Lloyds claimform - OH's credit-token, Lloyds Asset Card.Here we go again

[AndyOrch]

I understand now Andy Can you point me in the right direction to download CPR.

 

 

CPR - Rules and Directions - Ministry of Justice

 

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

[shirei12]

Hi Andy,

Do you have any knowledge of PPI? Could I ask for PPI docs on disclosure? My CCA has a pre-ticked box for PPI. I have added up payments (without interest) and they add up to over £4000.

 

Shirei

[Dorabell]

Hi shirei just dropping in seeing how you are getting on:)

[shirei12]

Hi Andy,

Do you have any knowledge of PPI? Could I ask for PPI docs on disclosure? My CCA has a pre-ticked box for PPI. I have added up payments (without interest) and they add up to over £4000.

Edited November 23, 2009 by shirei12

[AndyOrch]

Hi Andy,

Do you have any knowledge of PPI? Could I ask for PPI docs on disclosure? My CCA has a pre-ticked box for PPI. I have added up payments (without interest) and they add up to over £4000.

 

Shirei

 

Hi Shirei

 

Are there any unfair penalty charges involved in the claimants case? I would just tag it on as a Counter Claim if you are sure the PPI was missold or you were mislead.

My advice is to file a c/c.You will have to submit a c/c if you are looking to claim back penalty charges and possibly compensation for their addition to the a/c. The same is true for reclaiming PPI plus damages for it's unlawful addition. Furthermore, if the agreement's unenforceable, there will be various breaches under the Data Protection Act 1998, for which it would be appropriate to seek damages. You may also want to add unlawful harassment to the list also!!for arguments sake if we considered submitting a counter-claim, which serves two purposes. One, it gives you an opportunity to raise arguments in respect of the Claimant's unlawful conduct and claim compensation. Two, c/c's are the perfect bargaining tool to use. So, whilst claiming compensation might not be uppermost in your mind, getting rid of the debt and default definitely are, but if the Claimant starts to doubt their own case,they try to reach an agreement with you before trial date. So to begin with they offer you really reasonable terms to repay the debt and eventually you will get to the point where they say, if you drop your c/c, they will drop their case against you. So it all effectively becomes about negotiation!! IMO, it is highly unlikely they want to proceed this matter to trial, but you have to prepare for that eventuality and do all you can to frighten them into running away and c/c's are th perfect way to do that!

 

I will take a look at your other thread shortly Shirei

 

Regards

 

Andy

[shirei12]

Good Morning Andy,

Regarding the CCA they produced, it is a partially completed (typed) form with the PPI section already marked as required,name,address etc,OH probably thought it was a requirement. The top is marked as Telephony whatever that may mean. There are roughly about £700 in unlawful charges.

When would be the best time to counter claim?

Thanks for taking the time to look at other thread.

Shirei

[AndyOrch]

Anytime during procedure, always better to instigate C/C as a defendent,there are different ways to introduce this procedure ie via a N244 or by submitting an Amended Defence and CounterClaim.The main thing is that you make your intentions to issue this, to the Claimants attention at the appropiate time and as I previously remarked frighten them into withdrawal.You may wish to introduce this new course of action intime for the CMC;)

 

Have a think

 

Regards

 

Andy

[shirei12]

Anytime during procedure, always better to instigate C/C as a defendent,there are different ways to introduce this procedure ie via a N244 or by submitting an Amended Defence and CounterClaim.The main thing is that you make your intentions to issue this, to the Claimants attention at the appropiate time and as I previously remarked frighten them into withdrawal.You may wish to introduce this new course of action intime for the CMC;)

 

Have a think

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

CMC only two weeks away now,best get on with it then. Will you guide me through the counterclaim.Which would you suggest the best N244 or amended defence.( taking in to account that I am rubbish at defence writing as you may remember the state I got into before )

[AndyOrch]

On this occassion I am of two minds,firstly you could submit an amended Defence in light of what as been furnished up to now and the behaviour of the Claimant in this matter.We can attach a Part 20 counter claim to this and submit via the N244 trouble is will cost you £75.00.

The alternitive is to introduce a Witness Statement/Skeleton Argument before the CMC with your intentions to CC and raise the issue of the missold PPI.I would think the second would be a way forward and just as useful in arguing your case and bringing the matter to the DJ attention.

 

Your thoughts?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[shirei12]

I would need your assistance if you dont mind and are not too busy and go ahead with your alternative to N244. What would be a deadline before CMC?

Edited July 31, 2009 by shirei12
typo

[AndyOrch]

Hi Shirei

 

Ok we can draft something suitably fitting on Monday.As long as we submit not less than 7 days we should be okay dokay.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[shirei12]

:DThankyou Andy

[shirei12]

Good Morning Andy,

I have a hospital appoinment this morning so could we make a start on this later today. Will you be available later?

Shirei

[AndyOrch]

Morning Shirei.

 

Yes no problem I will be around,you see to priorities first.Hope all goes well.

 

Regards

 

Andy

Edited August 3, 2009 by Andyorch

[shirei12]

Hi Andy, Ready when you are.

[AndyOrch]

Hi Shirei

 

Ok I have re read your thread.So we intend to introduce a Skeleton argument with view of introducing our intention to C/C at the CMC.This will entail redrafting you main Defence for this inclusion and also containing the Claimants non complience upto date in these proceedings.We should argue our objection to the Claimants application to set a side the DJs order also.We can submit this to Court and copy the Sols without need of making application.

If you can let me have a litttle more detail of the PPI Shirei dates of the agreement,why you would not want PPI how much as been payed etc

then I can start to draft something suitable.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[shirei12]

Okay Andy I will do some caculations and post them up.

[shirei12]

Hi Andy,

The date of the agreement was March 2003,we dont have any t&c's for the PPI so I cant refer to them but the arguement is that the CCA was pre ticked for PPI and OH obviously thought it was a requirment of the agreement. Payments add up to £4228.68. Charges are £667.Not sure if the medication he takes on a daily basis would interfere with any claim he may have needed in the future,he would have been taking them when this agreement was taken out though.

[AndyOrch]

Thanks Shirei

 

So the value of the claim on the Summons ?(ballpark not exact)

[shirei12]

£8000

[AndyOrch]

Excellent so it will be Fast Track also.Its a pity Shirei you did not submit the C/C at the time of your Defence it would have eliviated the need to prepare such submission.However we can still imply our option to proceed with said option without admitting a dam thing.

Ok leave it with me for now and I will Draft you a statement for your perusal with view to submission pre CMC.

 

Regards

 

 

Andy

[shirei12]

Hi Andy,

I didnt have a copy of the CCA when the defence went in,I sent CPR 31.14 request on 17th April and didnt get a reply until 17th June inviting me to withdraw defence and write to courts admitting the total outstanding balance within 10 working days. The court acknowledged my defence on 14th May.

[AndyOrch]

Thats fine Shirei as said leave it with me.

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Ok Shirei first stab at the statement check it over and remove whats not relevent and complete the dates in red.

Skeleton Argument

 

 

1 This statement is made in opposition to the Claimant’s application to Set A Side District Judge (XXXXXInsert name) orders dated xxxxxx and by which the Claimant contends I have no real prospect of successfully defending the claim against me.

 

2 I do not deny that a contract once existed between me and the claimant. I deny the contract endures since on a day prior to the commencement of this case against me, the Defendant terminated the contract.

 

3 I deny that I have ever received an effective default notice from the Claimant prior to the contract being terminated.

 

4 At trial I shall contend that under Section 87 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (The Act) the creditor must deliver a default notice which complies with all of the requirement of Section 88 of the Act and of the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 before the Claimant will become entitled to terminate the agreement and make any demand for early payment. It is my case that no default notice which complied in the respects referred to was ever delivered to me by the Claimant.

 

 

5 The claimant has already admitted in a letter dated xxxxxxx that they are unable to produce a copy of the default notice.

 

6 At trial I will contend that the screenshot,if any,is inadequate for the purpose of demonstrating the Claimant delivered a compliant default notice. Under Section 88 (1) of the Act, for a default notice to be compliant it must be in a prescribed form and specify the nature of the alleged breach; if the breach is capable of remedy, what action is required to remedy it and the date before which that action is to be taken and if the breach is not capable of remedy, the sum (if any) required to be paid as compensation for the breach, and the date before which it is to be paid.

 

7 The Claimant has already given notice that it will be unable to give discovery of the default notice relied upon. In the absence of production of a copy of that default notice together with evidence from a witness having first hand knowledge that the copy so produced was delivered to me, stating the date on which and the means by which the default notice was delivered to me, contrasted with my evidence to the court that a default notice was not delivered to me, I contend that I have more than reasonable prospects of successfully defending the claim against me.

 

Shirei you will have to clarify the following and remove if not applicable

8 Moreover, The claimant claims the default notice was sent on the XXXXXXXX and that the default notice if it could be seen by the court would show it had allowed XX days for me to rectify any default mentioned in it. Under section 88(2) of the Act, the creditor cannot terminate the agreement or demand earlier payment of any sum due under the agreement before the date specified in the default notice. Besides the fact that merely stating the default notice would have allowed XX days is non-compliant with the requirement of section 88 of the Act owing to the need to specify a date (rather than an interval of time), it is telling in terms of the Claimant’s credibility that if the notice was delivered on the XXXXXX and gave XX days for me to rectify any default mentioned in it as the Claimant appears to contend, that the claimant’s solicitor sent a Letter Before Action on the xxxxxxxx demanding payment, being just XX days after the claimant claims the default notice was sent.

 

9 The delivery of the letter before action is good evidence that on or before XX XXXX, the Claimant terminated the agreement.

 

10 In any event, if contrary to my contentions and expectations, the Claimant should prove at trial that a default notice was delivered to me on XXXXXXX the Claimant will be unable to show by reference to that default notice that it subsequently became entitled to terminate the contract. If the termination followed on from the delivery of the default notice on XXXXXXX and which gave to me XX days to rectify any default mentioned in it, the termination of the agreement prior to the expiration of the period given to me in the default notice was a termination which did not then entitle the Claimant to demand earlier repayment.

 

11 Without Prejudice to my main contention set out above it is understood that the amount claimed by the Claimant contains missold PPI to the value of £4228.68 which we /I intend to instigate a Counter Claim in response.The alleged CCA/Application Form produced by the Claimant shows quite clearly that the option was preticked and therefore signifying that this was compulsorynot optional.

 

12 In the circumstances and in addition to my main contention, I contend that until such time as the Claimant has established a legal entitlement to earlier payment and given disclosure of material which unequivocally justifies an entitlement to the sum of money claimed, it is impossible for the Claimant to show and for the court to determine at the hearing of the CMC, that I have no reasonable prospect of showing at trial that the sum of money claimed (whatever that sum may be) is not owing to the Claimant.

 

13 The claimant also claims £667.00 in charges. I refute these are payable. These are default charges levied on the account for alleged late payments. The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 [The Office of Fair Trading v Abbey National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety.

 

14 In the circumstances the court is invited to conclude that there are reasonable grounds to suppose that I will be able to successfully defend the Claimant’s claim at trial and that the Claimant’s application for Set a side on my Directions, against me, should be dismissed.

 

Date: xx August 2009

 

 

Statement of Truth

 

I believe the facts stated in this Statement are true.

Regards

Andy

[shirei12]

Thanks Andy,

Looks good, I will check paperwork for dates etc, I dont think we ever received LBA. The last letter I had from AIC (LTSB Clients) who were in breach of CCA request was 16th Feb 2009 still trying to collect. Then I had letter from **** on 25th Feb. Should a LBA have those words as a heading.

Also can we make mention of letter that implied Judgement?