"Parking Charge" £70 Euro Car Parks?

[dave/ber]

Hi all,Having had problems navigating around my PC. I finally found the thread again,To update those that have been following my saga,ECP haven't given up yet,received another letter off ecp on18th October the tone seems much more polite, with information on how i can appeal.and loge an official complaint, also How I can write to the DVLA for information as to why they realest the RK,S address to them,

The following day i received a letter from the debt collecting agency which except fore the date is an exact copy of the one they sent in August, The notice of intent to make a civil claim against me,

Well what is my next move ,do I simply file them, or do I answer them first? And thank you all for being so patient and taking the time to answer.

[Barnsley Boy]

They are persistant aren't they.

 

I like the bit when they give you 1 last chance to pay or reap the consequences and then

 

1 month later you get yet another last chance. If only life were like that, more 2nd chances.

 

Does blow their credibility somewhat though. If people threaten then do not follow through they quickly get a repution as bulls**ters.

 

I'd hate to imagine this happening to the PPCs. Come on give us all a laugh, issue a few summons and see what you get.

[TaxedAndConfused]

I'm no expert but I went through this earlier this year.

 

Is this really a DCA or just "them" again ? If it is I would look at other threads about DCAs and get rid of them with the "this debt is in dispute" letter, that should send it back to ECP. Plenty of examples of letters that do that on here.

 

After that you can continue to wait or if impatient (like me:mad:) send them a "put up or shut up" letter, again plenty of examples on here. I did the latter and it went away - 9 months now and counting.

 

Keep the letters short, business like but polite and firm. Don't bother to debate the tickets, signs or anything like that.

 

I think this will indicate you aren't an easy victim so they will cut their losses (form letter printing, envelope stuffing, postage) and move on to the next "victim", sorry, "client".

[dave/ber]

Thanks Peoples, Think ill sit back a while longer, At the moment its costing THEM money which kind of tickles my warped sense of hummer,I am keeping all their corespondents, thanks for all your advice, i will keep you posted, D

[jcc100165]

These parasites work in Scotland too.

Do NOT pay a parking charge notice if issued one.

I got mine at Hamilton for parking on the pavement (like others).

I ignored the ticket and recieved a letter from ECP with the threat if not payed it will be put into the hands of Sherrif Officers. It was up to £50 by this time.

I wrote back asking for clear and conscise photos of the driver, calibrated proof of the cameras and terms and conditions for whom they are operating the car park.

To which they replied with a letter (now £75 owed). Basically they told me if I did not pay up, they would charge me with trespass NOT IN SCOTLAND..................

I contacted Trading Standards (who were fantastic) a letter with legal jargon was sent to ECP explaining no law of trespass exists in Scotland.

Guess what, ticket cancelled.

ECP admitted they cannot force a car owner to identify the driver. SO DONT.

Contact Trading Standards for help if ticketed. I did it worked.

DONT PAY. FIGHT THEM..............

[dave/ber]

hi jcc100165,,

THEY REMIND ME OF VAMPIRES , Spreading their venom all over, Anyway I have no intention of paying yntil a Judge tells me to, But its nice to talk to lick minded people, this site has been a godsend to me its given me the strength to take Thea's XXXXXXxx on. keep in touch as will I, thanks for the message.

regards D

[jcc100165]

Hi dave/ber, I can only give you moral support on this one as I am in Scotland. What won it for me is that I did not identify the driver,(ECP admitted I had no obligation to do this). Also they tried to use the law of trespass, which does not exist in Scotland.

If anyone gets a ticket in Scotland. PLEASE contact me..I WILL HELP.

Good luck dave/ber, I will keep in touch.

Jim......

[AlanPartridgeAhaaa]

First of all, what a great informative thread. Some really good and educated replies have assisted me immensely.

 

I picked up a fixed notice ticket from my local Sainsbury's and overstayed by about 7 hours (!) This is the first time I'd done it and it wasn't strictly intentional (I was late for work and had no other option to get there in time). But excuses aside...

 

I've now received the letter to me as RK of the vehicle from Euro Car Parks and I am considering what is the best option considering all of the varied views out there.

 

So, I am considering writing something along the lines of...

whilst I am the registered owner of the vehicle I cannot confirm the driver on the day in question. I assume you have this and would be able to forward me a copy so that I can establish who it was?

That aside, I am unhappy with the tone and content of your letter. The Office of Fair Trading defines an unfair business practice as: “sending demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question, for example, threatening debt recovery action to 'the occupier'..."

Assuming your records are correct and the car overstayed its allotted (free) time, I accept that a charge for parking is due in some form or another. As the registered owner I will bear the brunt of this rather than waste any more of mine, yours, or my friends and family’s time trying to resolve it. But, I am certainly not prepared to pay anything like what you have demanded. For example, the cost for a full day parking in the centre of Leeds can be as little as £5, so that is as much as I am prepared to send you. If you choose to decide that this is unacceptable then you might also like to be reminded of another OFT guideline that states “penalty charges must be a reflection of the actual costs incurred”.

I may then add a few other legal loopholes after this, but thought I’d see what others thought before I tried it.

Another point to add is that the envelope I received the letter in was not sealed and was in an open position when I collected it from my floor. Surely this contravenes some privacy law or something?

I also liked a letter posted earlier in the thread and am considering just using this instead. Please post your opinions on the best option here for me. Thanks.

The letter I referred to is as follows...

"I write in response to your letter dated ****

Please be aware, I do NOT have an account with yourselves or your client.

I do not accept this overdue amount as my responsibility, and do not wish to entertain any further correspondence suggesting so. You should instruct your client that I am the registered keeper of the vehicle in this matter. They should find the driver, and pursue the charge with them.

I would also draw their attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s Report of 2000, which declares that such resort by a company to a debt collector will have no basis in law unless the other party has a contract which specifically stipulates that the company may resort to such. I have no contract with your client.

As for yourselves, you should be aware that under constitutional law you are breaking the law by demanding money from me before any court conviction (bill of rights 1689). Therefore any claim you have is null and void as you have demanded monies from me.

Should you pursue this matter, I will report you to the OFT, as in their "Debt collection guidance - Final guidance on unfair business practices", they define an unfair business practice as "sending demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question, for example, threatening debt recovery action to 'the occupier'..."

Having given this matter fair treatment, please understand the following stipulation :

Any further letters received from you or your client will trigger the acceptance of the fact that you agree to pay me an administration fee of £50 per letter. Additional fees will be charged on a time/cost basis. I will invoice you and request payment within 7 days otherwise court action would follow on the 8th day. These terms are fair under the Unfair terms Act 1999 as this is for my time and expenses.

[jcc100165]

The onus is on ECP to prove who was driving. On the letter to Trading Standards they admitted that the registered keeper does NOT have to identify who was driving.... I would encourage you to contact Trading Standards for advice as they were not amused with ECP tactics, they also told ECP if they prosecuted myself Trading Standards would assist me in my defense.

[AlanPartridgeAhaaa]

My problem is the car overstayed by quite a bit, so I've not a great argument. I'm just trying to avoid the excessive fee via whatever loophole is available.

[TaxedAndConfused]

My problem is the car overstayed by quite a bit, so I've not a great argument. I'm just trying to avoid the excessive fee via whatever loophole is available.

 

You have to decide. I would personally just say

 

Thank you for your invoice. Any contract that exists will be with the driver of the vehicle on the day. Please take up the matter with them.

 

You do not have to say anything more. They will moan about it, you file and ignore. If a DCA comes send them the "its in dispute" letter.

 

 

Keep letters short and to the point, no point telling them the law because they will ignore you. Don't lie to them and deny you were driving, just don't admit it either.

[prettykitty]

I overstayed in a Morrison's car park in Peckhan S London and received a fine of £40 if I paid within 14 days. I waited until I received a reminder then I wrote to the parking enforcement company (called parking eye). Stating that under constitutional law they are breaking the law by demanding money from me before any court conviction (bill of rights 1689) and any claim they had would be null and void as they had demanded monies from me.

 

As they had written to me twice I had to advise them of the terms and conditions of writing to me, which are thus:

 

I will accept two free letters but any third letter received; would trigger the acceptance of the fact that they would have to pay me an admin fee of £50 per letter, but the third letter would also be a free letter unless I received a fourth letter related to this matter. In which case I would have to charge for ALL four letters. I would invoice them and request payment within 7 days otherwise court action would follow on the 8th day. The terms are fair under the Unfair terms Act 1999 as this is for my time and expenses. Any fifth letter would trigger a harassment action under the 1997 Protection from Harassment Act, which I would be entitled to claim £5,000 in damages for mental anguish.

 

Funnily enough every time I get a ticket and a reminder, I NEVER receive a third letter, as they (parking agents/councils) are really concerned that I would go for it.

 

 

OMG - YOU ARE A FC-UK'IN GENIUS!!!

Love it... PK

[AlanPartridgeAhaaa]

Just out of interest. Has anybody any experience of ignoring ECP's threatening letters and if so, what was the outcome? Did it reach court etc

[dave/ber]

Alan I have now been ignoring them science my last post. I last heard from ECP, And controlaccount, on the 4th and 10th of October respectively,

So watch this space,if I hear anything more ill let you all know,

Happy xmas to all, (and BE careful where you park ) D/B

[AlanPartridgeAhaaa]

What was the overall process for you Dave? I've just had the letter from Controlaccount. As I've not made any contact with them yet is it worth carrying on doing so?, or did your letters perhaps dissuade them from pursuing you?

[luoluo]

Alan I have now been ignoring them science my last post. I last heard from ECP, And controlaccount, on the 4th and 10th of October respectively,

So watch this space,if I hear anything more ill let you all know,

Happy xmas to all, (and BE careful where you park ) D/B

Here is my case, I have been abroad for 2 months, after I come back I found the posts from ECP and controlaccount with 125 pounds parking charge, I was definitely not the driver which I could show them the proof on my passport as I have been in China. I decide just ignore this after I read the informations above, hope it will be ok.

[dave/ber]

Hi Alan/and Luoiuo,

If you go back to my first post and follow the saga I think you will get the idea, Ill be honest when i started I was very apprehensive, always being weary of authority, but thanks to all the people who replied to me I've stuck at it. The more threads I read the more I thought about the injustice of it, and now I don't Worry about it, if they want to take me to court I would welcome It, I think we would all like to hear a judge's opinion,Loulou in my novice capacity I don't think you have anything to worry about, read through the the threads and you will see that you don't have to tell them who was driving, and if you wear out of the country just write and tell them you wear, theirs plenty of info on the site have a look, ( or just send them this smiley LOL ) Got to go I will Be in touch, MERRY CHRISTMAS

D/B

[MikeBigg]

( or just send them this smiley LOL )

 

You know if I ever get one of these invoices I might just do that!

 

In fact, the more I think about it the more I want to - lol

 

Mike

[AlanPartridgeAhaaa]

i'll write to controlaccount shortly.

 

Does anybody have any experience of them actually getting as far as taking people to court? Now that's something I do want to avoid.

[battyboomboom]

No, you WANT them to take you to court because they will lose. NO PPC has ever won a case where both have turned up and it has been defended properly.

[dave/ber]

well theirs your answer, thanks batty,have you been through this rigmarole to?

D/B

[battyboomboom]

No, I've not received one these PPC tickets, however since I found this forum and pepioo.com, and I've taken in interest in helping people having seen the amount of people getting these invoices and also the unlawfulness of the councils issuing tickets illegally (Neil Herron and Barrie Segal first brought this to my attention on talkSPORT)

[AlanPartridgeAhaaa]

Believe me, I do NOT want to be taken to court. What I do want is to know if anyone has been.

[dave/ber]

I think the general belief is that no one has been taken to court, because they might (Will) loose, and if that happens they will have no businesses there is another post about this but I'm a novice P C operator and i don't know how to guide you their, perhaps someone els out there can ?.

Dave

[pin1onu]

Believe me, I do NOT want to be taken to court. What I do want is to know if anyone has been.

 

Alan,

 

I've been hanging round these forums for a few months now and also on EDIT and I think you will find that most of these PPCs will not take you to court.

 

It's all bluff, bluster and intimidation. Basically most Private Parking Companies haven't got a leg to stand on and they know it. They may pass debts on to Debt Collection Agencies. If they do you merely need to inform the DCA that the Debt is disputed and they should refer it back to the client.

 

In answer to your question very, very occasionally one of these companies might take someone to court. It's very rare as they usually have insufficient evidence to prove their case (i.e. no proof of a contract with the driver).

 

Other things to bear in it's usually only the small claims court that you are in. As with all court case you have the right to be heard and to present a defense.

 

If you do find yourself with a summons for a court date please don't panic or get stressed. Post details on this forum. There are some really helpful people on these forums who will be happy to help you and advise you.

 

If you present a proper defense you will almost certainly win.

 

If you do get taken to court, unlikely though it is, and, even more unlikely, lose, you will not have to pay anything more than the charges set by the PPC provided the Judge deems them reasonable. The judge may award costs against you (usually the filing fee) and add some interest. If you then fail to pay the amount set then be prepared for visits from Debt Collection Agencies and Bailiff. As I say this is all extremely unlikely as these guys don't like to take people to court.