Job Centre "not coping"

[gyzmo]

Maternity cover merely means that the current holder of the post is off on maternity leave and they need someone to fill the vacancy on a temporary basis.

[MONX]

I have a degree in Fine Art...I work as an administration officer in local government. My degree didnt get me the job, I dont use the subject specific skills I attained during my degree in my current job but it did show my employers that I can research a particular subject, and compete to attain a certain level of acheivement. Sometimes the subject of the degree is irrelevant to a perspective employer.

 

I would just say that we are all entitled to a living and all entitled to respect, safety and common courtesy in our respecive jobs. You may dissagree with what staff at the Jobcentre say to you or perhaps the way they say it, and I am by no means apologising for people with an unfortunate attitude, but what I would say is that these people have been given the job of helping jobseekers help themselves to find work and protect the public purse...that is taxpayers money that you and I have paid our hard earned money into ....surely you would want to know that there are rules and regulations as to who, when and how that is paid out?

[Castlebest]

..... and protect the public purse...that is taxpayers money that you and I have paid our hard earned money into ....surely you would want to know that there are rules and regulations as to who, when and how that is paid out?

 

Can we get Gordon Brown a position in a Job Center, maybe he could learn something.

[godpikachu]

on the subject of "womans work" etc, i must say that despite equality for the sexes and so on that sex discrimination is still very much alive in determining what sort of work you will get.

 

My work experience is mainly in admin, with healthy doses of IT and customer service, but being as how IT jobs in my area are almost non existant i am having to look for work mainly in admin or customer service.

the problem with this is many employers dont like the idea of having male administrators, seeing it as "womans work" because at some point you may have to file or photocopy something, which is what they have secretaries for.

 

Some would dispute this kind of thing happens, but trust me, i know, ive been there.

 

 

As for the jobcentre, i have yet to meet a jobcentre employee who could tell their arse from their elbow, they arent interested in helping you in the slightest, they cant give you any advice, all they are there for is to, ooh, what a suprise!, to meet targets.

[mustang67]

Totally agree with all you say,they met their target with me because I walked out on them,one less unemployed even though I am still unemployed and there are probably thousands like me out there so what the true jobless figure is is anyones guess:rolleyes:

[gyzmo]

There is definitely some sexism going on. Look at call center team leaders. Vast majority are female from my experience.

 

And just to combine targets, call centers and sex, three males (me being one) and a female applied for a more specialised position dealing with complaints at DL. The girl got it even though she cried whenever a customer got angry or hostile and she did not understand how the FOS works or their complaints procedure. Hmmm.

[mustang67]

I think that they do not want to upset them (females)they seem to have more so called rights. Probably get some irate female replying now !!!!

[eastlondoner]

I have an absolutely fantastic job adviser at the jobcentre where I have to sign on...am I the only one?

[godpikachu]

looks like it.

besides, if he was that good you would be working by now.

[mustang67]

Youve got one with a brain? Hope it catches on !!!

[godpikachu]

Youve got one with a brain? Hope it catches on !!!

 

 

dont worry, the jobcentre will probably shift him into admin or something at the end of his next 12 week contract and he will leave for another job somewhere else.

 

BTW, did you know job centre employees are only employed on a 12 week basis?

[mustang67]

Thats twelve weeks to long!!!!!

[eastlondoner]

Its not to say I haven't had bad ones in the past. Like Monx I come from a Fine Art background. Agencies and employers have literally run away from someone they generalise as being not committed or interested in holding a job outside of their 'specialist' subject area. It is an uphill struggle just to get to the interview stage, and I would consider pretty much anything! Does not help that they can google my name and check the creative stuff I have been doing, which in their eyes means I won't be 100 per cent committed. It has been hard to communicate this to the Jobcentre. If they gave me a job as an advisor I know I would probably be able to offer more constructive help. Once, I got sent to a CV writer who actually reformatted my CV in a (his words) 'funky' cartoon font, as he thought it would help me get a job at quite a high profile commercial art gallery :D:D Thank god I didn't send it anywhere. It looked ridiculous! But...I do now have a really supportive advisor who is actually being proactive at finding the support for me to set up something myself with some of my technical skills...and I don't think I will be signing on much longer as it seems to be going well. I have to support the jobcentre staff a little bit. I have seen one being physically assaulted and I would not like to do the job myself. Having said that, I know just how damn frustrating the place can be. Unfortunately you do have to think outside of the box when dealing with them, which involves jumping through some of their seemingly ridiculous hoops, but if you do enough digging, it is possible to get something out of them. Just don't expect them to be able to offer you serious career advice... Good luck everyone!

[godpikachu]

wel, if there is an advisor that is willing to help then id like to know why all of them arent the same?.

 

i mean at my jobcentre, they have posters up saying to ask about various things, but when you ask the advisors just look back at you blankly and say "er..dunno"...that isnt an acceptable answer.

i once asked one what his capacity was there, as in his job title, he replied he was a "customer service advisor", so i replied that if that was his job, then how come he wasnt able to advise a customer on a service that was being advertised by his employer...all i recieved back was another blank look and a drawn out "errrrrrrrr", even when i asked to speak to his manager, the MANAGER wasnt able to help either, but yet the sodding thing i was asking about was written on a poster not less than 6 feet away from me clearly stating "ask a member of staff for details" .

 

its pathetic, the jobcentre is a joke, the benefit system is a joke, and this country is going swiftly down the ****ter because the people in charge cant be arsed to spend that few extra quid to ensure the staff they employ are actually able to do their jobs and trained to provide whatever it is they are supposed to provide.

All tha matters is targets, targets, targets ****ing targets!!, each jobseeker gets 5 minutes of the "advisors" time (your appointment duration is actually written on your claim/signing pack, if youre eagle eyed enough to notice), in said time they quickly run through a memorised script and if theres any deviation from that then their entire system collapses, just because someone who has an IQ larger than their shoe size asks an intelligent question and quite reasonably expects an intelligent answer.

 

now im mad.

[eastlondoner]

I totally agree that they should the extra quid and employ brighter people. I have been very lucky with my advisor this time and I totally understand your frustration. I have been through the benefits system forwards and backwards over the years due to the irregular nature of my work, and all I can do now is just smile when I encounter incompetence. Sadly, having more than a single braincell myself, I know how easy it would be to totally run rings around them too, which is a rather worrying thought given the economic state of the country. In my experience, the frontline advisors are the worst. The ones that do the review appointments or start claims are often better...I made a few requests and got to see one of these people regularly which helped. Other times I have literally had to speak to people like they are two years old to explain things step by step. All I can say is keep the faith...

[gyzmo]

I think part of the problem is that they are not seeing themselves for what they are.

 

In my initial interview, I was chatting to the guy and asked him why claimants were now called customers. He couldn't really answer except to say that it sounded better than claimant.

 

I view such terminology as a pollutant to the true functions of various services.

 

When I was in nursing, there was much talk about "professionalism" and the name of the role, but little talk about what the job entailed. Patients were termed "service users" and changed again to something equally daft.

 

Now claimants are "customers". Err, I don't buy anything from the job centre (yu can take that to mean anyway you want!). I do not have the choice of getting benefits or signing on elsewhere or, if I want to survive, going to the JC at all. So I am not a "customer". I am a claimant. I am claiming on the (extortionate) taxes I have paid since leaving full time education, as well as that of others - hopefully for not very long at all. I obviously want to get a job ASAP. Yes, the JC can help in that, but they do not have jobs in my field (that I can find).

 

The only jobs they are offering are those that I will leave as soon as something better comes along or those that employers will not want me for due to, err, people such as me not wanting them and leaving as soon as something better comes along.

 

The sooner the powers that be stop messing about with terminology and start calling a spade a spade (and pleeeeze don't quote Oscar Wilde's unfunny retort to that saying) the better.

[godpikachu]

 

When I was in nursing, there was much talk about "professionalism" and the name of the role, but little talk about what the job entailed. Patients were termed "service users" and changed again to something equally daft.

 

on the subject of so called "professionalism", when i was 18 i worked in a large call centre, and the company handbook was 20 pages long (A4 sized).

12 pages of this book detailed all the "offences" which you could be disciplined for, and the disciplinary proceedure itself, which they said was geared towards "maintaining a professional image and environment".

one section of "the rules" detailed so called "unprofessional language", which detailed so called "negative words and phrases likely to bring the company into disrepute", words such as:-

 

Unfortunatley

Can't/cannot

Wont/will not

Impossible

Apology

Sorry

Fault

Its a problem at our end (or any mention of anything which made the company sound at fault or if it was having problems in any way, eg systems down, insufficiently trained advisors etc)

 

if you were caught using any of these words on your call monitorings then you were immediatly reprimanded, 3 such reprimands led to a stage 1 warning.

 

 

Now claimants are "customers". Err, I don't buy anything from the job centre (yu can take that to mean anyway you want!). I do not have the choice of getting benefits or signing on elsewhere or, if I want to survive, going to the JC at all. So I am not a "customer". I am a claimant. I am claiming on the (extortionate) taxes I have paid since leaving full time education, as well as that of others - hopefully for not very long at all. I obviously want to get a job ASAP. Yes, the JC can help in that, but they do not have jobs in my field (that I can find).

 

This is my point exactly. back when i signed on for the very first time in 1998, the jobcentre could set jobs up for you, and could even force employers to give you work, they had lots of training courses in useful stuff available to claimants who were interested, and the staff would go out of their way to help you.

Al thats gone now obviously, because if they still did stuff like that it would mean that they were actually being something like a job centre, instead of a drop in centre.

You cant go anywhere else to claim your benefits, so why they insist on referring to people as "customers" is beyond me, but i suppose its all part an parcel of the facade they try to put accross that they are genuinely interested in helpng people back to work.

 

The only jobs they are offering are those that I will leave as soon as something better comes along or those that employers will not want me for due to, err, people such as me not wanting them and leaving as soon as something better comes along.

 

yeah, this is the sort of thing im getting. the area where i live is having a bit of an employment crisis of late, and new vacancies are few and far between, but the ones that do come up are usually care jobs (~ 50%), semi skilled labour (~15%) part time food preparation work (~20%) and the rest is the sort of stuff im looking for.

the jobseekers agreement states that i should be looking for work in the areas that match my skills, however my skills only fall into about 10% of available work, and with about 50000 unemployed in my area, employers are going to be piky about who they employ, so that aint my fault.

 

I have no qualms whatsoever about claiming benefits, i have paid my taxes over the years, and ive had some good paid jobs so ive paid a fair bit of money in to the system, so its only right that i should expect some back when i need it.

The government is quite happy to give money out to anyone who turns up on the back of a lorry, or to idle layabouts who are only good for making babies and occupying prison cells, so they can be happy to give some to me as well.

[gyzmo]

Oh my - which call centre was it?

[godpikachu]

im not saying because they have very good lawyers, all i will say is that they are a UK based "customer service" outsourcing company who have had contracts for several utility companies, ISPs and banks over the years.

 

 

if you really really want to know, pm me

[installspark]

all i will say is that they are a UK based "customer service" outsourcing company who have had contracts for several utility companies, ISPs and banks over the years.

 

Sounds like a company I used to work for, who are owned by a major utility company, until the utility company took the contract back in house.

 

Anyways, back to the subject...

 

Not all staff at job centres are bad at what they do, there are some helpful staff out there it's just that they are few and far between. There is a lot to be said for people skills training

 

From experience in the past, I have never gained employment through any of the job centre vacancies and my advisor has agreed that it is unlikely that I will find a suitable vacancy in my area for my skills through the job centre as the vast majority of the vacancies they have are either in care or warehouse vacancies which require flt licences, which I don't have. However I will not rule out a job just because it doesn't match my exact skillset requirement, I would much prefer to be in employment that having to rely on JSA each fortnight.

 

I agree that the job centre is not currently set up in a way which will be able to help those who have, for want of a better word, more "unique" requirements in their employment needs as previously the vast majority of people using the service were young, inexperienced and/or unqualified. Until recently, there had been no perceived need to cater for people who are either academically qualified, time served skill trades or highly experienced etc; now the job centre find themselves in a position where they cannot help those who need assistance in getting back into employment.

Edited March 5, 2009 by installspark

[gyzmo]

So would I.

 

The main issue is that this person seems to be adverse to find jobs that I would be suitable for. She did once look at other jobs - all of which required qualifications or some skill that I did not have.

 

I'm not ruling the jobs out because they do not match what I want exactly. I do not want to work in call centres because they make me physically ill - they really stress me out. I do not want a sales job because I can't sell. I don't want a job where I will be asked to do something which contravenes the law (DCAs!) or restrict consumer rights. If I worked in a shop and a customer complained about faulty goods, I would go with what the law states and not what shop policy is. I simpy cannot function in that kind of environment.

 

And it's not just that. Employers in those fields simply do not want a graduate! Employers and a couple of reputable agencies have already told me this - one suggested I even do not mention the degree!

 

I have already had 4 jobs that I did not like and left - it took me a long time to realise I simply did not get on in call centers (a former team leader warned me and said I was "wasted" doing that type of work). That's why I went to uni. I did not do it to say "Ooh look at me I've got a degree". I did it to help get a career outside of call centers - a place that one seems to be stuck in once started.

[PriorityOne]

 

In my initial interview, I was chatting to the guy and asked him why claimants were now called customers. He couldn't really answer except to say that it sounded better than claimant.

 

 

This tactic was all part of the cheap psychology involved somewhere around the early 1990s (?)... in trying to shift the onus of responsibility away from the Gov.

 

Unemployment Benefit became Job Seeker's Allowance .... implying that you were only allowed to have it if you sought work, rather than entitled to have it as a Benefit. Word play....

 

Similarly, Supplementary Benefit was morphed into Income Support.... implying that it was there to prop up some imaginary income that you already had , instead of an amount that was previously intended to supplement an often huge gap in living costs that Unemployment Benefit wasn't covering.

 

The Gov. seemed to be in "lurve" with the word Choice at the time... and some bright spark must have thought that introducing it into the DWP language would successfully deviate attention away from entitlement and rights.... probably the same bright spark involved in the re-naming of the DWP in the first place (previously known as the Dept. of Social Security.... a concept that has long since disappeared).

 

Incapacity Benefit is now on their hit list, so it seems....

 

[installspark]

I did it to help get a career outside of call centers - a place that one seems to be stuck in once started.

 

Know that feeling well, academically I'm trained as an electronics technician and a sparky. Couldn't find employment in those areas at the time as had no experience - the usual circle of can't get experience if can't get a job, can't get a job as haven't experience; ended up falling in to CS call centre work which I love to hate and hate to love.

 

Even if you apply for a vacancy with the DWP you are put into a waiting list if you are successful at interview, fortunately my advisor can see that I "technically" have a firm and accepted job offer, but am waiting for them to give a start date.

 

Anyways back to the job hunt.

[mustang67]

wel, if there is an advisor that is willing to help then id like to know why all of them arent the same?.

 

i mean at my jobcentre, they have posters up saying to ask about various things, but when you ask the advisors just look back at you blankly and say "er..dunno"...that isnt an acceptable answer.

i once asked one what his capacity was there, as in his job title, he replied he was a "customer service advisor", so i replied that if that was his job, then how come he wasnt able to advise a customer on a service that was being advertised by his employer...all i recieved back was another blank look and a drawn out "errrrrrrrr", even when i asked to speak to his manager, the MANAGER wasnt able to help either, but yet the sodding thing i was asking about was written on a poster not less than 6 feet away from me clearly stating "ask a member of staff for details" .

its pathetic, the jobcentre is a joke, the benefit system is a joke, and this country is going swiftly down the ****ter because the people in charge cant be arsed to spend that few extra quid to ensure the staff they employ are actually able to do their jobs and trained to provide whatever it is they are supposed to provide.

All tha matters is targets, targets, targets ****ing targets!!, each jobseeker gets 5 minutes of the "advisors" time (your appointment duration is actually written on your claim/signing pack, if youre eagle eyed enough to notice), in said time they quickly run through a memorised script and if theres any deviation from that then their entire system collapses, just because someone who has an IQ larger than their shoe size asks an intelligent question and quite reasonably expects an intelligent answer.

 

now im mad.

 

Used to have the same problems myself when I visited them. A fter the usual greeting of how is the Job Search going you feel like saying to them if I had found one I would not be here. But when you ask them to search for what they advertise on their walls, like what is this new deal for the over fiftys they do not know,where is this training that I can apply for? still a blank expression looks back at you, as if they are thinking I do not know what to do here I have got someone who can actually read English.

Should have them for misleading advertising.

My definition of a customer is a person who wishes to buy the product or service of a company so why Job Centre has the nerve to call you one I do not know maybe victim would be a better word:eek:

[godpikachu]

I did it to help get a career outside of call centers - a place that one seems to be stuck in once started.

 

yeah, ive only ever worked in a "call centre" twice in my entire life, once for 7 months when i was 18 (12 years ago, this was the nazi-esque call centre i described earlier), and at BT for 3 months during the summer of 2007.

 

due to me having "call centre experience", employment agencies, and the dol office automatically pigeon hole me into the catagory of being a "call centre worker", even though i have more experience in working in admin and IT, hell, i was a postman for 2 and a half years, so why am i not pigeon hold into "postal worker"?.

 

Call centres are the sweat shops of the west, as they have completley incompatible objectives, ie, length of call AND quality of service, you simply CANNOT solve all problems within the 2 minute call time average, especially if the problem is intricate and the customer is irate.

Wages are extremly poor, morale is almost no nexistant, and more often than not you wil find teams of experienced workers being led by a team leader who is basically a kid and who has little or no life experience (never mind work experience!).

 

I simply cannot function in a call centre, their practices are too restrictive, too deceptive and offer absolutley zero chance for a worker to have any incentive to stay on past a years service, as career progression is practically non existant.