Harassment and victimisation by Jobcentre

[ErikaPNP]

The staff within jobcentres have no option but to follow them, they are defined in legislation. If they were to put the "rules" aside, it is not simply having their own take on it, it is breaking the law which would also cost them their job.

 

The only people who have the power to have the legislation changed is MP's and DWP ministers. The staff in jobcentres cannot change them.

 

With some Jobcentres it won't make a bit of difference if you send a letter special delivery for the attention of a particular person. Mail can only be signed for and opened by ONE person who is assigned to the task, for security reasons. Some mail is opened by a "mail opening unit" which is not even within the office where the decisions are made. Often there is a postal address, but it is not always the office address. I discovered this when I was assisting someone and I had sent a letter special delivery for the attention of a particular person. Funnily enough, the person I was assisting sent the decision maker a box of chocs by way of a thank you for her commitment to his case. Staff are not permitted to have chocs or any other foodstuff etc sent by claimants as a thank you, in case they had been tampered with, and this decision maker didn't even know they had been sent till I mentioned it during a conversation about another person I was assisting, I asked if she had enjoyed the chocs Mr X sent.

 

Going back to the legislation.....you are only ENTITLED to the benefit if you satisfy the criteria as specified within the legislation. If you have been declined a benefit unjustly that is what the appeals system is there for.

 

Yes it shouldn't happen, staff should be able to make the correct decisions from the outset. However we don't live in an ideal world, and the main problem is that there are fewer and fewer staff being employed in Jobcentre plus on a permanent basis, most are employed on temporary contracts and then when they go, new staff are employed on temporary contracts in their place. They are rarely trained fully or competently because there is not the resource to train them and therefore errors are made, continuously. If the member of staff is not sufficiently trained, that is not their fault. It is the fault of the higher authorities for not providing the level of training required. It's not a case of them being incapable, it's a case of them not being aware of a lot of things they should have been trained in. Implicit consent, also known as implied consent being one stumbling block that reps regularly come across when trying to assist clients. A large majority of DWP staff have never heard of it.

 

I deal with staff in Jobcentres on a regular basis, and it is becoming ever more evident that they are the ones who take all the crap, and usually for something that they are the powerless to change.

 

Which is why I always encourage people to complain to the highest level possible, let them deal with the crap, they caused it. Most of the Decision Makers I liase with are actually very nice people who are pulling themselves apart on a daily basis to try and help others. I do come across some obstructive Decision Makers occasionally, but not very often, and usually it is like I say a case that they have not been adequately trained in DWP's own policies and procedures.

 

In any case, we are getting very far away from this thread, all in all. Criticising the staff in the Jobcentre may make some feel better but it will do little to help Patma's friend. Patma, I hope the CAB worker is back soon and can get the wheels in motion. Have you heard of the Special Payments scheme? May be worthwhile to have the CAB enquire about it: DWP - Resource centre - Policy and strategy publications - Guide to Financial Redress for Maladministration - Introduction

 

Best wishes.

[patrickq1]

ive met with the management and thankfully all data was transcribed and recorded.....firstly when the manageresss tried denying certain statements we played the transcripts along with my emp.....she got of with a caution and allowed to still interfere with my claim....i am now in a position for taking further action which i intend doing ,it unfortunitely has to be court action for the management who are on my case including a minister have dug there heels in even in the face of defeat they are adamant ..but who cares i shall go all the way one thing for sure is i want this person to either be sacked or demoted to clerk status....thats all i can say...anyway here is the internal document for the staff at the DWP they are supposed to adhere to ..

Standards of Behaviour

The key things that you need to know

• Standards of Behaviour: Mutual trust is the foundation of the employment

contract between the Department and all its employees. The Standards of

Behaviour policy provides direction on how to behave to avoid any action

that could compromise this trust. These Standards of Behaviour are rooted

within the Civil Service Code.

• The Standards of Behaviour are summarised within Serving the public:

You must act professionally and in a way that is beyond reproach adhering

to your business dress standard

• Information Security: There are key elements of the standards expected of

you that you must adhere to when accessing, processing and handling

information securely and safely. (DWP and Security Rules):

• You must read and make yourself aware of your responsibilities under

the Departmental policies to safeguard information

handling Official Information and

disclosure of Information and

data handling policy

and follow Security rules that are based on the Data Protection Act .

This includes protecting your passwords and smartcard.

• Official Information and Access to Data.

You must not use official information for any purpose other than that for

which it is intended, irrespective of whether it is security marked or not,

or of a sensitive nature. Only deal with information that you need for

your work.

Make sure documents and official information is locked away where

appropriate and in line with business rules.

• Disclosure of Official Information.

All information is subject to disclosure rules whether protectively

marked or not. This does not prevent you from accessing, processing,

handling and sending information in line with policy, but you are

required to stop and think whether you have the authority to do this.

Information must only be disclosed to people who have a legitimate

business interest in that information and you must ensure the security

rules for the handling and disclosure of that information are applied and

satisfied.

You are expected to treat all official information and knowledge gained

through your employment or in the course of your official duties

according to the rules of

confidentiality,

protective markings,

handling official information and

disclosure of information.

You must not use official information, whether security marked or not or

of a sensitive nature for any purpose other than that for which it is

intended. You must not pass it to any person who does not have a

legitimate business interest without express permission of your line

manager or if they are in doubt the author of the document. Grade 7

(Band F) managers and above do not need permission. Information

should be sent safely.

• Participation on-line on the internet – Social Networking – Blogging.

As a civil servant, when you are online on the internet whether at work

or in your private life, you are expected to follow the standards of

behaviour and, when using the Department's computer systems, the

Electronic Media Policy.

• Data Provided to the DWP:

The Department is provided with a large amount of information, which

we hold on customers (members of the public), which must be kept

accurately, confidentially and securely. You must never use your official

position or information gained in the course of your official duties (such

as phone numbers, addresses), without authority to contact customers

for any purpose unrelated to DWP business.

You must keep in absolute confidence any data provided to the

Department and use it only for authorised purposes. Before revealing

any information make sure the other person is authorised to share it.

• Computer Systems.

You must use Departmental computer systems only for their designated

purposes and in compliance with security controls

• Criminal convictions: If you are charged with, or convicted of, a criminal

offence you must report this immediately to your manager

• Financial matters: When dealing with financial matters, you must follow the

Department’s procedures. This will protect you from questions about

impropriety, such as acceptance of gifts, rewards or hospitality and ensure

best use can be made of public resources

• Property of the DWP: You must treat property of the Department with care

and use it only for designated purpose

• Attendance: You are expected to make all reasonable efforts to report for

duty in a timely manner

• Health and Safety: You must follow all Health and Safety rules

• Acceptance of gifts, rewards or hospitality: These must only be accepted if

this does not compromise your position or that of the Department

• Working with fellow employees: You must show mutual respect and work

together as effectively as possible and in accordance with our Diversity

and Equality policy

• Outside interests of employees: There may be situations where your

outside interests could be seen to compromise your role or the reputation

of the Department such as your political activity or becoming a nonexecutive

director. In these circumstances, you must seek the advice of

your manager to resolve any conflict of interest

• Foreign travel: If you travel abroad in a private or official capacity, you

must report any unusual incidents with security implications to your

manager on your return to work.

Standards of Behaviour Policy

1.Mutual trust is the foundation of the employment contract between the

Department and all its employees. The Standards of Behaviour outlined below

provide direction on how to behave to avoid any action that could compromise

this trust.

2. All Civil Servants must follow the Civil Service Code. The Department’s

Standards of Behaviour are based on this Code, and set out the fundamental

standards expected from you at work and in your private life, which may

impact on your work.

3. The Department takes its security responsibilities very seriously. There are

varying policies, procedures (Security portal) and rules you must make

yourself aware of , as the consequence of failing to do so are serious and can

result in penalties up to and including dismissal. The discipline policy sets

out the consequences for breaches of security and the action that will be

taken.

Serving the Public

4. Most people will come into contact with the Department at some time in

their lives. The Department’s reputation depends on the quality of service

provided and the way in which our employees conduct themselves. This

includes treating all customers sympathetically and in a way that complies

with the Diversity and Equality policy.

5. The Department believes that its reputation and credibility with the public

and colleagues is enhanced by employees adhering to their business dress

standard, presenting themselves in a professional and business-like way,

prescribed by your business.

6. As part of the Department’s customer service policy all customers are

entitled to know the name of the person with whom they are dealing. If you

deal directly with customers, you will be expected to provide your name when

asked. In exceptional circumstances, where there is a significant risk, you may

be allowed to use an ‘office name’. This must be used consistently and with

full agreement of your manager. In some business areas it is the policy that all

employees will wear a name badge at work.

7. You must take care to avoid putting yourselves in a position where your

work and private life is in conflict. For example, you must not deal with anyone

with whom you have family or personal connections. You must seek advice

from your manager if you are unsure of whether or not someone is considered

to be connected to you.

8. If a member of the public asks you to represent them in a private capacity

at a Social Security appeal tribunal you must obtain permission from a senior

officer (not below SEO/Band E).

Official information and access to Data

9. Official Information is any information acquired in the course of your official

duties. It may include information about customers, DWP employees,

government, ministers or information generated within the Department to

support its business

10. Official information includes all documents and employee and customer

personal information, irrespective of whether it is has a security or protective

marking must be kept securely. Employees must not disclose official

information inappropriately.

11. In line with local business guidelines, official information must be locked

away securely while not being used. It must also be disposed of correctly

12. Official documents must be handled in line with the Civil Service Code and

Departmental policies about confidentiality, handling official information, and

protective markings and disclosure of information.

Disclosure of Official Information

13. All official information is subject to disclosure rules whether protectively

marked or not.

14. You are expected to treat all official information gained through your

employment in accordance with Departmental and Civil Service the rules on:

• Confidentiality,

• Protective markings,

• Handling official information and

• Disclosure of information.

15. You must not use official information, whether security marked or not or if

it is of a sensitive nature for any purpose other than that for which it is

intended. You must not pass it on or make it available to any person who does

not have a legitimate business interest including other DWP colleagues,

without the express permission of your line manager or if they are unsure the

author of the document. Grade 7 (Band F) managers and above do not need

permission.

16. In certain circumstances there may be exceptions to the above rule and

these are set out in the Handling Official Information guidance . Please note

that these requirements do not affect your right to make a protected disclosure

under the Public Interest Disclosure provisions of the Employment Rights Act

1996 and requests under the Freedom Of Information Act.

17. Employees who disclose official information by failing to follow these

Standards of Behaviour and any other rules about the security and

confidentiality of documents, records, official and personal information and

data will be subject to disciplinary action.

18. Disciplinary action on disclosure of information will only be taken after

the HR Business Partner team has been consulted.

Participating on-line on the internet – Social Networking –

Blogging

19. Employees should be careful that information placed on social networking

sites does not conflict with any of the Standards of Behaviour, and to ensure

that they restrict any information they wish to remain private.

20. When participating on line as a civil servant, you are expected to follow

the standards of behaviour set out in this policy and, when using the

Department’s computer systems, the Electronic Media Policy. When

representing the Department in an official capacity you should conduct

yourself online in the same way as you would with other media or public

forums, such as when speaking at conferences, and disclose your position as

a representative of your department or agency.

21. You should not disclose any knowledge and official information, make

commitments or engage in activities on behalf of government unless you are

authorised to do so. Any postings must comply with DWP policies and you

must be careful not to represent the Department when you are expressing

personal opinions. Personal opinions including remarks about fellow

employees that breach the Department’s standards of behaviour policy may

lead to disciplinary action being taken

22. If you are participating on line privately you should not be associating

yourself with the Department in any way.

Data Provided to the DWP

23. All information we hold on employees will be kept in compliance with

legislation including the Data Protection Act (DPA). You must consult your

manager if in doubt about Data Protection.

24. The main elements of the DPA are to ensure that:

• Personal data must be processed fairly and lawfully and in accordance

with the Data Protection Act

• That appropriate individuals have access to other people’s personal data

and only use that only for legitimate reasons

• Data is retained for the appropriate amount of time as determined by the

needs of the business

• An individual can request to see information stored by the Department

about them by making a subject access request

Computer Systems

25. The Department provides computer systems to enable you to do your job

effectively. You are required to use the appropriate systems of the

Department and you must use the computer systems and the data they

contain only for the designated purposes required for your job. You must not

access, or attempt to access, your own or other people’s records without

authorisation. You must not approve your own notifications using the

Department’s Resource Management system unless a specific policy permits

you to do so. Disciplinary action will be considered if you fail to follow policy

guidance. Delegated access to approve notifications can only be made in line

with Resource Management guidance. You must be mindful of the following

standards, among other things, when using the Internet or e-mail facilities:

• You may use Internet or e-mail facilities for reasonable personal use in

your own time and providing it does not interfere with your work

• You must not access any information on the Internet that is offensive or

would/could be an embarrassment to the Department. In particular you are

forbidden to access pornographic sites or those containing racist or other

offensive content

• You must not send e-mails internally or externally that contain offensive

messages or content. The Department reserves the right to routinely scan

for potentially offensive and inappropriate material and to review e-mails

you send using the Department’s systems

• You must also not undertake activities that impair the operation of the

computer, nor attempt to personalise the system in any way by installing

software or screensavers. If any incident has occurred that compromises

security, you must tell your manager immediately

• To maintain the integrity of the Department’s computer systems, it is also

important that you comply with all computer security controls. In particular,

you must keep your password confidential, ensure that your Smartcard

card is only used by yourself and that the answers to your security

questions are not written down or otherwise accessible to anyone else.

• You must not use unencrypted memory sticks (USB sticks) in any

circumstances - even if the data being stored would not be considered as

sensitive. Using unencrypted memory sticks or sharing them with others

will result in disciplinary action

• You must comply with the information on the use of computer systems that

is included in the Electronic Media Policy.

Health and Safety

26. To do your job effectively, you need to operate in a safe and healthy

working environment. To protect your health and safety and that of your

colleagues you must:

• Follow all health and safety rules , report any potential danger to your

manager and immediately record any accident that occurs on official

premises

• Observe the Department’s smoking policy . This prohibits smoking on

Department premises, except in areas specifically designated as smoking

areas. You are not permitted to smoke when dealing with customers or

undertaking official duties outside the office

• Not consume alcohol or illegal drugs on Departmental premises or come to

work whilst under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs

• Produce a building photo pass, if you have one, on entry to Department

locations and wear it at all times. Employees that work in public areas or

at reception counters are not expected to wear their photo pass when

dealing with members of the public

Criminal Convictions

27. If you are charged with, or convicted of, a criminal offence you must

report it immediately to your manager, even if the incident has no relation to

your work for DWP. This would include;

• Any cautions you receive or administrative agreements you sign as a

result of any charges

• Any traffic offences occurring on official duty or in an official car, or traffic

offences in any vehicle at any time involving driving under the influence of

drink or drugs, or

• One which leads to the loss of your driving licence and/or imprisonment.

• Other traffic offences need not be reported.

28. If you are arrested and refused bail, you must tell your manager as soon

as possible. You must also tell your manager if you are arrested for any

offences of a financial or fraudulent nature, regardless of whether bail has

been granted.

29. Managers must record any disciplinary action on RM.

Financial Matters

30. It is important that you do not expose yourself or the DWP to any financial

activities that could be seen as inappropriate such as gambling on official

premises. You have a duty to use public money responsibly, equally, you are

expected to report to your manager if you suspect any financial irregularity

and co-operate with any subsequent investigations.

31. You must not lend money to, or borrow money, from colleagues,

employees or customers. You must only organise collections, raffles and

national lottery syndicates on a voluntary basis, and not for causes that could

be construed as having a political affiliation. There are rules governing this in

the staff clubs guide that you must follow that are set out. Similarly, you may

not apply for trade cards for your personal use in the name of the Department.

32. Any contracts must be handled in a transparent way. If there might be any

perceived possible conflicts of interest due to personal interests,

acquaintances, previous contacts, you must make your manager aware as

soon as possible.

33. Equally, you must not have investments either directly or indirectly in

companies about whom you have price sensitive and unpublished information

through your official duties. Private financial interests must not be furthered as

a result of your official position, for example in buying and selling surplus

government property. Managers must be made aware of any business

interests to prevent a perceived conflict of interest. It is also important to note

that trading from official premises is not permitted. Defrauding the Department

or colluding with someone else to do so will be treated as gross misconduct

and will result in disciplinary action. Action will also be taken to recover the

funds and refer the case to the police or other appropriate authority.

34. If you have been, or become, bankrupt or insolvent, or you are

experiencing serious financial difficulties, you must tell your manager who will

consider any implication on your current role.

Property of the DWP

35. You must use items of equipment and property only for their designated

purposes and in accordance with instructions given. You must take care to

ensure that no loss or damage occurs to them. If any loss or damage occurs,

you must report this immediately to your manager. Theft from the Department

is not acceptable and could result in referral to the police for prosecution. The

Department will seek to re-coup any monies owing.

36. You may use the Departmental telephone systems for short local personal

calls, or use a mobile telephone to make limited personal calls, or send text

messages. The use of any electronic equipment must be in line with the

Electronic Media Policy.

Attendance

37. You are expected to make all reasonable efforts to report for duty at your

place of work in a timely manner; failure to do so without prior authorisation,

(unauthorised absence), is a disciplinary offence . Specific arrangements will

apply if you do not attend work due to participation in industrial action.

38. In the case of travel disruptions or bad weather, you are expected to

consider alternative transport options including walking if less than one hour’s

walking distance, or secondly, to consider working from an office location

closer to home, or from home if practicable. Consideration will be made for

issues of diversity and equality, and for your health, safety and welfare.

39. When ill, you must agree arrangements with your manager for making

regular contact with them while not attending work.

Acceptance of Gifts, Rewards or Hospitality

40. Gifts, rewards or hospitality must only be accepted if there is not a risk

that the Department or employee will become obligated or be perceived to be

obligated to any outside organisation or member of the public. You must

consult with your manager if any gifts, rewards (including prizes) or hospitality

are offered and agree the appropriate response. Any offers of this nature,

other than small gifts such as pens and chocolates, must be recorded as with

acceptance of gifts, rewards or hospitality.

Working with Fellow Employees

41. The Department is committed to providing the best possible services to all

our customers. To achieve this, employees need to co-operate and work

together effectively - you must be able to rely on your colleagues, as they

must be able to rely on you. This means working conscientiously, as directed

by your manager, and carrying out your duties in line with current policies and

procedures.

42. A private relationship with colleagues is acceptable as long as it does not

conflict with duties. This means you must not manage partners or close

relatives.

43. The Department is also committed to providing services to the public that

embrace diversity and that promote equality of opportunity. As an employer,

the Department is committed to equality and valuing diversity within the

workforce. The Department expects you to show respect for each other and to

comply with the Diversity and Equality Policy.

Outside Interests of Employees

44. You are responsible for ensuring that there is no conflict of interest

between your interests outside work and your role at the Department, and that

you do not bring the Department into disrepute.

45. You must never request special treatment from any DWP customer that

would benefit your outside interests. If your work involves contact with

external business organisations, such as banks, you must never ask for

special treatment for yourself or colleagues.

46. Equally, if you are planning to take up an additional paid post or

membership of a non-political organisation, it should not require attendance

during your normal DWP working hours, or be carried out on DWP premises.

You must consider whether there is a conflict of interest. If you believe that

there could be a conflict of interest, you must discuss it with your manager, so

that they can satisfy themselves that it will not impact your duties or adversely

affect the reputation of the Department. Any such post must not adversely

affect your ability to carry out your duties effectively. You must ensure that it

does not include any activity that involves handling the Department’s

instruments of payments, e.g. Post Office duties, or activity that involves debt

collection, credit investigation or money lending. If you are involved in setting

up or managing a board and lodging establishment/nursing home, this could

cause a conflict of interest if public money is paid to that establishment.

Therefore if you are considering this, you must speak to your manager who

may grant permission depending upon your official duties.

47. Acceptance of a Non-Executive Directorships must also be reviewed with

your manager in the same way as a paid post.

48. If you want to leave the Department and accept a job offer made by a

person, company or firm with whom the relationship has been established

during the course of your official duties, or if you are offered a job in these

circumstances at any time during your employment you need to obtain

permission in advance from your manager. This applies if you are still working

for DWP or within 2 years of having left DWP.

49. You must not represent the Department in any official capacity without

prior approval from your manager. You must also seek your manager’s

permission to take part in political activities assuming that they comply with

the Civil Service Code and do not affect or appear to affect the services you

deliver to the Government of the day.

50. It is a personal decision whether or not to join a Trade Union but the Civil

Service encourages employees to join an appropriate Trade Union and to play

an active part within it. You do not need permission to take part in Trade

Union activities in your own time, but you will still be bound by the rules on

disclosure of information.

51. You are encouraged to talk to local organisations about your work,

however prior management approval is required. Before undertaking any talks

including lectures, broadcasts or publishing material, your manager must be

given the opportunity to agree the content and be supplied with a copy of the

material to be used.

52. Do not take part in surveys or research in your official capacity, even

anonymously, without prior permission from your manager.

53. Staff are reminded that care should be taken when using any social

networking site. A Breach of the Standards of Behaviour is possible for

instance if staff make derogatory comments about fellow staff members, or

adverse comments about the Department, care should be taken to ensure that

the confidentiality of the role performed in official capacity is not undermined.

Foreign travel

54. Employees are not required to report to managers when they are

travelling abroad unless the journey is to or via the Peoples Republic of China,

including Hong Kong. In these cases employees must read Departmental

Security Office advice before travelling.

[patrickq1]

Going back to the legislation.....you are only ENTITLED to the benefit if you satisfy the criteria as specified within the legislation. If you have been declined a benefit unjustly that is what the appeals system is there for

 

i know you mean well....but your apeal system does not work////ATOS ORIGON are about the lowest of the low the **** of the earth..i have four specialist surgeons letter to report my illness yet without knowledge of of this ATOS DOCTORS wrote i was not ill was perfectly fit and malingering (their words)..dont get me wrong i admire those who do try to help and really appreciate their work...although i do frown from time to time at some of the advice

patrickq1

[patrickq1]

the DWP's guidance on

Official Error and Maladministration which can be found at

Department for Work and Pensions: Resource centre

i also wish to point out to everyone do not ask for your data under the data protection act because it will be limited ok

always ask under the freedom of information act

Edited May 12, 2009 by patrickq1

[sandysue103]

This is getting ridiculous. This thread which started as a single person having problems with a particular Jobcentreplus office has somehow turned into a bit or a tirade by various CAGgers, some of which is completely subjective, most of which isn't at all helpful to anyone. I for one am a bit sick of it. I am one of those robotic decision makers who has to live with their consceince, and yes sometimes I have to admit I do go home and think about some of the customers I have seen that day. I do have to stick to the law. We all do in one way or another. That's just life. And I stay there because most of the time I genuinely feel I do more good than harm. The system is far from perfect, there will always be people who are bad at their job, there will always be customers who are mistreated and it is absolutely right that people who feel they have been treated badly should complain and challenge the system. But it really annoys me that people who come on here to help take a verbal bashing.

Can a mod please message me and tell me how to delet my membership? Or can someone please message me and tell me how to contact them? I am a bit techno hopeless and can't work out how to send messages!

[patrickq1]

SORRY U FEEL THAT WAY SUE PERHAPS BEING ON THE FRONT DESK YOU DONT GET THIS HUH.....IT IS APPRECIATED YOUR HELP LIKE I SAID I DO FROWN AT SOME OF THE ADVICE GIVEN THO...NOT YOURS TO DATE PERHAPS WE SHOULD OR I SHOULD START A NEW THREAD HOW TO GET INFOR THOUGH THE DWP FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT DONT FORGET SUE YOU ARE UNDER INSTRUCTIONS TO ADHERE TO SECTION SEVEN S.7 NOT TO DISCLOSE ANY DATA THAT THEY DONT WANT US TO SEE THE ONLY WAY ANYONE CAN GET TO SEE ALL OF THE INFORMATION THEY RTEQIRE IS THROUGH AN AUDIT TRAIL SO REMEMBER ANYONE WANTING INFORMATION MUST INCLUDE IN THE FOI ACT REQUEST A FULL AUDIT TRAIL...THIS WAY YOU GET EVERYTHING YOU NEED....SORRY SUE I WOULD ASK YOU STAY ON HERE AND PERHAPS I CAN SEND YOU SNIPPETS THAT MAY HELP YOU OK

PATRICKQ1

BELOW IS QUESTIONS YOU MUST ADD TO YOUR FOI ACT REQUEST...ENJOY

 

"Audit Trail Information

 

154 If the customer specifically requests audit trail information

it can be provided to the customer, subject to any exemptions.

However, do not include audit trail information as part of a

response to a routine subject access request. Only include it if

they specifically ask."

 

It is noted that the DWP policy states that a SANTA01 Form whousl

be sent to as person making a Subject Access Request where phrases

such as “all the personal information you hold on me” are used in

the original request. It is evident that where a Data Subject uses

such a phrase the SANTA01 only has the function to obtain specific

operands and not to reduce the scope of the Subject Access Request.

 

There is no exemption within The Data protection Act Subject Access

provisions for Data such as Audit data and Audit Data Trails to be

withheld when a Subject Access Request is made. Any and all Data

caught under the definition of Data within the Act are to be

supplied except where there is a lawful exemption. there is No

Blanket Exemption for Audit Data - Audit trail Data and as such It

is to be supplied automatically when a Subject Access Request is

Received.

 

The SANTA01 Form mentions nothing of Audit Data and it's function

is not to decide which Data Are to be provided but to seek relevant

operands and identifiers which a Data can Controller can reasonably

request as per Section 7(3) of the Data Protection Act which

states;

 

"A data controller is not obliged to comply with a request under

this section unless he is supplied with such information as he may

reasonably require in order to satisfy himself as to the identity

of the person making the request and to locate the information

which that person seeks."

 

The SARG document acts to alter the intent and explicit application

of the Data protection Act 1998 and to withhold data that is caught

fully within the definitions of The Act.

 

Again you are requested

 

1.) When did the DWP adopt this policy of not fully complying with

the Subject Access Provision of The Data Protection Act 1984/1998

and started to fail to comply fully with the Act?

 

For clarity please provide date in the form "day - month - year"

 

2. Provide full copies of any and all policy documents, other than

SARG, operated, used or held by the DWP as to this withholding of

Data in breach of a Lawful Subject Access Request.

 

Again these are DOCUMENTS and POLICY STATEMENTS in their own right

and which will need to be provided in Acrobat Pdf Format.

 

3. Identify who is the person and their contact details who should

be contacted to first object to such breaches of The Data

Protection Act and also who is responsible for providing this Audit

Data as it was on the date a Subject Access Request was lawfully

made to the DWP.

 

That is name - Salutation - Christian name Surname, Job Title,

Correspondence Address.

[Bazooka Boo]

This is getting ridiculous. Can a mod please message me and tell me how to delete my membership?

 

At the bottom of the page is Contact Us,

This will open up another screen where you can contact the team direct.

Edited May 12, 2009 by Bazooka Boo

[sandysue103]

Thanks for that. I hadn't ever noticed that!

Perhaps not being on the front desk I don't get what? Sorry Patrick, I don't understand that comment.

Thanks Bazooka Boo and especially Erika.

[ErikaPNP]

Sue, don't let it get to you. The problem is not just here, but everywhere you go. It's just a real shame that it's allowed to go on, particularly as the Jobcentre staff who come here are doing so in their own free time to offer help and advice.

 

I don't work in the administration of benefits as I've pointed out before, but I quite often get jumped upon because people automatically assume that because I advise on these matters, that I MUST be. My work involves a lot of liasing with Jobcentres and understanding benefits but I never reveal what I actually do as it's nobody's business but my own. Some people see a post from me and that's it, they think they have a benefits officer by the knackers and get stroppy. I just don't tolerate it, whether it's me they are being off with or someone else.

 

I mean if you go into the debt forum you'll come across the odd post from a debt collection agency worker who will register on here and say something along the lines of "Pay your debts, ******", or "If you can't pay, don't take out loans" etc etc etc.....they are more often than not, never seen again. One or two or maybe a few more posts then they beggar off.

 

The difference is that on this subforum there are benefits officers providing genuine advice. I've never seen a benefits officer on here say "Get a job" or anything equally judgemental or horrid to a person. Yet others don't seem to notice that. Oh - there's a benefits advisor, let's all say as many horrible things as we can to them. FFS Benefits advisors suffer enough abuse in their day job without getting it on here as well when they come here in their OWN time to offer genuine advice.

 

My message is always, if you are unhappy with the legislation, complain about the legislation to the people who work together to put it in place. If you are unhappy with the way a particular individual has treated you, then complain about that individual, but don't tar all with the same brush. Piece said. I'm off now to locate a member of the Site Team to draw their attention to this. Like you I am throughly sick of benefit officer bashing when people are trying to help.

 

Patma, I sincerely hope your friend gets what he is entitled to and compense for the manner in which he has been treated. If you need any further advise or support, feel free to PM me or reply in here. EDITED TO ADD: I do apologise that your thread has been taken over by this ridiculous dispute.

 

And Sandysue - welcome as always. xx

Edited May 12, 2009 by ErikaPNP

[Rooster-UK]

Please note that we have rules on this site.....

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forum-rules-please-read/9-forum-rules-please-read.html

 

These rules apply equally to ALL users of this site.

 

Please treat all other users of this site with courtesy. Any post which does not conform with with the requirements of the Forum Rules will be moderated. Any post which insults any other user will be moderated.

Any user who repeatedly insults other users will, in turn, also be moderated.

 

Please show respect for users who post on these forums, in their own time, to offer help and advice to other users who have problems.

You may have issues with the organizations that these users represent, but you do NOT have issues with the users who come here, freely, to offer help.

 

PLEASE EXTEND THE COURTESY THAT THESE USERS ARE ENTITLED TO.

 

If you are not prepared to do this, then please withdraw from the thread.

 

Regards, Rooster-UK.

[patrickq1]

hi sue dont think i have been critical do you ? can you tell me about automated decision making ,has this happened to you or have you come accross it yet....

patrickq1

[Patma]

Thanks to everyone for their contributions to this thread.

I would like to thank Sandysue and others for their input and advice, which I for one appreciate.

Thanks to Erika for all your very perceptive advice too. I'm following up all the links you've provided.

Those posters who have had bad experiences at the hands of the Jobcentre/DWP, I understand your anger and frustration, and I hope that together we can all help one another. Let's start again please with a clean slate and treat everyone with respect as fellow CAGGERS.

 

Well that's my little piece said and now for an update about my friend's case.

The very helpful CAB lady is back on the case and has called a meeting for Friday to see what can be done. Tomorrow it will be 3 weeks since he failed to sign on and instead handed in his letter of complaint and explanation of why he he felt unable to sign on. The previous day a man from the CAB had written to the Jobcentre about the fact that my friend had been signing on and fulfilling all the criteria but was receiving no benefits. About 10 days ago my friend wrote another letter because there'd been no responses and to date there has been nothing but a big silence from the Jobcentre.

Then this afternoon while I was at my friend's home, the phone rang, which I answered and lo and behold it was the very manager from the Jobcentre who had refused my friend's request to record his interview.

This man began by saying that he was fully aware that my friend had asked for all communication to be in writing, but the complaint had only just come to him (after 3 weeks!) and would he now speak to him on the phone. In view of the fact that the accusation of being a potential threat arose from a telephone call apparently and my friend had repeatedly requested communication in writing previously due to his disabilities (hearing etc), he refused and asked that his wishes be respected, whereupon the manager had no choice but to agree.

Hopefully something will now start to happen and I'll keep everyone posted.

[Patma]

A letter arrived today from the manager who tried to phone the other day. It offers an unreserved apology for the letter which was sent out and the action taken, saying that it was inappropriate and my friend's behaviour on the telephone did not warrant such a response.

Even though they have apologised it does not say that the adverse marking which was passed to other organisations will be withdrawn, nor does it say to whom this marking was passed. It doesn't mention anything about the money he is owed either, so there is still further to go.

This is a very good start though as we now have an admission, in writing that the person who initiated this action was in the wrong and that they are being dealt with. It's taken over 3 weeks for this to come through, but better late than never.Thanks to everyone for their support and advice.

Edited May 14, 2009 by Patma
Typo

[patrickq1]

Even though they have apologised it does not say that the adverse marking which was passed to other organisations will be withdrawn, nor does it say to whom this marking was passed. It doesn't mention anything about the money he is owed either, so there is still further to go.

this now some good news at least it is a start....you must now send in your FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUEST BUT IT MUST INCLUDE THE FULL AUDIT TRAIL NOTHING LESS with this being asked for they now have to supply everything including screen printouts etc..an also to include phone transcripts...

patrickq1

[Patma]

Thanks for that Patrick, I'll make sure it does.

[patrickq1]

any news

[Patma]

No response yet to the FOI with full audit trail request, but a solicitor has taken the case on and has said my friend has a strong case.

He was mpressed BTW with the advice given about the full audit trail so thanks for that, Patrick.

The CAB are dealing with the appeal for the missing benefits, but nothing to report there yet.

I'll keep you posted on what happens next.

[patrickq1]

they will stretch it for as long as they can they have also shot themselves in the fut....what you must look for now is any dates missing and any data that has been blanked out or deliberately missing.....also if your freing is of aisan decent then i think you have a very extreme case of race crime and should be dealt with in and with the full extent of the law and to include whoever the managers were at the time for being party to these obnoxious actions.....do not accept anything less,do not accept any deals and meatings to discuss the matter now leave it in the hands of the solicitor....they are best to handle this now...

good luck

[ErikaPNP]

You cannot claim race discrimination simply for "being asian". To make a claim of racial discrimination you have to prove that there was unfavourable treatment because of the person's race.

 

People use the term "discrimination" far too loosely, without considering the facts.

[patrickq1]

perhaps not but by the sounds of things they are getting messed around,,THE DWP ARE SUPPOSED TO LOOK AFTER YOUR INTERESTS NOT FRUSTRATE OR DENY YOUR ENTITLEMENTS... i know from personal experiance just how horrible they can be with their dic tat....some real mini hitlers work in some of these departments .... and especially when it comes to the DECISION MAKER who is meant to be independant,,if you can beleive that ? then we are living on two different planets

just my opinion..

patrickq1

[ErikaPNP]

I didn't say they hadn't been messed around, it's absolutely crystal clear that they have been been treated appaulingly. I was pointing out that discrimination is not something that can just be pulled from a hat, it is extremely difficult to prove.

 

Being "messed around" in itself does not amount to discrimination, no matter how bad the treatment was unless it can be proven that someone else from a different ethnic background would be treated more favourably in the same set of circumstances, or unless specific mention was given to their ethinticity in a derogatory manner.

 

They could argue "victimisation" but not discrimination, unless the above applies.

[patrickq1]

ok point taken erika

[Bazooka Boo]

He was mpressed BTW with the advice given about the full audit trail so thanks for that, Patrick.

 

Yes please do keep us all informed on the outcome, it's always reassuring to know that information given from here is relevant and appropriate:D

[Patma]

Hi everyone, it's great to see you're still checking in to see how things are going.

Another point I meant to mention is about the appeal for the missing benefits, which my friend sent in nearly a month ago now. He formally appealed and it's been ignored so far.

Last Monday a member of the CAB rang the Jobcentre to chase matters up and he was told the letter had only just arrived in the relevant department and would be dealt with asap, but still nothing.

As I understand it, their own rules specify the appeals procedure and an acknowledgment of the appeal letter should be sent within a certain time limit, so they are dragging their feet I guess.

I'll keep you all posted and thanks for all the help and support.

[ErikaPNP]

As far as I know an appeal is the same as a claim in that the receipt of the appeal itself is not acknowleged, but any action upon it is. If you or the CAB can find any DWP policy which states acknowledgements are issued, let me know as it would come in useful for the people I support too. I have searched and can't find it anywhere. It may well be that the Tribunals Service send out acknowledgements, but I can't find anything which states DWP do.

 

What generally happens when an appeal request is received, a decision maker will initially look at the claim again to see if they can overturn the decision in the customer's favour. If they can, they will do this and send out a new letter advising of the new decision. If they need more information before they can consider overturning the decision, they will either telephone or write to request it. If they are unable to revise the decision in the customer's favour, they will forward the appeal to the tribunals service and issue a letter to the customer, advising that they have done this. If the issue is not subject to appeal, again they will write to advise the customer why.

 

Other factors to consider are: Was it a formal appeal - was a GL24 completed? If not, did your friend ask for an appeal or did he simply ask them to look at their decision again, or reconsider?

 

What decision has he actually appealed? I know you said it's missing benefits but has he been given an answer about why his benefits are missing as yet? If not, it's not a matter subject to appeal as no decision has been reached, but as he has waited this length of time without an answer it would certainly be a matter for complaint, and a serious one at that.

 

It may well be the case that the appeal has only just been received in the relevant department. However the date of appeal remains as the date stamped on the appeal itself, therefore it just having arrived there isn't relevant. It should be dealt with based on the date stamped on it and should not delayed by appeals which have a date stamp after that one. In other words if it had for example a date stamp of 01/05/09, it should be dealt with before any appeals received after that date.

 

I don't know if your friend would have seen one of these, hopefully he will find it answers some questions: http://www.jobcentreplus.gov.uk/JCP/stellent/groups/jcp/documents/websitecontent/dev_012310.pdf

 

and this: http://www.dwp.gov.uk/advisers/ni260/

 

Hope this gives you some answers.