Very strange behaviour from MBNA

[Coactum]

Ah, but they know I have no money and so cannot accept their offer, whereas they think you have a hidden stash and so you might actually pay up!

 

Joking apart who knows why they do what they do. If I recall correctly you are abroad and so perhaps that has something to do with it.

[exchange]

Petition to: Request a special investigation by the FSA and OFT into the harrassment by consumers and their families through the debt collection practices of MBNA and specifically the practices related to telephone calls and defaults while in dispute

 

Hi Coactum, link for a petition started by mauricetura. Sure you will sign like me. I am spreading this onto MBNA threads and have started my own thread to advertise this.

[Coactum]

Alread involved

[Coactum]

Look at this farcical email I just received:

 

Trust me it can default and it will default this month unless we get a payment. We cannot stop this unless we get a resolve and payments.

 

Its totally up to you as we cannot force you to pay but I would strongly suggest you think about the Settlement option

 

I have also emailed the relevant area regards your copy of Terms and conditions

 

I replied

 

Trust me you cannot default my accounts.

 

Clearly you need to read up on Consumer Credit Law.

 

I made a valid CCA request on 2nd April. As such MBNA had until 16th April to respond. They failed to respond. I reminded MBNA in a letter of 21st April and this too was ignored by your company.

 

Not only was non compliance with that request a criminal offence but you are now about to compound matters by attempting to default the contract.

 

It is MBNA who are in default and fully responsible for the current dispute. While an account remains in dispute it cannot be defaulted.

 

And he replied

 

as I said its up to you totally but a default will be issued on the last day of this month. If you are interested in avoiding this and looking at the Settlement email us back. When its in dispute you still need to maintain payments which have not been done.

 

To which I responded

 

Now you are really making me laugh but seriously someone in your role should be better acquainted with consumer credit laws.

 

Let me explain in layman’s terms so that you might manage to follow. I have requested sight of a properly executed Consumer Credit Agreement between MBNA and myself which has not been provided. The absence of a properly executed agreement implies that any agreement falls out with the Consumer Credit Act rendering it unenforceable and therefore you have nothing to default. Only when you are able to provide the proper contract and terms can I fully ascertain the true extent of my debts, if any, to MBNA. Until my request has been satisfied the account is in dispute and cannot be defaulted

 

I think you had better get your books out and do a spot of studying before you send me any further emails. I suggest you pay particular attention to s127 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

[Coactum]

He replied again stating:

 

we are only going around in circles here. I will get on to the relevant areas about this and monitor your account for start of August

 

I guess by this he is actually going to request that I get a copy of my agreement.

[Coactum]

MBNA have chosen to leave my SAR to the very last minute. Today I have received some data from them which IMO falls far short of my expectations.

 

The first note is that this only relates to one of my cards not both!

 

Beginning with letters I have written to them they have attached some but certainly not all, however, among the letters attached is the one where I made my CCA request and this is stamped as received on 6th April. However, the request was ignored hence my follow up SAR. The also show their short settlement letter, the one offering 30% but none of the others. How can so many letters, both mine and theirs, be missing from their data repository?

 

Looking at the financial transactions I note that these begin in July 02 and carry forward to the present day, however, the copy of the application form also attached shows it was signed back in 1999. How can I verify the account if three years of data are missing?

 

Finally when I look at the alleged agreement I see it is nothing more than an application form which would not comply as a valid Regulated Agreement because; it has not been signed by as accepted by MBNA, the terms are not contained within the page signed by me (they are on the reverse of the document), the interest rates are only stated on the reverse side of the application form.

 

I noticed on the financial statement that Late Fees were originally charged at £20, then £25 but next they dropped to £12. Does anyone know why they reduced this charge? I know about the high court ruling and therefore they might have reduced it to fall in line but the value charged still exceeds that suggested which I think was circa £7. Can anyone confirm this?

 

I want to formulate a reply ASAP so if you could please give your comments it would be much appreciated.

[Coactum]

Here is the copy of the application they sent me with details blancked out.

[Coactum]

I had a phone call from MBNA this morning advising me that the account was about to default, strange this is that I checked my credit file yesterday and it was already showing the default!

 

I explained to the girl calling that as they had failed to give satisfactory proof of the existence of a valid contract that my account was in dispute and as such could not be defaulted.

 

She insisted it would and that it would be sold on to a third party.

 

I suggested she should be better acquainted with Consumer Credit law and she chose to hang up.

 

Having discovered the defaults I have started another thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/211255-removing-default-notices-credit.html and would appreciate your feedback.

[griffin036]

Re post #57 if that is all they have sent, it is unenforceable - UNLESS they included a copy of the reverse containing the prescribed terms.

One of my accounts has been sold to Direct Legal and has been given a different account number, so I do not know which account it is! LOL

Guess I'll be getting a letter off them shortly.

[Coactum]

Hi griffin036, yes they also included the reverse with T&C's but I thought all had to be contained within the four corners of the page you sign and so as this is the page I signed it is the only bit that is relevant. Have I missed something?

[Coactum]

I have just done some number crunching based on the transaction report that they sent to me. The bottom line according to their statement is just over £9.5K but they have only supplied data going back to 2002 and not 1999 when the application was made. The sum of fees and interest amounts to nearly £8k and so if the agreement is unenforceable and unregulated I would guess that at best circa £1,581 is all that could be claimed. If I were able to go back further they might end up owing me, but I suspect that if I were to take them to court that I could only go back 5 years (Scottish limit). If I adjust the numbers to reflect only the past 5 years then I would owe them an extra £2K but I think that works both ways and so if they could not pursue anything older than 5 years ago they would end up owing me.

 

What is also interesting is looking at my statements in 2004 I can see that despite Late Payment Fees being applied they still increased my limit. E.g. Limit £7,700 balance £5,175 available £2,525, next month a payment had been made albeit late so a £25 late fee applied, no new transactions but limit now £8,900. No wonder the banks got into trouble. Playing devil’s advocate here I would have thought that it was inappropriate to increase a limit when a customer was paying late. Then again I suspect it suited them as they earned more fees that way.

[Hussy786]

Hi

They have not send me CCA request instead they call me 3 times a day and now i dont answer their calls. They also putting marks on \My credit file every week?

What should I do at this stage?

can you paste subject access template here please.

[AA99]

Hussy, use this

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/52-harassment/135--harassment-by-telephone-response-letter-

[griffin036]

Well, as far as know - "within the four corners" of the signed document means the reverse as well. Providing of course the reverse contains the prescribed terms. Might be worth your while uploading a scan of the reverse for a second opinion as to the "wholes" enforceability.

[Coactum]

Hussy786, I added my version on SAR here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/204839-band-together-against-them-8.html#post2321415

 

Griffin036, here is the reverse side of the MBNA application form:

 

[Coactum]

If you look at this thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/162851-consumer-credit-agreements-guide.html#post1747470 the MBNA application forms displayed bear a striking similarity to mine. steven4064 includes this agreement in his unenforceable not properly executed batch but fails to say precisely why he considers that to be so.

[Coactum]

Here is a close up of the conditions on the reverse:

 

[Coactum]

And to help flipping pages here is the front again:

 

[Deb T]

Playing devil’s advocate here I would have thought that it was inappropriate to increase a limit when a customer was paying late. Then again I suspect it suited them as they earned more fees that way.

 

 

I always assumed that when they did this when you were having difficulty was so that the limit wasn't reached which then enabled them to add fees/charges without the fear of having the account defaulted under the terms of the CCA when going over your limit etc... I guess I'm talking pants mind.

[griffin036]

Hmmm, appears to be inorder to me. The only thing is that there is a legibility issue, and it would appear to be a microfiche copy, so does the original exist? If it came to court would a front and back copy be enough to convince the judge?

[underdog13]

It refers you to terms contained in another document - the T&Cs - not allowed:D

 

Do you know what your original credt limit was? If it wasn't 1k, 3k or 5k as in the box, they may just be in trouble.....

[Coactum]

underdog13, I do not recall what my origilnal limit was but I'd lay bets it was not a round number like the 1, 3 or 5K specified. I will have statements in my archive going back to the beginning and will look them out to see.

 

griffin036, you say this looks OK yet as mentioned earlier steven4064 thought a similar document did not comply. I think the difference might lie in the opinion that all must be in one page meaning one side of a page or as in your view both sides. Can someone please clarify?

[Coactum]

The original limit was £4,400

[underdog13]

The original limit was £4,400

 

So how is the layperson to know which of the quoted interest rates applies to their account? It could be those under 3k or 5k - haven't made it at all clear have they?

 

That gives you another bit of ammo to lob their way:D

[Coactum]

I can see where you are coming from but do you not think that the response will simpby be any reasonable minded person would take it that this related to transactions up to £1k, then £1-3k, £3-5K and over £5k