Unenforceable Credit Agreements - Scotland

[tradey_08]

Is it the same procedure in Scotland? Does anyone know if there have been any successes?

 

Many Thanks in advance....considering taking ona few credit card companies!

[maroondevo52]

Hi,

 

Yes, as far as know, and there's no doubt there will have been successes.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[FlyboyAgain]

Hi,

 

Yes, as far as know, and there's no doubt there will have been successes.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

 

 

Are you sure? I'm considering using CPR 31.16 but I don't want to put my foot in it if it's not accepted in Scotland.

[maroondevo52]

Are you sure? I'm considering using CPR 31.16 but I don't want to put my foot in it if it's not accepted in Scotland.

 

Hi,

 

The CPR does not apply in Scotland - it is part of the English legal system.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[buzby]

Do also remember than many of htese contracts are constituted and deemed to be complaint with English Law, and the borrower must agree to this. It is not sufficient to be resident in Scotland and claim that you want Scottish Law to decide.

[craigers]

I've often pondered about what buzby said regarding English/Scots Law. Whilst I feel it does open up the possibility of using CPR, you might need to be prepared to bring a case in an English court, which is a pain in the derrier if you're nowhere near the border. I'm not sure if anything you received under CPR could be used in a Scottish court.

[FlyboyAgain]

Ok, here's an update.

 

Wife and I have a loan each from HBoS and several cards. The bank complied, after much heel-kicking, with our CCA requests, without having anything like the CPR instrument available in England.

 

The two loans look ok to us, so we've restarted paying the instalments again. All of the credit cards, however, look unenforceable. I'd like to know what to do next. Do I just 'shelve' them or what?

 

There is a similar thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/165349-smt37-morgan-stanley-goldfish-13.html#post2250605 which discusses this but is in England. So what are the alternatives in Scotland? I just feel that a bit of an impasse has been reached and am wary of, in the near future, some golf-course deal being made where the law gets changed and the evil ones come after me again for the debt, this time armed with ammo to enforce the debt.

 

Anyone?

Edited June 27, 2009 by FlyboyAgain
Additions

[IdaInFife]

there's not an equivalent up here

 

alot of it is ping pong letters and it tends to be better if they take you to court with an uneforceable agreement to get rid

 

ida x

[FlyboyAgain]

there's not an equivalent up here

 

alot of it is ping pong letters and it tends to be better if they take you to court with an uneforceable agreement to get rid

 

ida x

 

I thought as much. The bank has virtually dried up on them; the DCA, though, still keep calling, but they've got a f****** fright coming.

 

Thx, Ida, you have been a gem to me.

[FlyboyAgain]

Let me give you a laugh.

 

A copy of one of my agreements has just flown through the door, this time from Blair, Oliver & Scott. The T&Cs are still on a separate document, but this document states my current address, not the address I was at when I took the card out many years ago, so there are two different adresses!

 

How can the be so daft??

Edited July 6, 2009 by FlyboyAgain
Additions

[maroondevo52]

 

How can the be so daft??

 

They've had a lot of practice

[buzby]

And weren't you clever fo noticing?

 

I look forward to Round 2!

[FlyboyAgain]

I fear there never will be a round 2. I've noticed that in England they can use CPR 31.14 to force the lender to present the document. I know there is no such instrument in Scotland, so I'm a bit puzzled as where to go next with this.

[FlyboyAgain]

Anyone?

[FlyboyAgain]

Ok, I am subbing to this thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html and I, too, would like to bring come sort of closure, if possible, to all these reels and jigs the banks are dragging me into and I don't want to have these accounts in limbo for years for certain sections to get repealled (as has happened before) and then it's all on again in the banks favour.

 

So, in the absence of CPR31.16 - and the clear probability that these accounst are not enforceable - is it now favourable for me to use s.142 ( to get them struck out) or is there another avenue that can or needs to be followed first?

Edited July 16, 2009 by FlyboyAgain
spelling

[24233513afw]

Hi FlyboyAgain

 

Iam new to all this and I am curious to what s.142 (to get them struck out) can you explain.

We too have got unenforceable agreements (Blank copies)sent to us and now are going to Subject Access Request them to see if they do hold the original I know it is going to cost us another £10 for each one (We should have done when we requested our charges when we paid £10 then) but hopefully it should give us a better picture.

Tell me...have you went down the SAR road yourself or was it the same as us just applied for the CCA with £1 P.O.

Like yourself we would like closure also they are refusing to refund all our charges and we feel if we had the knowledge whether they had the original or not would give us a better fight against them, but obviously they know this too and are keeping this until the very last gasp...where knowing our luck they will produce it.

Good luck with your fight ....don't give in I know the letter writing is a bit of a bummer, I shall let you know what reply we get from SAR.

Cheers

AFW

[FlyboyAgain]

Hi FlyboyAgain

 

Iam new to all this and I am curious to what s.142 (to get them struck out) can you explain.

We too have got unenforceable agreements (Blank copies)sent to us and now are going to Subject Access Request them to see if they do hold the original I know it is going to cost us another £10 for each one (We should have done when we requested our charges when we paid £10 then) but hopefully it should give us a better picture.

Tell me...have you went down the SAR road yourself or was it the same as us just applied for the CCA with £1 P.O.

Like yourself we would like closure also they are refusing to refund all our charges and we feel if we had the knowledge whether they had the original or not would give us a better fight against them, but obviously they know this too and are keeping this until the very last gasp...where knowing our luck they will produce it.

Good luck with your fight ....don't give in I know the letter writing is a bit of a bummer, I shall let you know what reply we get from SAR.

Cheers

AFW

 

I'm in a bit of a rush juts now but go here Results within legislation - Statute Law Database to read up on the Act and its sections.

 

I say that you should try the CCA route as it worked for me: RBS gave up the ghost right away; HBoS supplied two correct loan agreements and 4 unenforecable credit card agreements.

 

Will have alook again later.

[IdaInFife]

my thoughts:

 

you can ask a copy for docs via an incidental application but as far as i know this can only be done when court proceedings have already begun.

 

ida x

[FlyboyAgain]

Hi FlyboyAgain

 

Iam new to all this and I am curious to what s.142 (to get them struck out) can you explain.

We too have got unenforceable agreements (Blank copies)sent to us and now are going to Subject Access Request them to see if they do hold the original I know it is going to cost us another £10 for each one (We should have done when we requested our charges when we paid £10 then) but hopefully it should give us a better picture.

Tell me...have you went down the SAR road yourself or was it the same as us just applied for the CCA with £1 P.O.

Like yourself we would like closure also they are refusing to refund all our charges and we feel if we had the knowledge whether they had the original or not would give us a better fight against them, but obviously they know this too and are keeping this until the very last gasp...where knowing our luck they will produce it.

Good luck with your fight ....don't give in I know the letter writing is a bit of a bummer, I shall let you know what reply we get from SAR.

Cheers

AFW

 

Why are they refusing to refund your charges?

[FlyboyAgain]

Ok, I am subbing to this thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html and I, too, would like to bring come sort of closure, if possible, to all these reels and jigs the banks are dragging me into and I don't want to have these accounts in limbo for years for certain sections to get repealled (as has happened before) and then it's all on again in the banks favour.

 

So, in the absence of CPR31.16 - and the clear probability that these accounst are not enforceable - is it now favourable for me to use s.142 ( to get them struck out) or is there another avenue that can or needs to be followed first?

 

Bump for this.

[goodbadrum]

I was advised to use S(142)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dealing-debt-scotland/184727-need-advice-very-old-4.html#post2276916

 

Which I might if I knew

The costs

The likelihood of victory

 

At the end of the day IMHO it doesn't hurt to make the DCA/OC aware that you know of it's existence

[FlyboyAgain]

I was advised to use S(142)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dealing-debt-scotland/184727-need-advice-very-old-4.html#post2276916

 

Which I might if I knew

The costs

The likelihood of victory

 

At the end of the day IMHO it doesn't hurt to make the DCA/OC aware that you know of it's existence

 

 

That's my quandary. After learning on this forum that one will have to 'educate' the Judge/Sheriff on point sof the Act and as someone else says on another thread re S142 'S142 permits the court to make a determination'. Note that word 'determination'. I'd hate to get that far and have the beak blow it out of the water.

 

Agreed re s142 existence.

Edited July 16, 2009 by FlyboyAgain
Additions

[goodbadrum]

That's my quandary. After learning on this forum that one will have to 'educate' the Judge/Sheriff on point sof the Act and as someone else says on another thread re S142 'S142 permits the court to make a determination'. Note that word 'determination'. I'd hate to get that far and have the beak blow it out of the water.

 

Agreed re s142 existence.

 

The relevant section

 

142.—(1) Where under any provision of this Act a thing can be done by a creditor or owner on an enforcement order only, and either—

 

(a) the court dismisses (except on technical grounds only) an application for an enforcement order, or

 

(b) where no such application has been made or such an application has been dismissed on technical grounds only, an interested party applies to the court for a declaration under this subsection

 

the court may if it thinks just make a declaration that the creditor or owner is not entitled to do that thing, and thereafter no application for an enforcement order in respect of it shall be entertained.

 

(2) Where—

 

(a) a regulated agreement or linked transaction is cancelled under section 69(1), or becomes subject to section 69(2), or

 

(b) a regulated agreement is terminated under section 91, and an interested party applies to the court for a declaration under this subsection, the court may make a declaration. to that effect.

 

 

The more I read it the more I lean towards the interpretation that if a debtor was succesful using this section, the position would remain the same,

 

I.E just because the OC cannot produce an enforceable CCA at that time, they could at a later date and recommence collection procedures.

 

I would love my reading of that section to be wrong, but I cannot find the bit in s(142) that would tell the OC to "write it off and leave the debtor alone"

[IdaInFife]

if the agreement is improperly executed and can only be enforced by a court order for example as it does not contain the prescribed terms or like, then you can seek a declaration that states it cannot be enforced pursuant to s142(1)

 

just means they cannot enforce the agreement

 

read as same as goodbadrum

 

ida x

[seriously fed up]

Do also remember than many of htese contracts are constituted and deemed to be complaint with English Law, and the borrower must agree to this. It is not sufficient to be resident in Scotland and claim that you want Scottish Law to decide.

 

See the Civil Jurisdiction Act Schedule 8 Rule 3 (4)at Civil Jurisdiction and Judgments Act 1982 (c. 27)

I would certainly look to rely on that.

:grin: