Help - RBS Mint want a fight!

[exchange]

Thanks supasnooper. I will adapt and send.

[exchange]

Default Notice.pdf

 

Received default notice today (18 May 2009) dated 11 May 2009.

 

Two questions I would like help with please.

 

Is the default notice valid?

 

How should I respond to it?

 

I have had no response to a request for a copy of my agreement under CPR31.16, having received a copy of an application form after a CCA request, and I am in no position to make payments to them.

 

I live in an EU country, not the UK so wondering where I stand from the legal point of view.

 

Any answers/help appreciated.

[supasnooper]

Hi there,

 

under CPR 6.26 the Default Notice would have been deemed served 2 days after the date on the DN if posted 1st class and 4 days after the date on the DN if posted 2nd Class.

 

Read this link to understand DN's, service of papers, termination, etc. ( courtesy of B_R_W) - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2166205.html

 

The DN would be defective as it does not state a date to remedy under Consumer Credit Enforcement Default and Termination Notices & Regulations 1983 -

 

 

Details of breach of agreement and action required to remedy, or pay compensation for, the breach

 

3

A specification of:--

 

(a) the provision of the agreement alleged to have been breached; and

 

(b) the nature of the alleged breach of the agreement, specifying clearly the matters complained of; and either

 

© if the breach is capable of remedy, what action is required to remedy it and the date, being a date [not less than fourteen days] after the date of service of the notice, before which that action is to be taken; or

 

(d) if the breach is not capable of remedy, the sum (if any) required to be paid as compensation for the breach and the date, being a date [not less than fourteen days] after the date of service of the notice, before which it is to be paid.

 

 

 

Regarding your question on EU, this link gives some information on debt within Europe and enforcement - PART 78 - EUROPEAN ORDER FOR PAYMENT AND EUROPEAN SMALL CLAIMS PROCEDURES - Ministry of Justice

[exchange]

Thanks for the reply supasnooper. I am aware of the EOP but unclear as to whether this could be used as it states it is for the recovery of 'uncontested payments'. As I consider the account to be 'in dispute' I want to believe they would struggle to use this method, and hope I am right.

RBS say the account is not in dispute but they would wouldn't they. If I claim the account is in dispute can they simply carry on denying this and continue to add interest and charges?

Should I respond and if so is there a suitable letter I could use?

TIA.

[supasnooper]

If they carry on adding charges and interest - reclaim them.

 

Letters here - adapt to suit

 

The Consumer Forums - Bank charges templates (consumer)

[exchange]

Thanks supasnooper but I feel if I start to try reclaiming charges and interest I am going off at a tangent.

This is the most advanced of five disputed accounts and the first one that is getting serious.

My basic argument at the moment is that they have sent a copy of an application form, not an enforceable credit agreement and that they have not complied with my CPR31.16 letter.

So the account is in dispute and therefore they should treat it as such.

I feel I should write back reminding them of this first and would appreciate advice on the format of a letter to send or pointed in the direction of a good template letter.

Thanks to anyone for any help.

[heliosfa]

Hi there,

 

under CPR 6.26 the Default Notice would have been deemed served 2 days after the date on the DN if posted 1st class and 4 days after the date on the DN if posted 2nd Class.

 

Read this link to understand DN's, service of papers, termination, etc. ( courtesy of B_R_W) - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2166205.html

 

Just curious as to whether the 2 and 4 day periods apply to correspondance to other countries. It is something that I have raised in other threads for other people abroad dealing with UK debts, but it never seemed to get answered correctly.

 

Just a point for discussion...

 

H

[exchange]

No idea if the same periods apply overseas, H.

 

Can anyone help with a response to RBS as requested in post 31?

 

Thanks for any replies.

[exchange]

Am I right in thinking it is a requirement for the credit card company to send a default notice by recorded or registered post?

I am not in the UK but this came by ordinary post without any signature being required. I might never have received it!

[supasnooper]

Am I right in thinking it is a requirement for the credit card company to send a default notice by recorded or registered post?

I am not in the UK but this came by ordinary post without any signature being required. I might never have received it!

 

 

Nope ...........as long as the Default Notice is served by post or in person, a court will deem it served.

 

I must say I do not know what a judge would say about serving a DN abroad.

 

If creditors choose to serve DN's by unrecorded or unregistered post, that is their problem.

 

When in court, put them to strict proof of the method of service. They would look rather stupid claiming it was sent Recorded or Registered and you wave a 1st or 2nd class envelope under a judge's beady eye

[heliosfa]

I've just been thinking a bit more about the service abroad bit -

7 References to service by post

 

Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

 

The question is "What is the ordinary course of post" for delivery abroad. Clearly the definitions for within the UK cannot be used and I have not found them defined elsewhere.

 

The "Contrary intention" appears here as it arrived with you on the 18th, hence service occured on the 18th. You need to proove this somehow, one way could be to swear an oath infront of a solicitor that it arrived on the 18th, or get a written statement from someone else who had direct knowledge of it arriving on the 18th.

 

What this means - their default is naff.

 

1. For not actually specifying a date. Saying 17 days after the date of this letter doesn't count.
   
2. Even if you do take the date of the letter plus 17 as the resolve by date (28th) you would only have had 10 days to resolve the matter so the default is not compliant.
   

If the more knowledgeable members agree with this interpritation, I think this should be treated as a dodgy default.

 

Do keep the envelope. Just out of curiousity, does it have a postmark and what date does it say? or was it sent by UK Mail?

 

Thanks,

H

[smt37]

Exchange, send the CPR letter again and offer them another 21 days. If they still don't comply, then you can seek a court order to force them to disclose the original agreement (or not as the case may be).

[supasnooper]

Hi exchange,

 

For clarity on this thread, are the creditors sending documents to your address which is outside the U.K. ?

[heliosfa]

... I am not UK resident and do not have a current UK address...

 

I knew I had seen it hidden further up!

[exchange]

Thanks for the replies.

All letters come to my address outside the UK and the DN came in an envelope without a post mark.

I will send the CPR letter again as you suggested smt37, but will adapt to emphasise their non-compliance and wasting everyone's time.

[exchange]

Text message this afternoon asking me to call them urgently which I will ignore.

[Reader]

Subbing

I am a little further behind you so subbing with interest.

[exchange]

Hi reader, the more the merrier!

From reading other threads this will be a long haul.

[exchange]

[ATTACH]9514[/ATTAC

 

Attached termination of my account and demand for payment.

 

Should I respond to this or wait for them to take it further?

termination.pdf

[exchange]

bumping

[exchange]

Anyone?

[underdog13]

Don't think you need to respond to termination notices, exchange.

 

RBS/mint are getting extremely heavy with me despite the fact they have not produced so much as an application form, never mind an agreement:rolleyes:

[r&b]

[ATTACH]9514[/ATTAC

 

Attached termination of my account and demand for payment.

 

Should I respond to this or wait for them to take it further?

 

no need to respond just means they cannot serve any further DNs as a DN requires a running account which can be remedied at some point in the future. if the account is terminated clearly that wud be a tad difficult..

[exchange]

Thanks r&b.

[exchange]

And thanks to underdog13 too.