Dispute with Ebay Buyer over a Vehicle

[monstertruckmonkey]

Hi everyone,

I'm in need of a bit of advice, I listed my car on ebay with the following description

"

2001 Vauxhall Vectra Estate in Silver

this is a 1.8l petrol model which means it's quite ecconomical to drive

88,000 Electric front windows, CD player, power steering, ABS, Adjustable seats, Adjustable steering column/wheel, Driver airbag, the bodywork on the car in is good condition for its age.

The car has 3 months Tax and 5 months MOT left.

I believe in being completely honest and disclosing all minor problems the car has an intermittent immobiliser fault which shouldn't be too hard to rectify this means that the car will sometimes take a couple of trys to get it started. And the light is on for the brake pads but i have had the car checked at vauxhall and the brakes are fine there is a fault with the sensor (common problem)."

 

The description acknowledges that there is a fault with the car.

 

The buyer did not inspect the car before bidding on it the end of the auction, the buyer started and stopped the car half a dozen times before driving it off.

 

1 week later i begin to get messages from him that he is not happy with the car and wanted a refund. I refused his request.

 

The buyer then sent me an email with the following post which i had submitted to a forum"Mon 23 Feb 09 21:58

01 1.8 intermittent starting fault - [EDIT] I'm having a nightmare with my vectra it has an intermittent fault on starting, sometimes it will start no problem othertimes it will turn over then flash up the car spanner light indicating an immobiliser fault i've had the imobiliser ecu changed but it is no better. When my brother uses the car there doesn't seem to be a problem when i use it it leaves me stranded in all sorts of places refusing to start. The only suggections that i've had suggest changing the ECU, but i have also been told that you cannot fit a second hand unit. Any suggestions welcomed. Thanks Hayley Last edited by: Pugugly on Mon 23 Feb 09 at 22:52

 

[EDIT]

Tue 24 Feb 09 09:42

01 1.8 intermittent starting fault - [EDIT] >> When my brother uses the car ....

 

Are you both using the same key, or do you both have your own? If the latter, try using your brothers key to see if the fault still occurs.

[EDIT]

Tue 24 Feb 09 14:41

 

01 1.8 intermittent starting fault - [EDIT] we've tried both keys, and now are just using the one key but there is no improvement sometimes it starts fine other times it will start run for a couple of seconds and other times just turn over and not fire up ie immobiliser problem. Its so unreliable and frustrating it's killing me

[EDIT}

 

 

I replied to him with details from the email i had sent to ebay regarding the matter and said that i had not misdescribed the car and it was sold with a fault.

 

His latest reply threatens court action

"I too have sought advice from two solicitors that i do works for and shown them your listing and your plea to the technical forum and they agree with me that your listing on ebay was not honest and was contradictory to the plea you posted. your listing should have mentioned the fact that when the car is warmed up there is no way it will start again till its cooled down. and that its a £750 repair bill using vauxhall parts or a £400 repair bill using a full ecu replacement from ebay. this in my opinion is an uneconomical repair given the state of the vehicle and im sure you looked at the avenues of repair before placing the car on ebay and in my opinion that is dishonest and deceitful of you to place the item on ebay without giving the potential buyer the full facts, starting the car several times when cold as i did would not affect or bring the problem to light as the car needs to be warmed before the problem occurs, which im sure you knew that, as you had owned the car for a few months before placing on ebay. i could see by the state and dirt and bird excrement on the vehicle that you had not used it for some time, this suggests to me that you had had enough of it and decided to deceive an ebay buyer.

I can now go ahead and take this matter further which i fully intend to do so unless you take the vehicle back or make a contribution to the repair. if i have to appear in court i will request that you take the vehicle back and compensate me for loss of earnings and whatever other expenses i have (court fees etc.)."

 

Please help I'm sure i'm in the right as i declared there was a problem, he bid on the car knowing this and if he was unsure about it he should not have bid in the first place. The car sold for £820 which is 50% of what it would have been worth with no fault which i feel is more than enough compensation for it's problems.

 

 

Thanks

Edited June 7, 2009 by Rooster-UK
Links removed.

[hightail]

The buyer did not inspect the car before bidding on it the end of the auction, the buyer started and stopped the car half a dozen times before driving it off.

 

Did the buyer have the opportunity to inspect and test drive the car before paying for it? Although this was sold through ebay it's usually no different to any other private sale. It's not like selling small items which are then sent out after payment is received.

 

How did the buyer pay? This is important.

[monstertruckmonkey]

He paid in cash. He paid after the auction ended, he came to collect the car and inspected it for about 15-20 mins, and he started and stopped the car 5-6 times. we signed the documents over then he paid

[hightail]

OK that's good. I'm hearing tales of people accepting Paypal for goods collected in person which is a real no no.

 

From what you have said this is no different than if you had advertised it in the local rag. He came, he saw, he had every opportunity to check whatever he wanted, he was satisfied and he paid.

[monstertruckmonkey]

so what do i need to do about his threats to take me to court?

[hightail]

Nothing, so far they are only threats. You should only react if he does start a claim through the courts. Your description mentioned an intermittent immobiliser fault and that's what he's moaning about even though he had been informed of it and had every chance to inspect and test the car with that knowledge. He's complaining about a fault you made clear prior to his inspection.

 

The only thing you can do is wait and see if he does take it further.

[Bookworm]

I wouldn't agree with "nothing". If you don't answer, he might think he'll have an easy victory in court, so you want to nip that in the bud.

 

I'd reply saying something on the lines of:

 

"Very sorry you feel this way, however the listing stated that there was a fault, you knew of it, you tried out the car and bought it afterwards. The law is quite clear that in cases of private to private transactions, my sole responsability is to ensure that the goods are "as described" and I did precisely that. If you had any queries or worries, you had ample opportunity to discuss them with me both during the listing and when you came to try out and collect the car and didn't do so. It seems indeed strange that you were able to find the information so quickly on the xxx forum after the event and yet not before, and in fact despite the fact I had listed the fault, saw no need to ask me questions about it? In any event, "Caveat Emptor" applies.

 

Should you wish to pursue this into court, please be aware that I will vigorously defend this claim and will make the courts aware of your unreasonable and vexatious behaviour. I am not willing to enter into further correspondence in the matter and expect you to desist from contacting me again unless the correspondence is in the form of an N1.

 

 

Yours, etc..."

 

(Caveat emptor: let the buyer beware.

N1: Court claim form.)

 

Good luck, let us know what happens.

[hightail]

A final letter telling him you consider the matter closed is a good idea though where I do agree with telling companies to put up or shut up I'm never sure it's such a good idea with angry individuals. I do wonder whether it sort of goads them into taking it further when they wouldn't have done otherwise.

[Bookworm]

True, up to a point. Showing them that you know more law than they do and that you won't be an easy mark can also work wonders. ;-) Swings and roundabouts, really.

[monstertruckmonkey]

Thanks guys,

I've sent him an email saying that i intend to defend any claim he puts in and we'll see what happens next

[hunterandthehunted]

what are ebay doing about this?

if you are getting harrassed by this person just because they are unhappy

with the sale, ebay should be stepping in, should'nt they?

 

as the experts have said, he had every opputunity to walk away with his

money...

 

report him to ebay, make them earn their fees...

[monstertruckmonkey]

I have contacted ebay and thay have said they do not get involved in individual disputes.

But they did say that i was in the right for disclosing the fault

[hunterandthehunted]

well i would'nt worry to much, it seems you sold the car in good faith

and the chances are that the buyer is trying it on.

 

at least you are armed with bookworms letter in post 7.

 

another point is that it seems the buyer and company are using the car

anyway so its not going to be in the condition you sold it in, is it?

[monstertruckmonkey]

See Below the 3 responses i received from him

 

 

Dear XXXXXX

 

I thank you for your prompt reply, and your refusal to accept that you deceived me and other ebay users. I can not take this matter further.

 

yours

ps

does deceit come into this caveat emptor ruling? maybe you should look up the word pristine. seems you know your latin but not your english.

and i think im entitled to reply to your query that you found it strange that i found your posting to the forum (im pleased you've admitted it was you, saves me allot of investigation). the reason i looked and enquired on the internet was to try and resolve the problem and find out if it was a common thing with this model/make as id only driven the car home after buying from you and it would not restart after leaving for five minutes and you would not answer your telephone or reply to my texts, that in my opinion is guilt on your part knowing you had deceived me.

 

hi

sorry the email i sent to you at 18.16 on the 8/6/2009 should have read "i can NOW take this matter further".

 

should i be worried?

Edited June 9, 2009 by monstertruckmonkey

[Bookworm]

1 - edit your post, you have left your real name on it.

2 - Where does it say "pristine" in the listing? I can't see it.

3 - You can be worried if you like, but it won't make a bit of difference. Either he thinks he's got a case and will pursue it, or he is bluffing and won't, but worrying about it won't make a blind bit of difference. Me, I wouldn't reply since you have said you won't enter into further correspondence... Answering him means that you're still letting him get under your skin.

 

If he DOES take you to court, he is a fool, IMO. Caveat emptor is very powerful indeed in this type of cases: You disclosed the fault, he chose not to query it further at the point of purchase, that's his problem. As I said before, your sole responsability as a private seller is for the goods to be as described. You described the car as having an intermittent fault, and it does. If he were to go to court, this would be your defense, and that's that, really.

[monstertruckmonkey]

the pristine reference is to the rear seats he asked what the interior was like i said the rear seats had hardly been used and were almost pristine

ie no marks or tears. He did also ask me about the fault on th car and i said it usually starts after a couple of tries, which it did when i had it.

[Bookworm]

Well, there you go then. I think he's just fishing tbh, but of course, you can't be sure. Anyway, as I said, not a lot you can do now unless you want to cave in when you know you're in the right? Up to you really, IMO you have covered yourself and he hasn't got a hope, but the ultimate decision is yours.

[kabukiman]

The Op stated in his description "which shouldn't be too hard to rectify", unless you know exactly where the problem stems from sometimes it's best to have left that part out.

Could be the ECU, the immobiliser or both and the cost mounts up which the buyer probably has found out by now.

[hunterandthehunted]

just relax,

bookworm has armed you with all the knowledge you need.

the buyer is just bitter and probably more angry with him self more than anything. of course he is going to ask for his money back, ( who wouldnt ).

dont get caught up in a ping pong e-mail dispute.

is he really going to take you to court for £810?

you have got 2 choices mate and i know which one i would choose:D

[hightail]

the buyer is just bitter and probably more angry with him self more than anything

 

Oh yes!

 

If you have already stated that you consider the matter closed then don't answer any more emails. If you haven't already made it clear then send one more saying that you have no more to say. After that block his emails. He will continue to argue and vent while he can get a reaction out of you.

[Kraken1]

The Op stated in his description "which shouldn't be too hard to rectify", unless you know exactly where the problem stems from sometimes it's best to have left that part out.

Could be the ECU, the immobiliser or both and the cost mounts up which the buyer probably has found out by now.

 

Agreed, although there is a difference between whether something is hard to rectify, and easy but hugely expensive.

 

is he really going to take you to court for £810?

 

I reckon yes. Small claims is really very easy and if you are confident you are going to win you can feel happy with suing for £30. Only issue is that if you do sue over £30 and lose then your costs are more than the claim. With £800 though the costs are only going to be a fraction. If I thought I had a solid case I would sue in a heartbeat.

 

That said, I wouldn't worry. I think you have a solid case if he does, and you need to hope that he takes some reasonable legal advice before doing anything daft. I would be inclined to ignore any future correspondence except for the following:

 

'I am able to acknowledge receipt of your letter/email/smoke signal/text message/telogram/fax/psychic projection but have nothing further to add to my previous correspondence on this matter. I would suggest that you seek further professional legal advice.'

 

You might have to send it a couple of times, but if they get the same letter a few times, no matter what they send it a) gets the message through and b) really really frustrates him.

[monstertruckmonkey]

Hi guys, thanks for all the responses I've sent the response that was suggested and he said he would see me in court but (hoping not to speak too soon) I've heard nothing yet