NatWest and Shoosmiths

[Lifesontheup]

Its all there I've got no money - thank you ever so much.

 

I will sort the amended defence out and let you all know how it goes.

 

Thank you again

[Lifesontheup]

My father in law spoke to the solicitor today as he received a consent order to file an amended defence - I don't know why he did (but I suppose its because he is worried and has ill health.).

 

Anyway turns out the solicitor stated that the claim they issued doesn't state the payment is 66.88 that that has come off his account and that they don't see he has a defence.

 

Now the claim form states:

 

"THe defendant (D) held the accounts as listed below with the claimant ©

D failed to pay the sums due to C when demanded and the sums listed below remain outstanding.

 

Account number Debt balance

XXXX 6879.69

XXXX -66.88

 

Number"

 

The above is the only info on the CCC.

 

Am I looking at this wrongly as it reads to me that he hasn't paid 66.88 when the original agreement as 154. Are they trying to frighten him.

Edited May 18, 2009 by Lifesontheup

[Lifesontheup]

bump

[Lifesontheup]

Their response to amended defence is to go for Summary Judgement.

 

Their letter states:

 

We note that you admint taking out the loan account an that you assert the monthly instalment repayments were expressly agreed to be reduced form £154.06 to £66.86. You will be aware however tha the Claimant only agreed to the repayments o £66.86 on a without prejudice basis and we enclose a copy of our letter of 25 February 09 confirming this. In particular we draw your attention to paragraph 2 which states "please be advised that payments of £66.86 per month are not sufficient to prevent further legal proceedings in this matter".

 

With regards to the DN we reiterate our clients position as outlined in our letter 26 April. You will be aware from the same that our client confirms that DN was sent to you on 5 January 2007 because you had failed to adhere to the repayments of £154,06 per month. A further copy of the DN is enclosed.

 

With regards to you assertion of the sumes claimed include "default charges" we are unable to further comment on this as we note you failed to fully particularise this assertion.

 

With regards to the amount claimed we have previously provided you with statements of account confirming how the amount claimed arrived at and these are again enclosed.

 

In light of the above we do not believe your Amended Defence discloses any reasonable grounds for defending the claim an to that end we invite you to sign the consent order and return in next 7 days.

 

Should you fail to signt the consent order and return it to us before 28 May 2009 we put you on notice that we will apply for Summary Judgement and will seek the costs of doing so from you.

 

SJ could be a costly risk if this isn't a good case. I still don't like the fact the claim stated the lower payment but their reply to that is above.

 

I'm wondering whether to advise to sign the Consent Order and have done with it. Any input?

[I've got no money]

Can you post the DN they've sent and the consent order and also the letter which says that they accepted the reduced payments on a without prejudice basis

[Lifesontheup]

Letters below. The letter from February they mention is last on list.

 

 

 

 

 

[Lifesontheup]

*bump* as we need to reply today

[Lifesontheup]

*bump*

[Lifesontheup]

Ok, I think we are going to brazen it out and wait to hear from the Court. If they apply for a summary judgement then I will try and plead that the claim is invalid in that no default of £66.86 has occurred and they have been unwilling to fully particularise the money being claimed.

 

Does anyone thing this is a bad idea?

[Loser4u]

If they are not sure of their case they will push for you to sign the consent order.

 

They aren't worried about saving you money or costs its whatever they think is easiest for them to get the result they want.

[Lifesontheup]

So they have apparently asked the Court to transfer the case to local Court as they wish to apply for Summary Judgement.

 

Not heard anything from the court re amended defence and the phone system seems to be playing up as it is engaged permanently.

 

Anyway, does anyone know if a SJ hearing allows us to put the defence across? I just cannot believe that the solicitor can just ignore the whole point here that there has not been a default. We need to get this across and I hope it can be done at the hearing.

 

My father in law has been told he needs a heart bypass so this has come at the worst time

[bazaar]

Sorry to hear the news on your dad in law, Good luck to him.

Have you applied for CCA? or CPR 31 etc asking for the full account details, executed agreement etc?

If you have, then their letters to you are just harassment to try and get you to withdraw.

Even at the worst possible point in a court case, no court will make you pay more than you can afford.

This seems to me like a last ditch attempt by them to trick you into paying.

Your defence should include an order that they produce full accounts and most specifically the executed agreement.

[Lifesontheup]

Thanks Bazaar.

 

I've had only as much as what they want to give me - the CCA, the DN which doesn't match the default payment on the CCC as its for the higher amount, and bank statement (current account only) - they have failed to provide any statement of the loan account which provides details of interest etc. I also have a suspicion that unfair charges have been added. This will all come out in Court.

 

I do believe the Court will not order anymore either, as the payments are worked out with the CCCS for the last few years.

[bazaar]

well, if you nthink chargesd have been added, you should concider hitting the fools with CPR requestb freo agreement and statements

[Lifesontheup]

DJ asked for amended defence and as a result we have received an AQ, N150 form last week from local County Court to be in by Wednesday.

 

Today we have received papers from Solicitors and Court of a notice of hearing as Solicitors applied for Summary Judgement on 30 June and hearing middle August.

 

How does this work? They are trying to get judgement when the DJ ruled amended defence and allocation to local County Court to hear this.

 

Where do I go from here please?

[AndyOrch]

Hi Lifesontheup

Take at look athe following threads this will explain the process and the course of action you should care to follow:-

 

Tonka99 V Sechiari,Clark & Mitchell Lloyds

 

Court Claim for O/draft from Nthmtn (CCBC)(

 

 

Both threads include cases of the Claimant trying to steam roller their SJ applications through.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Lifesontheup]

Thank you Andyorch I didn't have much time in my lunch hour to find anything. I will look at these to see what options my father in law has.

[Lifesontheup]

Both of the other cases give excellent advice on responding to the SJ. However, I have until middle of August for that and have to reply to the AQ tomorrow.

 

With my father in laws case there has been no default in payment as stated on the POC. Does anyone know how I put together the AQ information on section I on the N150 for this? I've been on here for hours and just going around in circles.

 

Grateful for help please. I will be noting on the response that the solicitors have applied for SJ without responding to AQ - very sly.

[AndyOrch]

Hi

Ok N150 section I other information.This section is with regards to your proposed Directions.Here is an example from one of my other cases.You can get an idea and edit to suit your F i Ls claim.

 

I OTHER INFORMATION

 

Have you attached documents to this questionnaire? YES

 

Have you sent these documents to the other partyYES

 

If Yes, when did they receive them?

 

Do you intend to make any applications in the immediate future?YES

 

If Yes, what for?

 

An order seeking the Claimants compliance with information previously requested.

 

In the space below, set out any other information you consider will help the judge to manage the claim.

 

If the court is in agreement, the defendant respectfully requests that special directions may be given as per the attached draft order.

 

The defendant proposes these directions in mind of the Overriding Objectives, and in particular the duty of the parties to help the court further them. The issues outlined below are the crux upon which this claim rests, and the proposed directions identify these issues and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously;

 

without production of the requested documents, I am at a disadvantage and am unable to serve a proper defence. Failure of the claimant to supply the requested documentation will make the case much harder for the court to deal with as without production of the requested documentation will inhibit the courts ability to deal with the case

 

Its is respectfully requested this case be allocated to the Fast Track, it is a straight forward case and is easily resolved on production of the required documentation by the claimant, should the claimant not have the documentation required to progress this case I suggest that there will be no case to answer.

 

Therefore it stands to reason that this document must be disclosed before this case can progress any further.

 

___________________

 

DRAFT ORDER FOR DIRECTIONS

 

 

 

In the ************* County Court

Claim number **********

 

 

Between

 

 

************* - Claimant

 

 

 

 

and

 

 

xxxxxxxxxx - Defendant

 

 

 

 

Draft Order for Directions

 

 

 

The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

• Copies of the Credit Agreement and any documents referred to within it which complies with the consumer Credit Act 1974 and all subsequent regulations, which the claimant seeks to rely upon.
  
• Default Notice compliant with s87 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) as amended,
  
• Document, contract or deed of assignment
  
• Copies of any statement or other document relied upon
  

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve the following

• An amended defence sufficiently particularised in response to the documents supplied by the claimant.
  

If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order.

Regards

Andy

[Lifesontheup]

They have supplied everything apart for the loan account statements which should fully particulariseshow they came to the sum claimed. I could ask for this, but as they issued a DN in 2007 on the higher amount they have not issued a fully compliant DN on the lower amount they are claiming was defaulted on.

 

I was wondering if I could just ask for the case to be struck out or stayed?

 

Anyone know if this is ok?

[AndyOrch]

Hi

 

Of course you can ask for the claim to be struck out via the N244 Application Notice and stating your reasons for it.Cost is £75.00

You can request a stay on the AQ section A.

The truth is Lifeisontheup you are not going to unravel this fisasco because as soon as the variation to agreement was agreed with CCC your F i Ls payments went into the black hole otherwise known as CMS (Credit Managment Services )at Telford.These payments will never appear on the official statements,and therefore the DN (loan Acc) and termination notice(current account) are invalid.

Refer to the above in your AQ the DJ will soon request an order for the claimants to verify their P.o.C amounts.Prove the amounts are wrong and you can prove payment and the case will soon be struck out.

 

I trust the above helps

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Lifesontheup]

Hi

 

Of course you can ask for the claim to be struck out via the N244 Application Notice and stating your reasons for it.Cost is £75.00

You can request a stay on the AQ section A.

The truth is Lifeisontheup you are not going to unravel this fisasco because as soon as the variation to agreement was agreed with CCC your F i Ls payments went into the black hole otherwise known as CMS (Credit Managment Services )at Telford.These payments will never appear on the official statements,and therefore the DN (loan Acc) and termination notice(current account) are invalid.

Refer to the above in your AQ the DJ will soon request an order for the claimants to verify their P.o.C amounts.Prove the amounts are wrong and you can prove payment and the case will soon be struck out.

 

I trust the above helps

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Thanks Andy, I was going around in circles last night. The joke of it is, the payments are showing on the statements they provided however only from the current account they took them from. They have not provided any statement for the loan account showing any charges applied. The DN notice was invalid as it was at the higher payment and the CCC is for the lower agreed varied rate - however Shoosmiths are trying to get the judgement despite this being illegal.

 

They have also now supplied a DN for an overdraft at the time - I noticed in the SJ request late last night - bet that is included in the claim. Does anyone know if they can add it in? I don't think so as they claiming default on home loan.

[AndyOrch]

Hi

 

To simplify things and clarify how Snatch West works.

 

You take a loan they create an account number, you must also have a current account,, seperate account number to service the payments to the loan account.Hence NatyWest dont like payments from any other source not least because they have no control but thats for another day.

Now should you default on the loan payments the penalty charges are applied to the current account not the loan account and if things worsen they will issue a Default Notice on the loan Account stating time to rectify amount of arrears and any rebate entitled to said loan.This will allow 14 days plus service.On the current account you will recieve a termination notice (not DN) this is called a Notice under section 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA 1974 which basically terminates the O/D or current account,and again another 14 days to come to some agreement.The above are issued after the formal demand

Now on the Summons depending which Sol RatsNest are using the two figures will be amalgamated together and usually no account numbers refered to (this is how they hide the "unfair charges" )

 

Does the above make it any clearer

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

In any event Lifesontheup I really would push on and start to draft a WS in objection to Shoos Application for SJ.Post if if you need assistance.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Lifesontheup]

Thanks that really helped clarify it for me - I can see now its not a DN.

 

I am going to put together a response to the AQ tonight and then look at the SJ over the weekend when I have more time. The hearing isn't until middle August to I have some time on this one. I'll post up if I am stuck.

 

Thank you again for all your help on this.