Anyone?

As expected I have received the latest 'threat-o-gram' from BCW a couple of days ago. That's 4 so far:- 1st) Phishing letter, 2nd) Formal Demand, 3rd) Final Notice). All ignored. This latest headed 'Notice of Impending Further Action' saying that they will have no option if I don't contact them, but to 'recommend' to their client AK to take further action which 'may include', 'could result in' CCJ etc.etc. ... oh and this time included a direct debit mandate! Well their last 'Final Notice' letter basically said the same, but with less red ink and no direct debit mandate that time. I am aware that BCW have no powers themselves, hence my reluctance so far to engage with them unnecessarily and encourage them. So, should I send them the account has been in dispute with MBNA since 2009 letter (despite MBNA's denial in 2009 of a valid dispute) or continue to ignore and risk seeing what comes next? I know it's my call, but would really appreciate the thoughts of those with more experience of BCW or, more pertinently, AK's tactics.

Thanks andyorch .... and blueda. I'm probably due another missive in the next day or two from BCW going by others' experiences, which would almost certainly cross with any letter I might send. Will therefore probably wait for that before deciding whether to send a letter telling them this has been in dispute since 2009. Don't really want to pull BCW's chain as they are only a DCA, but suspect AK have bought as a job lot without paperwork or being aware of any prior dispute. I do wonder whether there is any pattern to which debts AK chase directly and which they ship out to the likes of BCW to chase for them?

Hi again, Further letter received - "Final Notice" from BCW - usual threats of "will recommend AK proceed to litigation if no response" etc. Seems identical chain of letters to other threads I have read where people are being chased by this bunch. To date have ignored all correspondence as MBNA never provided an enforceable CCA three years ago, only a completely irrelevant copy of an MBNA agreement and terms. No comments/advice were received in response to my last post #40. So any thoughts/advice would be really appreciated. Continue to ignore? or should I reply with regard to no CCA? Should this thread be moved to Debt Collection Sub-Forum? Site team? Anyone?

Wow, I cannot believe almost 3 years have elapsed! Shame it wasn't 6! Alas, this matter has reared its ugly head again after almost 2 years of complete silence and any advice would be appreciated. Brief background: Early 2009 I wrote to MBNA explaining financial hardship and asking them to accept reduced payments/freeze interest on Abbey Credit Card - refused despite having account for around 15 years and never late or missed payments. MBNA continued to demand full payments and charged full interest resulting in account exceeding limit enabling them to charge a further £12 each month as well as £12 for less than minimum payments being made. Having discovered CAG, I sent a s78 CCA request - with no response received. An Account in Dispute letter was subsequently sent some time later and eventually, weeks later, I received a copy of a then 'current' MBNA agreement with my name and address details typed in and copy terms and conditions with a covering letter basically saying "here are the original and current agreements and T & Cs". I wrote back stating that there were no copies of any original agreement and T&Cs enclosed and advising that current MBNA agreement and T&Cs are not sufficient. (The account was an historic Abbey National card not MBNA) and I advised that the account was therefore in legal dispute. MBNA wrote back saying they had provided all they were obliged to provide under s78 and denied the account was in dispute and continued to demand full payment of arrears etc. I continued with my nominal payments, although I did advise them in my "account in dispute letter" that I was no longer obliged to pay. This situation continued with the balance ever increasing due to interest and charges, until I received a Default Notice from MBNA in late 2009. Shortly thereafter, Experto Credite wrote saying they were acting for Varde who had been assigned the debt by MBNA. I never received anything from MBNA at all advising of the assignment. I stopped all payment to MBNA and did not contact or pay anything to Experto, who subsequently sent several letters, often with months between them, until these mysteriously stopped in late 2010 and I have heard nothing since ...... until now. I have in the last couple of weeks received letters from Buchanan Clark & Wells stating that they are acting for Aktiv Kapital who have acquired the MBNA debt from Varde/Experto and demanding full payment or they will "recommend AK proceed to litigation, although AK would of course prefer an amicable settlement". I have so far ignored the letters, but having read up on a couple of AK related threads, it seems that AK are becoming more aggressive in issuing claims. I would appreciate some thoughts/guidance on whether to respond to BCW stating that the account has been in dispute with MBNA since 2009 due to MBNA's failure to comply adequately with a S78 CCA request and failure to provide a copy of an enforceable CCA agreement and suggest they inform AK accordingly, or should I continue to ignore? Thanks in advance for any advice.

I believe the thread CitizenB is referring to is the "Tragic case of judgement ...." one below: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/179236-tragic-case-judgement-because.html

Thanks again Blueda

Hi Willy53, You could try Payplan Debt Management Plans, Free Debt Management Company and IVAs | Debt Advice | Payplan . They are a charity and are not sponsored by the Banks like CCCS. I've not dealt with them myself (yet), but from many other posts on this forum they seem to be the most helpful, and do not charge for their advice. Hope this helps.

Thanks Blueda, much appreciated. Is there a template letter or suggested wording for complaints to the OFT as I cannot find one, but may be just looking in the wrong place?

Looks like Abbey are ignoring my Account In Dispute letter and request under CPR Protocols (now there's a surprise!) as I have now received a letter headed "Notice of Sums In Arrears". The letter basically says that they are required to send the same under the Consumer Credit Act when the last two minimum payments have not been paid. (I have made reduced payments, although Abbey have not agreed to my proposal). The letter goes on to say that failure to pay the arrears and future contractual payments could result in further default sums being applied and furthermore that they may consider recovery action including registration of a default with the CRAs and sale of the debt to a thrid party. I take it that this letter is pretty standard and is not an formal Default Letter? I am thinking that I should write back sending them a further copy of my earlier Account In Dispute letter and point out that until they provide a compliant copy of the original Credit Agreement they are not allowed to take any action whatsoever. Can anyone with greater experience suggest suitable wording for such a letter, and/or is there a better way to deal with this latest correspondence (filing it and forgetting it comes to mind, however, if or when this comes to court action, I suppose it will be best to show that I replied accordingly to their correspondence, if only to show that it is they who did not comply with my legal requests for a copy of my agreement). Any guidance would be very much appreciated.

Thanks a million Cosalt that's exactly what I thought. I don't know if you had chance to see my edit which included a link to a thread regarding a Lloyd's reply, which is what made me wonder. I am definitely thinking of sending them a SAR request as my next step, it's just a case of finding time to visit the Post Office for a Postal Order and to send Special Delivery as my current job doesn't give me any opportunity during weekdays to visit the Post Office and this Saturday morning is also out due to a prior engagement. Looks like it will have to be a week on Saturday. Thank you again for your valued input - much appreciated!

Have been re-reading what Abbey sent in response to my request for a copy of the CCA agreement and would appreciate some clarification please. What they have sent (two months after my original request) is a copy of MBNA's current Credit Card Agreement including current T&Cs saying that this fulfills there obligations under CCA Section 77/78. My account is an old Abbey credit card and as such I believe(d) that what they must provide is a copy of the original Abbey CCA (although I am aware that they can omit the signature). Now, having read some other recent threads (e.g. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/196424-cca-agreement-time-up.html#post2215014), I note that the response I received is common and, more worryingly, that what they have provided may well fulfill their obligations. Can anyone clarify? (I have since sent the Account In Dispute letter, believing that they had not fulfilled their obligations, but am now wondering). (Common sense would suggest that a copy of MBNA's current agreement cannot possibly represent a "true copy" of what would have been an Abbey agreement, but common sense doesn't always apply in law I suppose).

Received another letter yesterday from Abbey repeating that they cannot agree a reduced payment plan or freeze interest as (in their view) I have made "recent non-essential purchases". This is despite not using the card for at least three months and any card usage was whilst I was within limit and making minimum payments and, if any usage was in their opinion non-essential it would have been negligible. Have today received a letter from "Global Vantedge" (based in India!) quoting an Aegis (DCA?) reference number asking that I contact Global Vantedge immediately by phone or make immediate payment of all arrears directly to Abbey. The only address (other than one for payments to Abbey in Widnes) is an Indian address, but the letter says not to send correspondence or payments to the Indian address. Do I just ignore this letter and await Abbey (MBNA?) response to my Account In Dispute letter? I have no intention of phoning them and cannot send them a DCA letter advising them to refer back to Abbey as the Account is in dispute as there is no UK address quoted. Any advice please?

Well, after paying one month at the vastly reduced amount I offered (but they refused), I have since received a letter demanding I pay the arrears and then received my next statement, again demanding effectively two month's payments immediately. Interest still accruing, plus further £12 charge for underpayment. This followed their inadequate response two months after my letter requesting a copy of the CCA agreement. (Their response only included MBNA's current copy CCA Agreement/Terms and Conditions, not a copy of the original Abbey agreement they are supposed to be looking for). I have in the last few days sent the letter to them requesting copy of original CCA under CPR rules as opposed to CCA to give them something else to chew on. My Account in Dispute letter has now been sent, but will probably not be received by them until tomorrow. Phone call yesterday afternoon from "Abbey" whilst I was out at work. Then nothing. Further phone call this evening (from, I'm guessing, an Indian call centre? The man said he was ringing from Global Vantage? on behalf of Abbey and had a very strong accent that made him difficult to understand in any event!) and asked me to confirm certain identity questions - I refused saying I will only respond to written correspondence and not phone calls. He said I must as he had something important to discuss - again I refused and suggested that Abbey should start replying to my most recent letters to them and not to phone again as I would not discuss financial matters over the phone and ended the call. Thought they may call again, but so far nothing. Another payment due shortly - I will be paying the amount I have offered even though this will mean the balance again increasing due to their ignoring my request to freeze interest and charges. I know the Account In Dispute letter says that until they can provide a valid CCA agreement I am not obliged to pay a penny, but feel it best to show my goodwill. Or is that a mistake? Thinking my next step is to SAR them to see if they respond. Any opinions on that course of action or other suggestions would be welcome.

I am presently trying to construct a suitable "Account In Dispute" letter as Abbey did not respond until over two months after my initial request and, despite referring to an "enclosed Credit Card Agreement (original and current)", only provided a copy of MBNA's current terms and a copy of my last statement. They further stated that they had asked "Abbey" to look for the original CCA and would provide a copy if found. I have already started making greatly reduced payments, which they have declined. It is my current intention to keep paying these reduced payments as a gesture of goodwill and as such was intending sending the following letter to them, but before doing so would welcome any opinions as to its suitability: "Dear Sir, Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Thank you for your letter dated 18 May 2009, the contents of which are noted. However, the reply you have provided does not fulfill your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter by Royal Mail Special delivery on 2nd March 2009 and signed for at your offices on 3rd March 2009. The items you provided in your reply were: 1) a copy of MBNA current Terms and Conditions and 2) a copy of the latest statement, not "a copy of the credit agreement (original and current)" to which your letter refers. What you have sent clearly does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. It neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’. I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law. Under the Consumer Credit Act terms you had until 17 March 2009 to provide me with the true copy I requested. Your letter in response was dated 18 May 2009 and did not contain any credit agreement whatsoever. You are therefore now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency. To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this. The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. Any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office To sum up, I have no obligation to make any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies. Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me. I look forward to your reply. Yours faithfully" Any comments, better wording or suggested amendments would be very much appreciated. Many thanks in advance.

No problem Dotty. I know what you mean about "reading so many" - suppose it's good to know we're not the only ones with similar problems though. You're very welcome to post in my thread(s) whenever you like. I've had a quick read of yours and will be following with interest. All the very best. JD

Thanks for the reply Dotty50. Unfortunately, it was not my OH who had the offer of a 75 percent reduction, but gbean2871's OH, I was just congratulating them on getting MBNA to agree to such a figure. I too have spent an enormous amount of what little free time I have reading threads and have found this wonderful forum extremely helpful. I am really humbled by the friendly, helpfulness of the members who have responded personally to my rather tentative questions. I think we are all searching for reassurance that we are approaching things in the best way possible. My biggest fear is that "upping the ante" by sending the Account In Dispute letter may backfire, but as Abbey (MBNA) are not playing ball at present I suppose I should be thinking more along the lines of "sod them!" and just send the letter anyway. Their apparent lack of any consideration in considering my situation certainly makes me feel that way. So I think the account in dispute letter will be winging it's way to them this week. Thanks again for your reply and good luck in your own situation.

Have now received my latest statement from Abbey, which includes 2 x £12 charges (£12 for late payment = one day late! and £12 for paying less than required minimum payment) and demanding immediate payment of effectively two month's minimum payments at £880+ I've now sent them a letter requesting they reconsider the reduced payments I have already started making and to freeze interest. I'm still wondering whether I should delay sending the Account In Dispute letter now, as they have failed to provide a CCA Agreement, or wait to see if I get a more positive response to my letter asking them to reconsider my offer. The other question I have is whether I should leave in the sentence in the Account In Dispute letter stating that no further payments will be made (but still pay them the reduced amount I have offered) or should I amend or delete that sentence? Any advice please?

Hi gbean and thanks for the response. I have not contacted Payplan as yet - at present my wife is only just returning to work on after a lengthy absence due to illness at which time she was only receiving SSP. Once we can accurately reassess our monthly income and outgoings I think it will be beneficial to speak with Payplan for their input, but at present I'm just trying to get my two unsecured creditors to accept our situation and not add to our woes by continuing to charge default fees and interest. Abbey (MBNA) are not at present interested in offering any help at all. I realise now that during the period I was unemployed following redundancy in 2007, I was overly optimistic and Abbey's contention (in what was effectively a one line reply to my recent request to accept reduced payments and freeze interest) is that I made non-essential purchases during this time. I have to admit that, on occasions, some use of the card may be construed that way, but at the time the card was within limit and payments were being maintained. I did in fact manage to repay my Abbey balance in full in 2007 from my redundancy monies, but this was in hindsight a mistake, as my failure to secure new employment for almost 12 months thereafter meant that I had to rely on re-using the card to meet everyday expenditure. It seems I am being judged by them entirely on the basis of what must total only a very small percentage of the outstanding balance. I have written again today asking them to reconsider my offer of reduced payments and also to freeze interest, but frankly don't hold out much hope that they will agree. They have still to provide a CCA agreement (requested by me on 2 March 2009!), although in a seperate letter they say that they are attempting to trace this (I bet they are!). I have already been advised by other very helpful members here at CAG to send the Account In Dispute letter as they failed to comply within 14 days and still have not provided what is legally required, however, I am so concerned that this will only serve to escalate their unhelpful attitude even more. My current thoughts are to wait say 7-10 days to see if they respond any more positively to my letter requesting they re-consider my offer and if no response or a further negative response is received, then send the dispute letter (but continue making the reduced nominal payments I have offered). I'm impressed that your husband has received an offer of a 75 percent reduction in balance owed. Even if this was my situation, I simply could not raise the 25 percent lump sum they would require). Still ,well done in at least getting them to offer this to him). I really don't know where or when this will all end, but as you say, it is good to know that we're not alone in this. I sincerely wish you the best of luck in resolving your own difficulties. JD2009

Thanks dx100uk. I fully intend to keep paying the reduced payments whether they agree or not and I have already asked them to freeze interest, although they did not refer to this in their reply refusing reduced payments. I will be raising the issue again. As regards charges, as far as I recall I have only been charged £12 twice or three times in the last couple of months, as prior to that the account was always kept within limit and minimum payments met (just!). Should I be claiming back these charges i.e. are they not entitled to charge if I'm over limit and/or paying less than the minimum payments? My other question is whether I should also send the account in dispute letter at this stage, as they have only just replied to my CCA request which I sent on 2 March 2009 and have not provided the CCA agreement? (they have allegedly asked Abbey to look for the CCA agreement .... it would be good if they fail to find it! Here's hoping!)

Second thoughts are that I'm thinking of sending the request to reconsider my offer of reduced payments and, if a further negative reply is received within say 10 days, or no reply received, then I will send the Account In Dispute letter. On the subject of the Dispute letter, I note that the version suggested in one of the threads states that no further payments will be sent unless an enforceable CCA agreement is provided. I wonder whether I should amend this to say that in the meantime I will continue to pay the offered reduced payments, or would that be "shooting myself in the foot"? BTW cosalt, apologies if this appears nosey, but I note that you say you have not paid anything since last September and a few questions came to mind. Are MBNA continuing to charge interest or is this frozen? Do you just send the same dispute letter each time they chase you? I assure you I'm only asking as I am unsure what to expect in my own dealings with them.

Thanks again cosalt. My account was opened at an Abbey branch in 1995 or thereabouts, with a balance at present just over £20k. Does that change anything? I take it that you would just send the Account in Dispute letter and not pay at all? (The thought of that scares the hell out of me). I was thinking of sending both the dispute letter and the request to reconsider my offer of reduced payments letter(separately) and see what happens. Any thoughts?

Thanks Cosalt for the response. I did expect that they would reject my offer having read other member's experiences. There is no way I can pay more than i have offered them, but my concern is that if I send the account in dispute letter now (as they have only provided T&Cs and not a CCA), are they less likely to agree to my request to reconsider my offer of reduced payments or should I send both letters? I know it's ultimately my call, but would appreciate any thoughts from those with more experience of dealing with MBNA and the like. Thanks again. P.S. I was thinking of sending the following in response to their letter rejecting my offer of reduced payments:- "Thank you for your letter of concerning the above account. I am sorry that you feel unable to accept the offer which I have made. The majority of my other creditors have accepted the offers made to them and I have commenced payments. I cannot offer you more because I can only at present afford £x per month between all my other creditors, and it would be wrong to cease or reduce payments to my other creditors in favour of your company. The offer made to you is on a pro rata basis, as used by the county court. In the light of the other creditors agreeing to my repayment plan, please would you reconsider the offer. As you will see, I have already made one payment of £x and will be making the payments in line with the offer to your company, on a monthly basis, as a gesture of goodwill. Additionally, you have made no reference to my request to suspend any interest charges still accruing. Continuing to charge interest would not assist me in my present financial difficulties, and can only serve to increase my total debt. As you are aware, I have already paid considerable sums in interest to the account. If interest charges continue, the monthly instalments I am paying will not even cover that interest. Also the co−operation of my other creditors who have agreed to freeze interest already would be put at risk. I would therefore be grateful if you would reconsider your decision. This would mean that the monthly payments I make would actually reduce the balance outstanding to your company. I can confirm that I have previously securely destroyed my card and any cheques held. If you would care to check your records, this followed your recent decision to increase the interest rate applicable if I did not agree to this action. (At that time my account was and never had been in arrears or over limit). I would ask that my request be considered sympathetically and speedily in view of the considerable number of years I have had the account and what is recent hardship and in making this request, I would remind you of your duty to comply with conditions agreed in the waiver of July 2007 and continuation of July 2008 between yourselves and the FSA. I look forward to hearing from you as soon as possible." Any thoughts would be very welcome please?

Thanks for the link dx100uk. Today I've received Abbey's response to my letter requesting they accept significantly reduced payments and freeze interest and charges. The answer is that they "cannot agree to any reduced payment plan as I have made recent non-essential purchases". This is despite my not having used the card at all for a couple of months and having already opted to destroy the card at their instigation, as they were going to up my interest rate to 35 percent if I didn't agree (this was despite having made full payments up to that time and never going over limit). I am at a stage where I simply cannot pay anymore than I was offering. I am debating whether I should just send the Account in dispute letter previously suggested or also send the letter asking them to reconsider my offer of reduced payments. Sorry to be a pain, but I'm desperate for guidance.

Thanks dx100uk. Is there any chance you could post a link for the "account in dispute" letter and or the "MBNA Forum"? (I thought I had the letter thread saved, but cannot for the life of me find it:rolleyes:) Thanks again.