Several different collection companies for each debt?

[Redletter]

:-|Hi there. Apologies in advance if I am in the wrong place but I was looking for a bit of advice regarding the CCA1974 and the fact that some agreements may be unenforceable.

I have a personal loan taken out in March 2007 and 4 credit cards pre 2006.

I have always kept up my repayments allbeit some of them the minimum payment due, but for a payment of £84 I get charged approximately £60 in interest so its becoming apparent that I am going to be paying forevermore!

The annoying thing is that, according to my credit expert report online I supposedly have an "excellent" credit score of 940 out of 1000 yet when I recently tried to reconstitute my loan to consolidate my cards and car loan I got refused! Also I got refused 6 months interest free credit for an item of jewelery at xmas which only amounted to £33 a month payment!

I am now beginning to think what is the point of being 'squeaky clean' and struggling with all the payments when they treat me the same as if I had not?? Especially now when I learn that they may not be enfoceable by the courts.

Is it in your opinion morally wrong to default on these agreements which were, at the time made in good faith?

Also would they only be unenforceable if a DCA takes them on after I default (would the banks use the fact that I am still paying as me accepting the T&C's???

Would I be better off defaulting and allowing a CCJ to be made in which case would the interest be frozen???

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[Redletter]

Hi can someone tell me - if several different letters have come from several different 'recovery agents' does this mean they are basically selling the debt on after unsuccessful attempts to make contact and does it mean that if there is no agreement each of them is committing an offence under the DPA for passing personal information around?

Also the fact that ALL of the letters are 'FINAL WARNINGS' mean it is unlikely that they have an original CCA as they have threatened court action several times and never taken any? or offers for a 'limited time' of partial discounts.

If I havent heard anything recently should I still send SAR or whatever you call iy requesting information from the most recent or the original creditor????

Thanks:?

[lilly white]

may i ask how old is the debt

[debt4get]

this is how the game is normally played out, the unsuccseful dca sells the account on to the next unsuccsful dca... they can process your data? difficult one that, they do and will, the problem is if the debt does actually exist and only they cannot legally enforce due to non cca then getting them to stop processing is difficult. they all send these final warnings, its a game to worry you and try to force payment just cca them or write and say I dont understand why you have debt its already in default with so and so dca

[Redletter]

may i ask how old is the debt

 

 

Of course you may

 

There are several credit cards dating between 2005 to 2006 and a loan dated 01-2006

[Redletter]

this is how the game is normally played out, the unsuccseful dca sells the account on to the next unsuccsful dca... they can process your data? difficult one that, they do and will, the problem is if the debt does actually exist and only they cannot legally enforce due to non cca then getting them to stop processing is difficult. they all send these final warnings, its a game to worry you and try to force payment just cca them or write and say I dont understand why you have debt its already in default with so and so dca

 

Thanks for reply.

According to some case notes I read on here something about Wilson v ? there was a high court judge who said that without a true copy of the agreement they cannot pass your information on as it is the alleged agreement that gives permission to do so?

Do you think it unlikely that they have the agreement as its been passed around so many times?

[Redletter]

If a loan agreement contains the payment details but the signatures are on the next page is it enforceable???

[fuzzybobble]

Bit tricky for you as your loanfalls after 2006. They closed a lot of the loopholes and also the law changed regarding the enforceability of agreements. For your cards, there's no harm in a CCA request. You may get lucky.

 

Even though your credit rating seems to be good, they now add up all your credit, and offset it against your income, so maybe that's why you're finding it hard to get credit now. Banks and lenders are now being very cautious who they lend money to. Some will say it's like them closing the door after the horses hav escaped, but that's banks for you.

 

If you're struggling, then an IVA may be a option. If you have no valuable assets, then go bankrupt. Not hard to do, and it takes the pressure off, and let's you make a start on rebuilding your life.

 

Recessions don't last forever, but not as long as a pile of huge debts hanging around your neck for the next 5 years or more.

 

As for the morals behind it, show the banks and lenders the same morals they've shown you and most others on this forum. ;-)

[sosumi]

Thanks for reply.

According to some case notes I read on here something about Wilson v ? there was a high court judge who said that without a true copy of the agreement they cannot pass your information on as it is the alleged agreement that gives permission to do so?

Do you think it unlikely that they have the agreement as its been passed around so many times?

They are chancers. They gamble on being able to get you to pay.

[rory32]

Even though your credit rating seems to be good, they now add up all your credit, and offset it against your income, so maybe that's why you're finding it hard to get credit now.

They always did do this, it's just now they are willing to lend far less.

 

How much roughly are you in debt?

 

Who are the credit card accounts with? What are the interest rates you are currently paying?

 

Have you asked them to freeze interest?

 

Are you managing to make all the minimum repayments?

 

Are you a homeowner? I would never recommend an IVA for a homeowner.

 

Would I be better off defaulting and allowing a CCJ to be made in which case would the interest be frozen???

Ideally you don't want to default as it can be a bit of a hassle dealing with DCA's etc but you may have to default depending on your circumstances. If a CCJ was awarded against you then yes interest would be frozen upon judgement as these are consumer debts.

 

Have you sat down and done a statement of affairs to see where all your money is going and realistically how much disposable income you have to throw at these debts?

[Redletter]

G/friend got letter from Cabot for alleged debt

claiming to have been assigned the debt from the original lender

with what they claim is a copy of the letter of assignment.

 

She made a verbal agreement to pay the alleged debt without 1st speaking to me.

They frightened her into paying a small payment by debit card and agreeing on the phone to pay a nominal amount each month.

 

Upon checking the previous correspodence there have been several 'collection agents' involved

-each one threatening legal action which was never forthcoming.

 

The last she heard from the CC company was that C.A.R.S had been assigned the debt!

 

However, Cabot claim to have been assigned the debt by the original creditor.

 

The company logo on the alleged letter of assignment is not even the same size as the one on the actual creditor's own letters.

 

So what happened to the other 3 DCA's?

 

What next do we ask for a copy of the agreement under section 77/78 of CCA

or do we just send preliminary letter to request the letter of assignment from original creditor????

 

Please advise.

I have also seen a thread which says not to quote CCA1974 but rather to request the original agreement

under some other rules and to specifically state the request is NOT under the CCA1974????

 

Apparently this is to prevent them sending a 'true copy' which may be a mish mash of several copies of different T&C's cut and pasted???

 

What are the 1st steps to take?

Do we cancel the DD, reject the claim on what grounds???

Thanks in advance:confused:

[Redletter]

They always did do this, it's just now they are willing to lend far less.

 

How much roughly are you in debt?

 

Who are the credit card accounts with? What are the interest rates you are currently paying?

 

Have you asked them to freeze interest?

 

Are you managing to make all the minimum repayments?

 

Are you a homeowner? I would never recommend an IVA for a homeowner.

 

Ideally you don't want to default as it can be a bit of a hassle dealing with DCA's etc but you may have to default depending on your circumstances. If a CCJ was awarded against you then yes interest would be frozen upon judgement as these are consumer debts.

 

Have you sat down and done a statement of affairs to see where all your money is going and realistically how much disposable income you have to throw at these debts?

 

Thanks for reply.

Not a homeowner.

If I ask them to freeze the interest do I get a default against me?

I guess I can battle on and pay them I just feel like its never ending!

 

One is Cahoot interest rate not so bad about 16%APR balance £1800

1 with virgin taking the Michael 31% per month not sure but it means out of approx £70 paid about £40 odd is interest. Balance £2700

1 with Argos who keep reducing the limit balance £1800

1 with Barclaycard balance below £500:-o

[Redletter]

G/friend got letter from Cabot for alleged debt claiming to have been assigned the debt from the original lender with what they claim is a copy of the letter of assignment.

She made a verbal agreement to pay the alleged debt without 1st speaking to me. They frightened her into paying a small payment by debit card and agreeing on the phone to pay a nominal amount each month.

Upon checking the previous correspodence there have been several 'collection agents' involved-each one threatening legal action which was never forthcoming. The last she heard from the CC company was that C.A.R.S had been assigned the debt!

However, Cabot claim to have been assigned the debt by the original creditor. The company logo on the alleged letter of assignment is not even the same size as the one on the actual creditor's own letters. So what happened to the other 3 DCA's?

What next do we ask for a copy of the agreement under section 77/78 of CCA or do we just send preliminary letter to request the letter of assignment from original creditor????

Please advise.

I have also seen a thread which says not to quote CCA1974 but rather to request the original agreement under some other rules and to specifically state the request is NOT under the CCA1974????

Apparently this is to prevent them sending a 'true copy' which may be a mish mash of several copies of different T&C's cut and pasted???

 

What are the 1st steps to take?

Do we cancel the DD, reject the claim on what grounds???

Thanks in advance:confused:

[pompeyfaith]

Have you had a notice of assignment from any of the DCA,s

 

PF

[Fred Bassett]

G/friend got letter from Cabot for alleged debt claiming to have been assigned the debt from the original lender with what they claim is a copy of the letter of assignment.

She made a verbal agreement to pay the alleged debt without 1st speaking to me. They frightened her into paying a small payment by debit card and agreeing on the phone to pay a nominal amount each month.

Upon checking the previous correspodence there have been several 'collection agents' involved-each one threatening legal action which was never forthcoming. The last she heard from the CC company was that C.A.R.S had been assigned the debt!

However, Cabot claim to have been assigned the debt by the original creditor. The company logo on the alleged letter of assignment is not even the same size as the one on the actual creditor's own letters. So what happened to the other 3 DCA's?

What next do we ask for a copy of the agreement under section 77/78 of CCA or do we just send preliminary letter to request the letter of assignment from original creditor????

Please advise.

I have also seen a thread which says not to quote CCA1974 but rather to request the original agreement under some other rules and to specifically state the request is NOT under the CCA1974????

Apparently this is to prevent them sending a 'true copy' which may be a mish mash of several copies of different T&C's cut and pasted???

 

What are the 1st steps to take?

Do we cancel the DD, reject the claim on what grounds???

Thanks in advance:confused:

 

If you do have to pay them, don't do it by direct debit. If you have to, set up a standing order. That way, you've got control of things.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[Redletter]

Have you had a notice of assignment from any of the DCA,s

 

PF[

 

/quote]

 

Thanks for reply PF

 

Allegedley yes, but it looks dodgy.

The CC Co logo looks as if its scanned the outline is bigger than the one on other correspondence from the OC and the background of it looks grainy as if its been enlarged.

 

How does it work with regards to assignment?

If a DCA bought the debt then was unsuccessful does it go to the next DCA or back to the OC???

[Redletter]

Thanks Fred

[Redletter]

By the way what is the purpose of the SAR?

Is that to obtain ALL data held? Would I get to find out how much the DCA bought the debt for and maybe offer a 'token payment to cover admin costs of removing the default details from the CRA files? Is this a possibility?

[MARTIN3030]

Its possible that Cabot were assigned the debt,and then used another DCA as their agent to collect.

In any event,there is a requirement to inform of this,and there should not be more than one chasing any debts.

 

Assignment requires the assignee to inform the debtor.

Have credit files been checked ? defaults should be re-registered under the assignee.Data processing should be arranged between the OC and assignee,but it should be made clear.

Will move your thread to the DCA forum.

I think at this stage it would also be an idea to re-title the thread until more becomes clear.

[Redletter]

Have you had a notice of assignment from any of the DCA,s

 

PF

 

 

Interestingley....the supposed notice of assignment allegedley from the original OC and 'signed' by the original OC suspiciously carries the exact same date as their 'welcome' letter!!!

Surely had Cabot 'recently bought the account....' the date on the notice of assignment would be prior to that of their letter which, incidentally uses the exact same font!!!

[Fred Bassett]

By the way what is the purpose of the SAR?

Is that to obtain ALL data held? Would I get to find out how much the DCA bought the debt for and maybe offer a 'token payment to cover admin costs of removing the default details from the CRA files? Is this a possibility?

 

Redletter, with regards to a SAR, You are the subject. The purpose is to get hold of all of the data they hold on you, including statements, transcripts of 'phone calls, copies of letters (most important) etc. Don't let them fob you off with sending you copies of statements as the other stuff could be very important indeed - especially if it includes copies of default notices etc. It is highly unlikely that you will find out how much a DCA bought the debt for.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[Redletter]

Its possible that Cabot were assigned the debt,and then used another DCA as their agent to collect.

In any event,there is a requirement to inform of this,and there should not be more than one chasing any debts.

 

Assignment requires the assignee to inform the debtor.

Have credit files been checked ? defaults should be re-registered under the assignee.Data processing should be arranged between the OC and assignee,but it should be made clear.

Will move your thread to the DCA forum.

I think at this stage it would also be an idea to re-title the thread until more becomes clear.

 

I have just noticed that their supposed notice of assignment carrying the original OC logo and signature of OC staff says that the assignment is effective 10 Dec but is dated 30 Dec same as the 'welcome' letter????

 

Do I need to send SAR to the credit ref agencies (all 3?) before anything else and do I have to pay? Or do I SAR the OC to determine where the defaults may show?

 

Btw sorry I am having difficulty navigating with all these threads and not sure where i am!

[Redletter]

Thanks Fred I really appreciate your help I am new to all this. I am basically trying to deal with a number of alleged debts on behalf of the g/f!

They have all been as far as the DCA stage but thus far been ignored. The ones that lay dorment-should I let sleeping dogs lie or SAR them ALL?

[Redletter]

What does this actually mean?

Is it true that the 6 year rule only applies to a debt for which payment has not been requested or is it 6 years fixed from the time the default was logged-and is that from the time the original OC logged the default or when the latest DCA logged it again????

PLEASE ADVISE:confused:

[tendogs]

These debts get bounced around, sometimes an original creditor will employ a DCA to collect and when collection doesn’t happen the debt is passed back to the OC, sometimes the debt is sold to a DCA and then when collection doesn’t happen it is sold back to the OC who, then sells it on again to some organisation further down the food chain and so on it goes.

There ought to be a notice of assignment every time the debt is assigned and a letter telling you the debt has been returned every time it is returned to the OC, however, It’s not unusual to find that the DCAs send out notice of assignment using the OCs letterhead.

There has been a fair amount of noise on the forum lately about this because it is not strictly within the spirit of the act and although I think it’s wrong it might be sometime before any one takes one of the DCA to task over this.

You need the documents because you need to check the original agreement, the terms and conditions, default notice, notices of assignment, PPI and charges and I would think that sending a Data Subject Access Request to the OC would be, in the long run, the quickest way of getting all of what you need.

In the intervening period try and get the account into dispute by first making a CCA request to the DCA. Keep up the payments until the account is in dispute.