ACS:Law copyright file sharing claims, Gallant Macmillan - and probably some others along the way...

[Scooby Doo69]

This is all over BBC News atm with a big chunk about ACS towards the bottom. Interesting stuff. Pleases me to read that the UK music industry has distanced itself from firms like ACS, just mad that it is still allowed to be done here!

 

It will do until The SRA or similar acts as the chances of a case going to Court are minimal.

 

The are sailing very close to the wind, but according to them within the boundaries of English Civil Law.

[zero_flight]

Thanks for your reply

 

If you don't mind me asking, how long did it take for you to receive your letter (from ACS) after sending your 1st LOD? Are you now planning on sending a 2nd LOD?

 

It took approximately four weeks from me sending the first LOD to me receiving my second letter from ACS Law. I sent a second LOD off two weeks ago, as they were not prepared to except my first one.

[peter_piper316]

I sent my first LOD about 6 weeks ago... and still haven't had a response (I'm expecting the standard response saying they don't accept my LOD, upping the price, etc).

 

Is anyone else waiting for their second letter in response to their LOD?

 

Maybe I'm being paranoid but it seems everyone on here has had their second letter within 4 weeks, and I'm worried why I haven't (i.e, are they building a better case against me?).

[randomuser]

I sent my first LOD about 6 weeks ago... and still haven't had a response (I'm expecting the standard response saying they don't accept my LOD, upping the price, etc).

 

Is anyone else waiting for their second letter in response to their LOD?

 

Maybe I'm being paranoid but it seems everyone on here has had their second letter within 4 weeks, and I'm worried why I haven't (i.e, are they building a better case against me?).

Don't let yourself worry like that. There could be many reasons why you haven't received another one. Maybe they got scared by your first LOD! lol If nothing comes, it's a good thing dude!

[andydd]

It will do until The SRA or similar acts as the chances of a case going to Court are minimal.

 

The are sailing very close to the wind, but according to them within the boundaries of English Civil Law.

 

 

..and a similar company is being questioned now in the US

 

BBC News - US pirate hunters target movies

 

Andy

[cc2_2004]

From reading the posts, it seems anyone on Talk Talk or using PeerGuardian is ok.

Has anyone using either of these received a letter?

If ACS and their agents are just making IP numbers up the surely they must have sent some to people using PeerGuardian even if Talk Talk are refusing all their requests for information?

 

CC

[Scooby Doo69]

From reading the posts, it seems anyone on Talk Talk or using PeerGuardian is ok.

Has anyone using either of these received a letter?

If ACS and their agents are just making IP numbers up the surely they must have sent some to people using PeerGuardian even if Talk Talk are refusing all their requests for information?

 

CC

 

TalkTalk have said in public that they will fight any attempt to obtain their Customers account information, so ACS dropped them from The NPO court order. Why wouldn't they, as with the likes of Sky and BT willing to roll over, there are plenty of monies to hoover up already. Why run the risk of their evidence being torn to bits by those in the know?

 

PeerGuardian is a free to use program which when used with downloadable lists can block any number of IP addresses from potential snoopers such as ACS Law and those companies claimed to be involved in collating IP addresses. Of course, the down side is that the lists are public so all the likes of ACS have to do is to change their IP addresses so it's not on the list. If you can view whats on the list, so can they. It's been suggested that PG is only 2-5% effective and at the same time are probably blocking far more "good" IP addresses at the same time.

 

At the moment, to achieve anoymity the best way is to sign up to a VPN or a seed box. Like this forum though, neither way condones piracy and if you are caught by them doing it expect to be disconnected without refund.

[barkbeauty]

From reading the posts, it seems anyone on Talk Talk or using PeerGuardian is ok.

 

Talk Talk were required to hand over customer details by an NPO, they just refused to do so, cheerfully saying 'see you in court'. It's my understanding that this is why they haven't been part of the more recent NPOs.

 

Re: Peerguardian/peerblock

 

(I should note here that I'm not a technical expert in this area...)

 

Be careful. According to Peerblock's own FAQ, they only block the transfer of information between you and an anti-piracy organisation- the anti-piracy organisation can still get your IP address. It all depends on whether the anti-piracy organisation are playing 'nice' and trying to exchange data with you (so they have evidence), and not just harvesting your IP address. In addition, your ability to block certain organisations is dependent on the blocklist creators knowing which IP addresses to block, something that only happens after someone has been caught while running blocking software, and then looking at the IP addresses it was exchanging data with, and reporting it to the blocklist creators. I believe I saw an administrator confirming on a blocklist message board that they weren't blocking Guardaley while Guardaley were harvesting IP addresses for the Hurt Locker.

 

Finally, people do get caught running Peerblock- have a look through their forums and you'll see quite a few messages from people who've received letters. The Peerblock team themselves state that running Peerblock won't eliminate your chances of getting caught, but it will probably cut them down.

 

I guess each individual has to way up the risks before choosing to use bit torrent for files that infringe on copyright (I don't fancy a letter from ACS myself), but I would absolutely not trust Peerblock to be the sole firewall between myself and Anti Privacy organisations. Of course, there are other ways to make your file sharing more anonymous (not just for illegal reasons, but on the principle of the matter of the invasion of privacy), but they usually require a monthly subscription, and they aren't full proof.

[Scooby Doo69]

.

 

Of course, there are other ways to make your file sharing more anonymous (not just for illegal reasons, but on the principle of the matter of the invasion of privacy), but they usually require a monthly subscription, and they aren't full proof.

 

Correct, but the risk of an invasion of privacy is reduced. Choosing the right VPN provider will also come with encryption so even your ISP using DPI can not see what you are doing. They could receive a court order requiring them to hand over customer information, but most do not keep logs.

[barkbeauty]

Correct, but the risk of an invasion of privacy is reduced. Choosing the right VPN provider will also come with encryption so even your ISP using DPI can not see what you are doing. They could receive a court order requiring them to hand over customer information, but most do not keep logs.

 

Scoobs, you obviously know more about it than me, so I'm happy to defer to your judgement on this.

 

I'll say this- reading about this whole fiasco has left a bad taste in my mouth. As soon as my contract is up with my current provider, Talk Talk are getting my business from now on- just on principle.

[pridewat]

It took approximately four weeks from me sending the first LOD to me receiving my second letter from ACS Law. I sent a second LOD off two weeks ago, as they were not prepared to except my first one.

 

i send my 2nd lod almost a year ago and have never heard from them since.

[bob92101]

Has anyone ever submited a request for info to ACS under the Data Protection Act?

[floppydog]

I have a question - Chicken or egg ? Did they get the ip addresses with the content and then go looking for clients ? if this is the case how legal can that be ? I have read many posts but no one has ever commented on this.

[The GodMother]

As copyright law stands you can make one legal back up copy for your own use. Making it available to even a Family member is breach of copyright according to our out of date copyright laws. Making it available for other via P2P is a breach.

 

Once you've made it available and other have uploaded it, have a genuine copy will be no defence. Either way, you'v disclosed enough on a public forum.

 

Rite so if l was to copy the disc in case l lost it then being a family movie played it at a family nite then l would be breaking the law.

[8of9]

Has anyone ever submited a request for info to ACS under the Data Protection Act?

 

There are requests to the Information Commissioners Office on this subject. View one such request at Compliance with Data Protection by ACS:Law - WhatDoTheyKnow

 

There is an interesting paragraph in one of the pdf documents, the ICO's line on P2P disclosures.....

...."However, like many of the individuals who have contacted us on this issue we see that there are privacy risks in sharing data where no justification for the sharing is apparent. Subscribers and users have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the context of whether their ISP should disclose data to third parties. In addition, the context of the user's activity is also relevant here: a `serial' uploader who is well aware of the illicit nature of his activities clearly has limited scope for arguing that his privacy rights have been infringed; however, the fact that an IP address has been allocated to someone who appears to have used filesharing software is not enough to guarantee that the subscriber has committed an offence. "

 

As this appears to be a common view, why are the ISP's not challenging these applications from ACS Law. TalkTalk are the only ones who said that they would challenge the application and they have not been included in the court order. It would seem that ACS Law are taking the path of least resistance. Any challenge would result in a court appearance which would not only prove costly but would expose their dubious intentions and the accuracy of their data.

It is also stated on the court order dated 17th February that within 6 months ISP's BT, PLUSNET, O2 & BE UNLIMITED (Why aren't SKY in this list I wonder???), SHALL be provided with a written report stating precisely from the relevant names disclosed (1) how many of those persons were sent letters of claim, and (2) against which persons legal proceedings were issued. 6 months is up on 17th August for this order.

Check your court order and ask your ISP if they have received this report if it applies. It may start to throw some light on the claims that no one has yet been taken to court, and show the ISP's that this is a money making [problem] and that they should show some responsibility and challenge these applications to ensure that the data that they are revealing identities upon is lawful and accurate.

Sorry to go on about this but it really annoys me that the ISP's that we pay for our Broadband connection and entrust with our personal information readiliy gives it to a third party without questioning the validity of this data. Surely they have a duty of care? (or a backbone)

Anyway long live TALKTALK the champions of our online freedom!!!

[andydd]

Rite so if l was to copy the disc in case l lost it then being a family movie played it at a family nite then l would be breaking the law.

 

In theory (unlike CDs) DVDs are uncopyable*, and even attempting to circumvent the copy protection is illegal (at least in the US anyway, not 100% sure about the UK).

 

*As many of you know, the encryption was broken many years ago by DeCSS, there was legal action taken against its inventor who was initially found guilty (in Norway) but the verdict was later overturned.

 

Most DVD's and some software do explicitly say 'Do not make copies', but the law on making personal copies isnt 100% clear, there was much opposition to VHS recorders initially and who remembers 'Home Taping is Killing Music', or am I showing my age ?

 

Andy

[count orlok]

In theory (unlike CDs) DVDs are uncopyable*, and even attempting to circumvent the copy protection is illegal (at least in the US anyway, not 100% sure about the UK).

 

*As many of you know, the encryption was broken many years ago by DeCSS, there was legal action taken against its inventor who was initially found guilty (in Norway) but the verdict was later overturned.

 

Most DVD's and some software do explicitly say 'Do not make copies', but the law on making personal copies isnt 100% clear, there was much opposition to VHS recorders initially and who remembers 'Home Taping is Killing Music', or am I showing my age ?

 

Andy

 

OK I admit it, I am guilty of copyright (or is it copywrite?) theft; I just found a cassette tape I made of the hit parade in the 70s, it contained all the top 20 singles from that week!

Edited June 26, 2010 by count orlok

[bob92101]

There are requests to the Information Commissioners Office on this subject. View one such request at Compliance with Data Protection by ACS:Law - WhatDoTheyKnow

 

.........

 

Anyway long live TALKTALK the champions of our online freedom!!!

Yay to that. Are TALKTALK a good Broadband provider in other respects?

[andydd]

OK I admit it, I am guilty of copyright (or is it copywrite?) theft; I just found a cassette tape I made of the hit parade in the 70s, it contained all the top 20 singles from that week!

 

Has..did u record it by holding a microphone near the speaker, only to have it ruined by your mum coming in and telling you your fish fingers are ready ?

 

Andy

[8of9]

Yay to that. Are TALKTALK a good Broadband provider in other respects?

 

Only been with them for a short time but they handled my migration from SPINELESS_ISP.COM efficiently and so far they have been OK. Time will tell as to whether they are a goog provider or not but I do prefer to be with someone who is on my side.

[count orlok]

Has..did u record it by holding a microphone near the speaker, only to have it ruined by your mum coming in and telling you your fish fingers are ready ?

 

Andy

 

No my dad had one of them new fangled stereo's that had a cassette tape recorder that would tape off the radio and record player. Not only did it create pirate copies from the radio it also did it from the records. Now instead of lugging 12" vinyl records around we could play the cassettes on our Walkmans or dads car stereo, and heaven forbid lend 'em to our mates. MP3s and CDs, Cassettes ad LPs same principle. Now i don't think anyone copied 8 track cassettes, if the industry should have stuck to them, then they really would have gone bust.

[8of9]

EVERYBODY WHO HAS RECEIVED A LETTER FROM ACS LAW SHOULD READ THIS.

A part of a letter from Bridget Prentice MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State, Department for Constitutional Affairs, dated 8th February 2010.

"....The Ministry of Justice recognises the distress that has resulted from the conduct of ACS Law and shares the concern expressed by the Lords in this matter. It may be helpful to say to recipients of a letter from ACS Law who are satisfied that they have no liability whatsoever in respect of the issues raised, that it is open to them to inform ACS Law that they are not liable and do not intend to reply to any further correspondence save to defend a claim should one be brought. ACS Law's clients then would have to decide whether or not to proceed with a formal claim."

 

The full letter appears in an article on ACS Bore Received a letter from ACS LAW? Ministry of Justice: “ACS:LAWs conduct has caused distress”

 

So, ACS Law... put up or shut up! Throw it back over their heads to the "Copyright Holder" as it is they who must decide how to proceed once ACS Law's uncontested gravy train dries up.

Reply to them in this manner but be careful not to use the exact wording or you might be accused of using a template!!!

 

[kiptower]

Bridget retired @ the last election, however Heidi has taken over

 

her website if you want to contact her

 

Heidi Alexander. A strong voice for Lewisham East

[cashins]

Reply to them in this manner but be careful not to use the exact wording or you might be accused of using a template!!!

 

 

By a firm that every letter they send is a template no less.

 

David

[8of9]

Bridget retired @ the last election, however Heidi has taken over

 

her website if you want to contact her

 

Heidi Alexander. A strong voice for Lewisham East

 

As parliamentary under secretary of state?

If so, Does Heidi agree with her predecessors comments regarding ACS Law? And as she has taken over, What is she going to do about this debacle that the previous government left?