HSBC eventually produced CCA

[citizenB]

Was this a CCA request (£1.00) or a SAR (DAP) request (£10.00) ?

 

It looks to me as though HSBC arent too sure

[johno23]

It was a CCA request then A CPR 31 request.

 

They are saying under data protection Act they do not have to supply CCA until a signature is provided.

 

HSBC response letter is a result from Cerbs letter in post 22

Edited April 23, 2009 by johno23

[cerberusalert]

You never requested the CCA under the SAR Act 1998, you asked for it under the CCA Act 1974 where there is no mention of a signature being required. They are in default now anyway, and other that being bloody minded why are they so adamant...possibly because they don't have an enforceable CCA?

 

Anyway, time now to make a complaint to the OFT The Office of Fair Trading: Debt collection practices and the Information Commissioners Office https://www.ico.gov.uk/Global/contact_us.aspx

[johno23]

correct I asked for it under the CCA 1974, but unfortunately they have produced a valid agreement, just took HSBC five months to provide it when I eventually signed (scibbled something) a letter.

 

I am trying to claim interest charged during the five months.

[johno23]

Ok i have managed to scan my agreement on here. Can anyone inform me if it is valid or not

 

 

Should this not also have the a signature from the bank to make it enforceable.

[izools]

Just send them another reply along the lines of "with regard to your letter recieved 23rd April 2009 you suggest that I made a request persuant to S. 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 and this is the reason you requested a signiature prior to releasing the data I requested.

 

To confirm, you appear to have misinterpreted the nature of my request. The request was NOT made persuant to Section 7 of the DPA1998, it was made persuant to S. 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act, within which no such requirment to supply sufficient evidence to verify my identity exist.

 

Given that my request was made pursuant to S. 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and not the Data Protection Act 1998, the provisions of the Data Protection Act do not apply.

 

Kindly revise all my correspondence thus far and reconsider your stance on this matter..."

 

 

Something along those lines should do

[cerberusalert]

They can't hide behind the Data Protection Act either according to the Information Commissioners Office;

 

 

Data Protection Act Good Practice Notes:

 

2. Do you have enough information to be sure of the requester’s identity?

Often you will have no reason to doubt a person’s identity. For example, if a person with whom you have regular contact sends a letter from their known address it may be safe to assume that they are who they say they are.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8861&d=1242456802

[itstheone]

Should this not also have the a signature from the bank to make it enforceable.

 

Close, it hasn't been executed properly

[johno23]

ok here is an update.

 

I have been fighting tooth and nail that i did not have to provide a signature on the request for a credit agreement as it was not made on a data protection request. I informed them that they have sent sensitive information like bank statements, cash cards & cheque books without the need of a signature, so they have breached there own data protection if it is the case that they require a signature for all data purpoaes.

 

They have now sent me a letter stating that they are looking in to my case and will give the banks final respnse to this matter in 30 days.

 

I have said that if the account is not placed in order from when the account when into dispute until when this matter is resolved, i want it to be dealt with by the FOS, who are already aware of the situation.

 

Fingers crossed!!

[johno23]

well 30 days are up tomorrow when the main office in London were going to repond to my complaint by, still no response.

 

I will wait till tuesday and see then send another letter requesting a decision in 14 days.

 

also on the 28th april they paid me £80 in adjustment interest but have not informed me as to why. I am still waiting for approx another 300. The amazing thing is HSBC have let this go on for three months more by arguing that they did not provide the agreement until i signed a letter. However the account is still in dispute and no interest can be added until it is resolved.

 

Simple banking eh!!

[johno23]

well i have still had no reply to my complaint regarding claiming interest back from when the account was in dispute from taking 5 months to supply me valid CCA.

 

I have made it clear to HSBC once they repay the interest i will make payment.

 

Typical bank that dont listen or read any letters. They have now sent me a DN notice that only gives 14 days from date of the letter.

 

How bizarre of them.

 

What should i do now, wait for them to pass it to a DCA.

 

Also the main office were meant to be giving me a final response with in 30 days but still issues me with an invalid default notice.

 

Do they not want paying, i only wanted approx £300 and then would have to pay £2500 on a credit card, seems so daft of them, that they prefer to receive no money and default me instead of receiving money!!

[cerberusalert]

Can you post up that DN? It sounds defective to me as giving you 14 days to remedy is not correct, it must give a date to remedy by which must be no less than 14 days from receipt of the notice.

[johno23]

DN notice sent I think by first class but cannot prove it.

 

Can you believe they have sent me this notice when i sent them a complaint letter on the 24th April 09, then the main office in London sent me a letter telling me on the 7th May they were looking in to the matter and giving me the banks final response with in 30 days. Still not heard anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[citizenB]

How can they get it so wrong. They are legally obliged to give you 14 CLEAR days. The DN above gives you just 14 days from the date of the DN. No allowance has been made for posting which is 2 WORKING days via 1st class and 4 WORKING days via 2nd class (business) mail.

 

Did you keep the envelope ?, especially if it was 2nd or Business mail:D

 

Do NOT return any credit cards to them.. even if you have cut it into a zillion pieces.

[johno23]

cheers Citizen

 

not sure about postage as no did not keep envelope.

 

I will go on the basis that it is second class, then they have to prove it was first.

 

would not waste a stamp sending them anything!

 

But why do you not send any card back to them?

 

Also what are my steps to take now!

 

Do not think there is a default on my credit file as yet.

 

What does it really mean as they have an invalid DN, what am i able to do to get it removed and pay the arrears if this is all i have to pay!

thanks

 

Paul J

[cerberusalert]

You have to wait now until they send a 'Termination Notice' as soon as they do this the only legal claim they will have are the arrears on the a/c. In effect because the DN is defective the remaining balance will be wiped out. So keep that DN very close to your chest.

[johno23]

How hard will it be to get the default off my credit file

[citizenB]

cheers Citizen

 

not sure about postage as no did not keep envelope.

 

I will go on the basis that it is second class, then they have to prove it was first.

 

would not waste a stamp sending them anything!

 

But why do you not send any card back to them?

 

Also what are my steps to take now!

 

Do not think there is a default on my credit file as yet.

 

What does it really mean as they have an invalid DN, what am i able to do to get it removed and pay the arrears if this is all i have to pay!

thanks

 

Paul J

 

 

I cant find the thread at the moment. Apparently someone returned their card, cut up as requested. It was produced in court as evidence the defendant had signed the agreement. I imagine there was more to it than just that .. but better safe than sorry.

[JD2009]

I cant find the thread at the moment. Apparently someone returned their card, cut up as requested. It was produced in court as evidence the defendant had signed the agreement. I imagine there was more to it than just that .. but better safe than sorry.

 

I believe the thread CitizenB is referring to is the "Tragic case of judgement ...." one below:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/179236-tragic-case-judgement-because.html

[johno23]

Ok an update

 

HSBC failed to provide a CCA until a signed a letter. I orginally sent a CCA request in October 08. I was sent a letter requesting a signature in March, so a did a squiggle as a signature and they provided an enforceable CCA. I have since this has been produced in April still placed the account in Dispute as i wanted all the interest paid back that I thought was due throughout waiting for my CCA request.

 

HSBC have refused to pay back the interest and still issued an invalid default notice on the 22nd April.

 

Now to my surprise the account has been passed to CapQuest who say they are the management agents of HSBC.

 

Has anyone any ideas to what my response should be and heads up on Capquest.

 

Many Thanks

[citizenB]

Hmm, CapQuest are a nasty bunch.

 

I am not sure where you are at the moment.

 

You have received a CCA, was it in order ? we know the DN was pretty much rubbish.

 

What outcome are you hoping for, are there charges you need to reclaim ? are you hoping to offer a f&f.

 

If the CCA is rubbish as well, then we can sort out a letter for you to send to CapQuest advising the account is still in dispute and HSBC are in breach of OFT guidelines by passing this account on.

[johno23]

blank

Edited July 22, 2009 by johno23
confidential info in letter

[citizenB]

Johno, I have flagged your post up for the more experienced site team members to comment on.

[steven4064]

Johno

 

I don'tthink you can do this - you cannot just put the account in dispute. Whilst they had not complied with your request under s77/78, they were in default and could not take enfrcement action (like sending a DN). Once they habe complied, though, the account is no longer in dispute for that reason.

 

Also, a lot of your argument above is not correct - you need to really understand the role of CCA and DPA - I don't think you do.

 

If Capquest have bought the debt, you should have been sent a Notice of Assignment. They may just be acting on behalf of HSBC though. If they have bought the debt, send them a request for the agreement under s77/78 of the CCA - they almost certainly won't have it and will pass the debt back to HSBC.

[johno23]

Thanks Stephen.

 

From the advice I have received from this thread, I thought the account remained in dispute as they took from October until March to provide an agreement.

 

I continued to dispute the interest they had applied to the account during this time. I made it quite clear to HSBC once they paid back the interest whilst the account was in default due to not supplying a CCA then I would start to make payment again.

 

I was led to believe that during October and March they could not apply interest or put adverse history on my credit file which they continued to do.

 

All advice has been on the site not to sign your CCA request letter, which i did not until March.

 

HSBC then sent a default notice on the 22nd April, only nearly a month after they supplied an agreement, only as i did a squiggle on another letter requesting a CCA.

 

I therefore felt the account was still in dispute until they returned my account to normal due to their lack of cooperating from my original request in october for a CCA.

 

very hard to explain in writing but hope you get the gist

 

thanks