-dating the bill further than one year for domestic customers.

If they have not visited the property to read the meters in an 18months-2yrs period they are deemed to be irresponsible suppliers. They can not charge you for 6yrs.

 

You should yourself take 2 readings over a reasonable period to gauge your normal consumption. If you have a reading 12m before the recent dispute you this. If not, then the most recent readings.

I would write - very simply and concisely - to advise them of the billing code of practice, that you are offering them 2 readings which you have taken over a period of time, that this reflects your normal consumption over whatever period you have recorded, that over a 12m period it equates to whatever you calculate (using their unit rates/£), and that you will now offer them that figure on a 12m repayment scheme. You should also dictate that they now read your meter on a quarterly basis and you will pay only after receiving future bills. (They will try to get you to set up a direct debit to cover the old debt and your potential consumption too - don't allow this; set up a bank transfer to handle the old monthly payments yourself).

 

In my case, the property concerned was rented on and off during the whole period. They had no details on the tenants and I was not obliged to hand over these details, even if I had them. With no proof of my consumption other than my own readings over a 6m period they eventually agreed a sum of less than £500 payable over 12m.

Maybe your property was rented out during the 6yrs too

I suspect that a similar result could be achieved by yourself.

Good luck.

And do not be tempted to call them any more.

Everything in writing...

[citydweller]

Thankyou for your excellent response I can easily sort two readings out, I have one from when the bill came and then I can take another tonight.

 

Yes I have read through the billing code, its been very useful and hence why Im disputing the bill really.

 

I have a couple of questions Im afraid !

 

Do I need to contact the ombudsman ? I dont really understand what they are or what they do ?

 

If they have not visited the property to read the meters in an 18months-2yrs period they are deemed to be irresponsible suppliers.

 

Where does this come from ? its a bit different to anything written in the billing code ?

 

I/we are tenants, the landlord (or rather his agent) has responded to Eon with the only two contracts that have ever been produced for the house, which has about 8 names on it, I got sent a copy of his response. There are no forwarding addresses available for them, I could get in touch with some of them but not all of them. Can the landlord be held responsible for any of the outstanding balance ? *note I do not want this to happen.

 

I'll be writing yet another letter tonight by the sounds of it

[HP Mum]

I would forget about contracts they may or may not have. 8+ names is irrelevant.

I would deal with it, initially, as if you are the only concerned party. The 8+ names could be tenants/lodgers etc. It is not your job,or worth your time, to locate tenants. They are just fishing for info.

 

You are only liable for the last 12m. Do not let them pressure you in to giving any information. Keep your letters simple.

Like,

I have only been permanently resident in the property since x date (like 14m ago) and, as per the billing code, I am only liable for the last 12m, from x to y date. I have no knowledge of any other tenants who may have occupied the property. Here are my readings. I wait to hear back from you. expand it a bit, but that is the gist of it. Wait to see what kind of flowery missing the point kind of letter you get back from them.

 

There is a passage somewhere about suppliers having to read the meters regularly. It might be on the Ombudsmen website/consumer direct website. If I find it I will let you know.

[lordcrocket]

hello i like reading some threads i had a letter from n power about there right to enter my home

 

well it's not my home it's rented 2nd the letter was not even a warrant and the third not even in my name

 

i wrote them a letter recently to ask them i do not want there services as they was only a energy supplier and not the owner as i only want to deal with the owner directly and when they find out who it is to let me know well i have been living here now from august this year and waiting for there more letters to arrive and the owners response by law .

[HP Mum]

"The Code includes a requirement for consumers to be protected from debt where the supplier is at fault for not billing energy supply. Where the supplier is at fault, consumers cannot be back-billed beyond 12 months from the date on any subsequent bill." from the energy retail association website.

 

If your supplier is at fault, and you do not receive a bill for more than two years, then

from July 2006 any outstanding debt that relates to energy consumed more than two

years ago will be cancelled. From July 2007, this will reduce to one year.

[pelham9]

Where the supplier is at fault, consumers cannot be back-billed beyond 12 months from the date on any subsequent bill."

 

Isn't the supplier always at fault?

 

They have made a contract with a distibutor to take supplies through a particular meter at a given address. They then bill the occupier for this supply. It is up to them to make the proper checks otherwise there will be problems

 

a) is the meter number correct?.

b) is the address correct?

c) who is the occupier?

d) has the database got the correct information

 

b) is particularly importaant for newbuilds where the correct postal address has not yet replaced a 'site' address. They should also be responsible for checking that the meter does indeed supply a given address

 

To do these checks requires effort and costs. It may even require a site visit which utilities appear to abhor. In particular it requires accurate databases and properly trained staff to enter data. Intead of doing these checks they rely on builders, agents, the distibuter and finally the customer all of which they will blame if their information is defective.

 

Every problem with lack of meter readings and bills is clearly a fault in the checking of the above and can be nobody's fault other than the utility.

 

There appears to be no checking within the database and computers. The database if the data has been correctly imputted has the meter number. How can it be that the computer does not flag up a no meter reading situation? How can it be that the computer sends no bills for that meter and does not inform anyone of this?.

 

If there is a wrong address the computer should be able to flag this by comparing with the Royal Mail database. What happens to mail returned 'no such address' or 'not at this address' - my impression from my own experience is that it gets binned and no action is taken. When I rang to introduce myself and give a reading to British Gas I was told that there was no such address and nothing could be done about it!!

 

The utilities try to blame the occupier for not informing them of their occupation. It is not the responsibilty of customers to do this - but is is basic common sense that a utility supplier should be resposnsible to find out. They should have sytems in place to do this at reasonable intervals -say six monthly.

 

I can think of no scenario where it is not the utiltity's fault if meter readings are not taken and/or bills not sent. Anybody disagee?

[HP Mum]

Unfortunately so - If you are a business