£10,000 Electric bill for 8 years

[Bookworm]

Hear hear.

[Clare_L]

Pelham, again, I am in agreement with you and as an employee find it extremely frustrating when there is little that i can do other than get the customer to run the relevant tests that I have had to take upon myself to work out from experience. The results I then have, I pass on, but once I have passed that on I am not allowed to follow up to see if it has been resolved as I am there to take calls only. The first people you all speak to are glorified receptionists who will forward all info or calls to the relevant department. Admittedly, not all call centre staff are clued up (had my own experience today where I had to call in to work to get my tariff changed and had to talk the guy through how to do the simplist of jobs after he told me I would need a meter exchange to come off E7!!!) I find that discouraging and can see why people on here get upset and angry and refer to call centre staff as monkeys.

[zazen.warrior]

As a point of interest EDF insisted that I change my meter when I came off E7. I had been on a different tariff via an E7 meter for years with Eon, but EDFs’ position was that without a meter change I would have to be on E7.

 

I pointed out this had not been the case with Eon but they advised me quite sharply that they were not Eon and other suppliers do things differently.

[Clare_L]

Its wrong though as I barely use electricity at night during the summer so shouldnt have to pay a premium for my day usage. I pointed this out to them. In the end he got his manager for me, even though I hadnt requested it, who said it was not a problem. Incidently I also work for and supplied by eon so knew they were able to do it, but the frustration was that I had to talk him through the screen over the phone. How many people had he turned around and said no to previously?!?!?!

 

I know with EDF they had/have an E7 tariff that meant you had to have one of their own meters installed, and if you wanted to change supplier you would have to have it removed and would be charged £50 for this.

[ozzywizard]

Yeah its unreal, gawwwdd help him if he got an economy 10 customer with heatwise haha.

[Clare_L]

dupe post

Edited July 25, 2009 by Clare_L
duplicate post

[mattlamb]

Clare, just shows how inconsistent the advice is (not just from EON. I read for many companies - although being based in East Anglia, EON is the dominant supplier for electic). In my work as a meter reader, I come across plenty of customers that have a meter with two readings but being billed on single rate prices. It can be done quite simply - if the employees know what they are doing! Indeed, it makes sense to have a meter with two readings because if the customers circumstances change or someojne else moves in, E7 may then be the best tariff and having this kind of meter installed already means the supplier does not have the extra expense of going out to fit an E7 friendly meter.

 

In response to the OP (God, they seem remote - this thread seems to have rather gone off the subject!), I think the best solution is that suppliers should physically go around to a property to disconnect the supply when someone leaves (I believe they did this in the distant past). Would get rid of any disputes - to obtain elecric supply (or gas, for that matter) the new occupier would have to then contact the supplier (or perhaps some kind of company that deals with the supply network) to reconnect the power. Of course, this would rely on an efficient and accurate database to be in place so that people knew who the previous supplier at a particular address was. Oh well, here's hoping for some kind of utopia...

 

I still stand by my previous threads though. The OP has clearly made virtually no effort to inform anyone that they are living at an address and are using electric. They should not be allowed to take advantage of the system. Granted, the systems in place should be more effective - I do not dispute that. However, the OP has admitted quite openly that they have taken advantage of the system and yet have pleaded that their bill should only be backdated for the last year! This is, I feel, absolutely non-sensical and should not be allowed. I am not saying they should be forced to pay the arrears in one go - a long-term payment arrangement should be negotiated. But they should have to pay for what they have used!

There is no inkling that the customer is vulnerable in any way = they have just taken advantage of the situation.

 

Maybe I am getting on my soapbox here, but Great Brirtain as a nation seems to have lost amy understanding of the notion of common sense. Someone uses electric (or any other kind of good), they should pay for that usage. The suppliers do not help the situation by appearing to be remote, ie: targets set to answer so amny queries within a set time period, who cares how accurate the answers are? - lets get the customer off the phone as quickly as we can ( I sincerely hope my supplier Ebico are an exception to this mantra). However, that does not invalidate the main point.

I struggle to pay my bills. I do manage but I don't earn wads of money. I am not some kind of privileged individual that can feel smug enough to declare that I can not get paid by my employer for six months or so and yet still pay all my bills (ie: some kind of "liberal" Guardian reader). I do sympathise with people that have been genuinely let down by the systems and hopefullly, some comments I make (when i have the knowledge required) can help them in getting advice that will really help them. However, I do not want to help people that are clearly abusing the system. The OP was quite clear in the fact they had been abusing the system, yet then asked for help in trying to manipulate the system so they only had to pay one years worth of charges!!! They should not be entertained in my opinion.

[mattlamb]

I don't want to sound like a long -playing record but I do want to make my point here!

Pelham definitely has some valid points. In particular, he/she seems to have done all they can to resolve the situation, unlike the original poster. There has to come a point when no more! That is totally different sitauation to that outlined by the original OP. That should not be emphasised enough!

It is not an us against them situaton. It is the right thing to do. This is such an important point but virtually no-one seems to bear this in mind!!

I just hoipe the courts still have the sense to bear this in mind -0 assumint his case goes to that stage...

[Clare_L]

Mattlamb, I can understand some of the points you make too, and being on the other end of the phone taking calls every day from people who are desperately trying to pay their bills and struggling and those that dont bother and then want the amount to be written off and get away with it, I get that and how wrong that is to try and wriggle out of it . But as Pelham says, if the systems were in place then all this could be avoided. Its not right that someone should get that amount of fuel free, that is pretty outrageous to even expect it, and I doubt very much he will have to pay all of it, but will have to pay a fair amount. There are people out there who have a conscience and will keep on trying to find out who is supplying and maybe even putting some money aside knowing that sooner or later, they WILL catch up with you.

[mattlamb]

Thanks Clare. You are right - I know that some people worry so much about what will happen to them if they don't pay the bills. A cursory glance at some threads on this website will show this to be true. My job demonstrates how some people worry about this -even though it is quite clear to me they are being overcharged. I just wish the electic suppliers between them could sort out a system to clamp down on freeloaders and in addition support those who genuinely need the help. Its the all right Jack sociey we live in, unfortunately.

[mattlamb]

I would also advise anyone with an E10 meter to keep a close eye on their bill. It is impossible for us meter readers to tell which reading is which on the machines when we enter the readings after inspecting the meter. The 3rs reading should be Ok, but it is quite likely that the other two readings have been mixed up in my experience. We never know which way round those readings have initially been entered on the computer records.

 

A pity really -= cos E10 is theory an excellent tariff to be on if you have electric storage heaters. Pity only EOn amonst the main suppliers seem to recognise the tariff.....

[Surfer01]

Pelham, I agree, the system is unfair, particularly to those who live in new build properties and have attempted to find out who is supplying their fuel to no avail. I am not by no means making an excuse for the suppliers because I am an employee, but imagine this. A builder gives you a stack of papers, one with meter serial numbers, one with address's and plot numbers, then drops the stack, shoves them all together and hands them over. I see this on a daily basis, people calling in trying to find out who their supplier is, not always having the right info ie not knowing what the plot number is of their property, not knowing what their meter serial number is and then failing to call back as promised really doesnt help. As a supplier, we need the customer to give as much information as they can. IF the supplier can still not be found then unfortunately it takes time to investigate, not 8 years I grant you and it takes someone to keep coming back and harrassing the supplier to investigate for anything to be done. But it works both ways if someone does honestly want to pay their bill, and if the case is that someone does not call back with the relevant information, remember we are not mind readers, it will not get followed up until maybe a change of meter reading agent. the Billing Code of Practice IS there to protect people and does on a daily basis, but will not help those who sit back and do nothing about it until the bill drops through their door.

As a supplier, we along with all other suppliers were sent a notification about new builds and then each energy supplier could put an offer in to install new metering. It was the up to the developer to accept our quote or not. This would then effectively lock in the metering to our company until the premsies were occupied. In the meantime all charges would eb passed to the developer. We found this to be effective and simple so I do not understand how metering can go missing. Our worst nightmare as an independent supplier was requesting EMEB MOPs to install metering as invariably they would mess up and leave it to us to sort out but either way we still had records

[Bookworm]

Clare, just shows how inconsistent the advice is etc...

But you still haven't said why you feel that it is wrong for the customer to get away with his outrageous behaviour and why it is right for the company to get away with their outrageaous behaviour. If you want to define things by a right or wrong approach, then you have to be consistant.

 

I mean, you are taking a moral stance when it is simply not realistic: What if OP instead of being upfront with us, said that he had spent umpteen amount of times on hold trying to contact the company, written over and over again and been ignored and finally gave up in despair? Would that then be ok with you? What's the difference?

 

The code and the law are there for a reason: to stop companies which already have the upper hand to take undue advantage of the consumers. The code had to be brought in due to abuse of the companies, not of the consumers and to force them to get their house in order. If they still can't manage this, then that's their tough luck.

 

On a different note, I agree that if meters were to get turned off when a person leaves and turned back on when new ones arrive, it would make things a lot simpler. That's how it is in France, and until your power has been restored, then you don't have power and that's that. Avoids all kind of complications. ;-)

[pelham9]

On a different note, I agree that if meters were to get turned off when a person leaves and turned back on when new ones arrive, it would make things a lot simpler

.

 

This always was the case in this country too.

 

To do things in a sensible way is fairly expensive. The utilities would again have to arrange for people to be available to got to properties probably twice to get old and new readings and switch off an on. This would entail keeping appointments!! or even an emergency switch on service. We could have proper written contracts instead of nebulous deemed contracts.

 

To save money they have stopped doing this and say that this is a benefit to customers - ' you can rely on utility services as soon as you move in'. It must be that they save more money by not providing this simple service as against the money they lose under the billing code. So when they changed the system they would have already costed in the loss on this OP's account.

 

There is one other point. Those moving in especially to first properties often do not know that it is imperative to read meters and confirm the occupation to the utilities. Many all their lives have simply turned on a switch or turned a tap and just do not know the responsibilities that our utilities place on them. No wonder many get it wrong.

[Bookworm]

Your second paragraph is very cynical, but very likely spot on. :-|

[Surfer01]

Even prior to working in the utilities it was common sense for us to read the meter on leaving a property and on taking possesion of another. After all, electgric and gas is not free. It is my opinion, that some people bury their heads and hope that they will never get a bill but when they do and it is high, they start screaming, however by the same token utility companies should be monitoring usage a lot closer. The way around this is to have a SMART meter fitted which always shows the utility exactly how much power you are using!

[mattlamb]

Yeah, but a SMART meter won't tell the supplier who the consumer is (which is one of the root problems in this thread).

[Surfer01]

If you contact any supplier, they will become your supplier and fit a SMART meter. The point is that they will know your reading on the date you left the premises as they will have a record of the reading on that date eve if you don't tell them when you leave. that is why it si called a SMART meter.

[mattlamb]

How will they know the reading on the date a consumer left if they don't know the date the consumer left? It can only tell the supplier information about the meter, not information about the customer (well, I'm assuming that is the case anyway - and as with any machine - rubbish (information) in, rubbish (information) out). I am suspicious about SMART meters becasue in my view it will mean electric suppliers will become ever more complacent and think that the technology can get them out of trouble. And it seems judging by some threads I've seen on this website that electric suppliers still set incorrect prices on keymeters (which are a type of SMART meter in a way) and seem incapable of solving the problem without a whole lot of hassle on the customer's part.

[Surfer01]

Smart meters and Smartmetering are two totally different meters and are not related at all except for reads. If olyu leave a premise and only notify the supplier several months later of the date, they will be able to give you the read on that day. SMART meters use digital technology like a mobile phone to send a data package to a supplier once a month . This will show the consumption for each day at a specific time which is why they can tell what the reading was on a specific day.

[mattlamb]

That's not bad. I'm impressed!

[pelham9]

even if they are only estimates

,

 

How can estimates prove that electricity has been used?

[mattlamb]

And the OP has not added anything to the thread ever since their original post! Even before I started contributing to the thread (and that some way in).

I will stress that the OP has only ever made contact with their supplier once SEVERAL YEARS after they moved in. And that was only ringing an automated telephone line to give the supplier their reading after getting a call-back card put through their letterbox. They did not give the supplier their name or details of when they moved in - the original post makes this clear. The OP wonders how the supplier got hold of their name. I would suggest some p*ss*d off neighbour or local in the pub gave the supplier the details (after no doubt hearing the OP's witty story about getting away with not paying anything for their electric). I would also add that the OP has stated the actual meter reading is less than what the supplier has billed for. So the estimate is in the OP's favour! Stands to reason - if you are not paying any bills, you are probably very slap-dash with how much electric you are using. £10 000 seems an awful lot of money but if you don't have to pay for your usage, you will use your electric as much (and more) as you want.

Edited July 29, 2009 by mattlamb

[mattlamb]

I stand corrected - the OP did add one further post.

And it would appear that the neighbour has given a representative of the supplier the OP's name, although the neighbour is denying they did this.

[mattlamb]

So in response to Bookworm's post - the supplier is perfectly entitled to send the OP a bill, estimated or not. That is all they have done - so far.

If the OP does not respond, they are quite entitled to send further letters or even apply to the courts for a warrant (at the OP's expense) to get access in order to read the meter or disconnect the electric. The estimated bill only takes account for the period from when the OP phoned in the reading up until the current time (the OP has outlined this).

The supplier has been slap-dash in finding out if anyone was living at the address and using electricity. I don't think anyone can dispute this. However, that is all they have done wrong. What is this nonsense about it being immoral to send a bill to the OP? The supplier are, belatedly, doing their job!!!!

Edited July 29, 2009 by mattlamb