bailifs visiting friend for bogus debt - help!

[felicity2009]

Hi! I hope someone can help!

 

Many years ago I claimed housing benefit while I was unemployed and signing on for a year.

 

I have ADD and Autism, and I'm not good at remembering to do things, or paperwork. From time to time I would sign on on the wrong day, this would mean I'd get signed off for a few days. I'd sign straight back on again.

 

Several years later letters were sent from Islington council to me at a friends address where I'd stayed for a while claiming that the housing benefit was in fact an overpayment and wanting me to pay £2500.

 

It seems that when I signed back on after temporarily forgetting to sign, Islington council had not been made aware of this. I emailed and told them about their mistake and that I'd been signing on for the whole period and even the few days I had technically not been signing on I was still entitled to the HB.

 

We emailed back and forth a while, with them just sending a blanket insistence they overpaid, which they didn't.

 

Then on Christmas eve my friend, who is mentally ill and very easily distressed got what we think is a posession order (long since lost). Then a 'sherrif of the high court' or a 'high sherrif of the court' (she is not sure) woke her up at 6.30am. She said I no longer lived there, but did not say where I lived.

 

Today something arrived - High Court form 55 - saying it was a 'notice of legal control of goods' and demanding £2500 be sent to what I assume is debt collection agency.

 

Has anyone any idea of what to do? I've tried getting a lawyer to help, but none of the legal aid ones want new clients and neither of us have enough money to hire a private one.

 

Any help appreciated!

 

[update]

 

I have the paperwork in front of me now.

 

It says..

 

Sherforce high court enforcement

 

High Court Form No. 55 - Notice of seizure

 

In the high court of justice, queens bench division, district registry

High court claim number

County Court claim number

Send from Edmonton County Court by Certificate, date etc

 

Notice of legal control of goods etc..

 

Sherforce has taken legal control of goods at [friend's place]

 

A formal seizure of the goods at the above address has been made under a Writ of Execution etc..

 

 

It also says that enclosed wiith this notice is a 'walking possession agreement' but I don't see one. It says I must sign it to acknowledge seizure.

 

It says their own charges ('charges of the authorised high court enforcement officer') are £800+

 

I've been reading round the forum since I first posted. That seems high if this was originally a CCJ, but I'm not sure if it was

 

Then there is a letter attached saying I have to phone them to 'discuss payment of a high court judgement debt'.

Edited April 16, 2009 by felicity2009
update

[felicity2009]

The high court said it was a county court matter, and the county court said it only came to them for enforcement. It is likely the original decision was taken by a housing benefits tribunal.

 

No-one even told me there was a hearing.

 

Now my friend is sobbing on the kitchen floor, petrified of every footstep outside. It took years of drugs and therapy to get her functional again, and now she is back to square one.

[diamondgirl]

Please tell your friend help will soon be to hand I am sure. This needs someone with far more knowledge than I have.

DG

[felicity2009]

I told her that. She said 'thank you' and then she ate a cake. That means shes feeling better.

 

I'd like to stay with her a few days, but I'm worried she will feel more at risk if I do :/

[diamondgirl]

Surely a bit of company will do her good why should she feel more at risk if you stop?DG

[Ell-enn]

Hi here, I'm sorry to hear of the trouble you and your friend are going through at the moment.

 

I am moving your thread to the Bailiffs forum where it will be more visible to those who can help you best.

 

Ell-enn

[felicity2009]

We assumed if she let them in and showed I'm not there, they will go away. I doubt they will now I've read this site.

 

She is so vulnerable too. One time she paid bailiffs for a bill she didn't even owe - some utility bill as I recall. She had already paid it off.

 

I told her the story about the dobermans biting the bailiffs on the ass - I read it here somewhere here. She likes that story! She won't let me buy her a doberman though

 

I just read the Housing Benefit Act and lodged an official complaint with Islington Council (Ombudsman next). Even if there really had been a real overpayment, it would have been unrecoverable on at least two grounds - 1) we are both mentally vulnerable 2) if it had been an overpayment it would have been because DWP failed to tell HB I'd signed off (Part 13 regulation 100). So either there was a real unenforceable overpayment, or there a fictitious overpayment.

 

But there wasn't one. Even I would have noticed housing benefit cheques that arrived without me signing on. Because it would have been a miracle!

 

Incidentally, it was over a year I was unemployed looking at the email from the council. Either that or they are trying to reclaim payments I never saw. I dunno which yet. My time-sense is not like other peoples. I shall have to wait and see what the department of work and pensions digs up in their paper records.

 

I suppose it is possible the Council sent out HB cheques to addresses I'd long since moved out of, then they just assumed I'd cashed them :/

 

[Edited to add]

 

Oh thanks Ell-en!

 

I didn't see a specific forum for bailiffs when I first arrived. Wasn't visible from what looked like the forum homepage. But I have ADD. I could have missed something.

[Guest Happy Contrails]

 

I have ADD and Autism, and I'm not good at remembering to do things.

 

Is this medically diagnosed?

 

Contact your doctor immediately and get written evidence of your condition because you are probably exempt from civil enforcement. You are also in receipt of prescribed benefits and this also excludes you. More: Department for Constitutional Affairs - Enforcement - National Standards for Enforcement Agents

 

Make copies of the document and send one to Islington Council. Hand one to the bailiff through a window if he turns up. Do not open the door or say your name. Call police on 999 if a bailiff causes a public disturbance or threatens to commit breaking & entering.

 

Do not fret, they cannot commit breaking and entering, Sherforce statutory powers are similar to a common debt collector.

 

In any event, their fees £800 do not sit right. The law prescribing bailiffs fees for collecting unpaid county court judgments is County Court Fees Order(Amended 1994) 1982 and the fee is £45. The bailiff has committed a criminal offence called Fraud by false representation and its an offence under Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006. You have a right to make a complaint against the bailiff to police who should investigate.

 

It makes no difference if the CCJ has been transferred up to the High Court for enforcement, the law doesn't provide for bailiff to increase their fees.

[felicity2009]

Oh thats an excellent idea, Happy - the doc!

 

I'm not on benefits any more - those places are really really bad if you can't stand noise, lights or ambiguous language. Plus people are nasty to you for forgetting paperwork but remembering the rules. And I'm half deaf and can't hear a damn thing in there.

 

I can work just fine, in a darkened room away from annoying things. Hyperfocus and a systematic nature then become gifts, not disabilities.

 

The ex-flatmate is on benefits though. I'm thinking her benefits letter, some kind of incapacity proof (I know she has a ton of stuff) and something from the doc about me. If my GP even knows - I'm not sure he does. It was just mentioned to me once by a shrink in a letter - almost in passing. I realised he was right and made the appropriate adjustments to my lifestyle. Never needed to sign on again and as theres no medical treatment for autism I never thought to mention it to my GP.

 

>It makes no difference if the CCJ has been transferred up to the High Court for enforcement, the law doesn't provide for bailiff to increase their fees.

 

Yeah, I thought that might be the case from reading here today. Thanks for confirming it! I'm going to have some fun with that. Not that the police will do anything, and I'll have to make a complaint - but as someone else here said - Sherforce the bailiffs appear to be a firm of solicitors.

 

I wonder if you can report a crime in writing? Policemen are not systematic thinkers, generally. Face to face conversation with them is difficult for me.

 

Ironically, one of the few places I feel at home is a courtroom!

 

[chris600uk]

I wonder if you can report a crime in writing? Policemen are not systematic thinkers, generally. Face to face conversation with them is difficult for me.

 

yes you can, initially you can write to the Chief Constable, although you will have to make a complaint in person to a policemen who must write it down.

 

But by starting at the top, you ensure that someone will get back to you.

[felicity2009]

Ah, that would be good. Once there is the basic structure of the letter, it would be easy to talk to an officer who knows they are supposed to talk to you about it. Its a framework. Approved by their boss

 

[update]

 

My friend read this entire thread, then half a pizza vanished. Either I have two crimes to report or thats a complete recovery

 

Thank you everyone!

Edited April 16, 2009 by felicity2009

[Guest Happy Contrails]

Writing direct to the cheif constable sounds like a good plan. Smart thinking Chris.

 

Felicity, a basic letter to police to get you started.

 

The Chief Constable

Name of Police Authority

Address 1

Address 2

Address 3

Postcode

 

DATE

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Reporting a crime committed under the Fraud Act 2006

 

I enclose a document given to me by a man saying he is a bailiff and made a threat of committing breaking & entering without a warrant and take goods unless I pay him £2500. He says he is charging me fees of £800 and I understand the law provides £45.00 only if a county court judgment exists.

 

I write to you understanding that a person who is trying to con me out of money in this way commits an offence under Sections 2 and 4 of the Fraud Act 2006 because it is classed as Fraud by false representation. I also understand that the bailiff is pretending to have a 'walking possessions agreement' and is fraudulently claiming to have a right to commit breaking and entering. I understand this may be an offence under the Crimnal Law Act.

 

I have autism and find it difficult to communicate verbally especially in difficult circumstances so I would prefer communication is made in writing. I have sought advice and I understand I may be classed as a vulnerable person for the purposes of civil enforcement defined by the National Standards for Enforcement Agents.

 

Please assign a crime reference number and I ask these matters are professionally and objectively investigated and I am happy to help you in your enquiries.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

 

 

YOUR NAME

Enc: copy of document

[felicity2009]

OMG Happy! You're hired!! Would have taken me a ten page letter...

[diamondgirl]

I said you would get lots of help and I wish you both very good luck.

DG

[felicity2009]

Just an update.

 

The department of work and pensions have sent me a letter detailing what they have on computer. Its not much so they are digging through their paper records.

 

What they have sent though confirms my personal recollection, such as it is

 

 

 

I have a to-do list a mile long now. I've sent in..

 

1) a freedom of information request to see about getting hold of a certain contract with certain bailiffs. Done via email.

 

2) a letter to the police. On paper.

 

3) a formal complaint to the council they will probably ignore. Via a form on their website.

 

 

I doubt if anyone will join the dots on that and predict whats coming next from it. I mean part of the reason we are not even on insult trading terms with the pretend bailiffs is that I don't want them to know picking on me and my friend is likely to turn out different to picking on anyone else.

 

But I was wondering if there was any particular order I should do the following in, considering tactical issues such as not alerting the council to the fact it is about to be put under a microscope (I'm worried they will dispose of anything incriminating) and the fact that some things will be time-barred if I leave them too late.

 

1) Judicial review (seems to be a good way of reopening the secret tribunal. As I was never notified of any tribunal I can't appeal - as I don't know what the hell I'm appealing against).

 

I like that one as its possible to get enough compensation to feed my ex-flatmate so much cake she'll forget all the trauma. Plus the Judge has a wide remit and can kick serious butt and get them to change proceedures.

 

2) Data protection subject access request, to the council. If they have more information than they used, they screwed up, if they have nothing much I'll be wondering where they stuck all the paperwork they had me filling in for years.

 

3) Complaint to the information commissioners about the council a) taking automated decisions b) taking decisions on incomplete or erroneous data.

 

4) Local government ombudsman.

 

 

I would like, if possible, to have everything land on their heads at once. The less time they have to think, the less time they have to cover things up. I'm slightly hampered in that the complete Department of Work and Pensions data will likely not be here for at least six weeks and I'm going to need that for the data protection (Information Commissioners) complaint.

 

Any thoughts on these matters would be welcome.