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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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keefyboy - v - Capone


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no fear of that, brought a spare one just in case i need it!! :-)

 

I am sure that Fredricksons dont read their mail at all... we will wait and see... hee hee :-)

Keefy (:-)The "Moaner":rolleyes:)Boy

Prepared to take on anyone until I win...................

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good day to you all, I received this letter from Fredricksons yesterday but only just had chance to put it on for advice . The last correspondance i received from Capital One was a photocopy of my application Form and 5 or 6 pages of Terms and conditions. There is no reference on the application form to the rear or any other pages as I remember, I will have to dig it out from the mountains of stuff in front room and post it up on here, anyway this is the letter from Fredricksons,

 

sorry imag

 

 

Is there a template letter or is this a new tatic by crapone via a DCA ?

Edited by keefyboy
e deleted because of scanner showing personal details, new one to follow

Keefy (:-)The "Moaner":rolleyes:)Boy

Prepared to take on anyone until I win...................

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sorry I had to remove the letter image as it was showing personal details...

 

New image will follow..

Keefy (:-)The "Moaner":rolleyes:)Boy

Prepared to take on anyone until I win...................

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here is the letter again..

 

shopandscan0002.jpg

 

so can anyone tell me what to write please... preferably a letter to show Fredricksons I mean business...

 

sorry again, it been one of them days, I deleted the wrong one so got to rescan it in

Edited by keefyboy

Keefy (:-)The "Moaner":rolleyes:)Boy

Prepared to take on anyone until I win...................

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Afternoon Keefy, Hope all is otherwise well with you(and your beloved :)) apart from Freds of course.

 

As I see it, they are trying to confuse you. Just because they have sent you (via Cap1) the APPLICATION form and the T's&C's, they think that the dispute is resolved. Well yes it is but as we know, what they have sent would be useless if it went to court (NO link from application to T's&C's)

 

I don't think there is a template letter for this as each case is different and if there were template letters for each case, we would never find em!

 

If you still wish to communicate with them, point out the failings of the "agreement" with a swift foxtrot oscar until they come up with something legally compliant

 

Basically, "PUT UP OR SHUT UP"

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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Hi Guys and Gals

 

Here is a letter that I have composed for Fredrickson in response to their letter and I would like you to have a look at it and suggest any alterations it needs please..

 

Fredrickson International Ltd

PO Box

 

 

 

 

Your ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I refer to your letter dated July 2010, the contents of which are noted.

 

You state in your letter that you have been in contact with Capital One Bank (Europe) plc with regards to the Disputed

Account, which is now, in a Serious Dispute State.

 

Capital One Bank (Europe) plc, has sent me, (since my request in January 2009 for a True Signed copy of the Enforceable Credit Agreement, as required by the Consumer Credit Act,) 4 different letters which they claim , in writing, were True Copies of the Signed Enforceable Credit Agreement. None of these letters contained a True copy of the Signed Enforceable Agreement.

 

The last letter they sent was a photocopy of my application form and several other pages of Terms and Conditions, which DO NOT form part of the agreement or are not referred to in the document which they state is a True Signed Enforceable Agreement.

Therefore Capital One Bank (Europe)plc may think that they satisfy the request under the CCA, but as you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide the Original Signed Enforceable Credit Agreement in the court.

 

Therefore the Account is still in Serious Dispute with Capital One Bank (Europe) plc and will be until it is proved that they do have the “Original Signed Credit Agreement.”

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.(Yourselves)

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

I am also informing you that you continued correspondence and threats of Legal Action are now classed as Harassment and if this continues I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

 

I therefore suggest that you return this account back to Capital One Bank (Europe) plc for their resolution of this matter.

 

Yours Faithfully

Keefy (:-)The "Moaner":rolleyes:)Boy

Prepared to take on anyone until I win...................

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That's what I like to see. A short letter that contains all the salient points. Wish I could do them. Mine turn into sagas :(

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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Morning Fox, hope you are settled now... Yeah me too, I love writing a novel, but I use up so many trees, so trying to be a bit more to the point to save a few trees instead. It was four pages to start with until I started reading it again, then cut this out, cause you've already mentioned that, cut this out because its too long, cut that cause its not really required in the letter and so on, so not a bad try this time, I'll leave it up for another day and post it tomorrow RD. :-)

Keefy (:-)The "Moaner":rolleyes:)Boy

Prepared to take on anyone until I win...................

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Morning Fox, hope you are settled now...

 

NO!!!

 

I love the area and the bungalow I'm in but I still have to decorate my lounge,kitchen and bedroom (done the bathroom and hall) but I have got no energy. My youngest daughter had a TIA last week(she's only 24) so I have been running back and forth looking after her and my grandsons.

Oh well, I suppose it keeps me busy :(

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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Hi Guys and Girls

The better half got this letter today, advice please on which snotty letter I have to send them... :???: memory is a total blank today

 

 

Keefsscans0001.jpg

 

 

thanks Keefyboy

Keefy (:-)The "Moaner":rolleyes:)Boy

Prepared to take on anyone until I win...................

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Standard rent-a-solicitors letter :-)

 

best of sending the bemused why its been passed to them when its in dispute with the original creditor letter. Hmm cant find one in the templates lib, you may have to do one yourself unless somedbody else can find it. Soz!

 

S.

Edited by the_shadow
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I like this one:-

 

Your Address

 

 

Their Address

 

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account number:

Your Ref :-

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY OR ANY COMPANY YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT

 

I refer to your letter of XXXXXXXXX, I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to your desk, as you must be aware this account is in dispute with Whatever Company

 

In response to my legal CCA request made on XXXXXXXXX Whatever Company have not supplied a copy of my agreement. This lack of action by Whatever Company does not conform to the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and to date I have received nothing to remedy this.

 

As Whatever Company are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, OFT Collection Guidelines, and is subject of a complaint to The Financial Ombudsman, I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE. As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default, enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to Whatever Company for resolution of these defaults and breaches.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter. I will not enter into any further communications with you or your colleagues in your office, until Whatever Company produces a copy of an executed Credit Agreement.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

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MightyAcorn, wow, the better half says, thank you very much for that, she loves people who know what to say in such lovely words....

Letter done, in Post tomorrow...... bye bye CQ......

Thanks from me also.....

KB

Keefy (:-)The "Moaner":rolleyes:)Boy

Prepared to take on anyone until I win...................

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MightyAcorn, wow, the better half says, thank you very much for that, she loves people who know what to say in such lovely words....

Letter done, in Post tomorrow...... bye bye CQ......

Thanks from me also.....

KB

 

Much as I would love to take the credit for that one Keefy, I can't, I found it on here, but don't ask me where, I'm just pleased to be able to pass it on.

 

Regards

 

MA

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I had this from Nelson Guest on behalf of Wescot...so I phoned them.

 

It was after I sent a sod off letter to each of the 3 addresses I found for them (like your letter they demanded contact to be made with Wescot not them), but got a reply to my letter from W!

 

I had to trawl t'internet for a number as they are strangely hard to get hold of, but eventually found them and called. Got through to reception and explained the situation and she said she'd put me through to the legal dep't. Two minutes later I get 'Welcome to Wescot Legal Services...' Promptly hung up, re-dialled reception and a little more shirtily told her I needed to talk to a sol at NG seeing as it was them who sent the letter.

 

Finally managed to get through to someone who (I was told) worked for NG who was, to be fair, very professional and courteous. She was at great pains to assure me the letters were from their office (same typeset, wording, format etc to Wescots, and came in an envelope with W's return address which made me think otherwise!), apologised that they had chased an unenforceable account 'but we have to rely on what our clients tell us' - the stock answer for banks/dca's/sols/CRA's it seems! - and assured me she would be emailing W to tell them to return to the account to HBOS with the recommendation that it is closed by them!

 

Obviously I take all of that with a pinch of salt, but at them moment there's no more calls from W showing on Truecall, and no letters have come through from either company.

 

What I'm getting to in that long preamble is that maybe if every time one of us receives one of these spurious letters from sols where they clearly have no idea of whether or not they can legally chase it, we should phone them (obviously recording it and not admitting liability for anything!).

 

If enough people phone complaining when they get one of these letters, maybe they'll think twice about taking DCA's on as clients - especially when the SRA are mentioned due to them acting on behalf of a company without doing any background checking regarding whether legal threats are valid...

Time flies like an arrow...

Fruit flies like a banana.

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oh Nice one Lexis, better still phone them from a call box, so if they do decide to try phoning back they will get back to NOONE !!!! I know it would cost a couple of bob but it would be worth it to see (in your dreams) the disappointment with having to send yet another file back to the Owner.....:-)

Keefy (:-)The "Moaner":rolleyes:)Boy

Prepared to take on anyone until I win...................

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  • 5 months later...

Long time not been on here, health issues I am afraid, and these plonkers just don't help when you do not need the stress.

 

Well now the latest update on this one. Both me and the Misses have received letters from Cap1 stating that the accounts are no longer being dealt with by the Debt Collection Agency who were acting on behalf of Crap1. ( Don't thet mean Agencies? )

 

The account has been returned to Cap1 and i must make all payments must be made direct to them...... so I will do exactly what they say and send them NOTHING exactly as I have been sending the Agencies.......

 

Hopefully within the next couple of weeks my solicitor will completing my DRO and they won't get anything from me. The wifes DRO will be hopefully at the end of the month so to end some of the pressures from these companies and their agencies...

Keefy (:-)The "Moaner":rolleyes:)Boy

Prepared to take on anyone until I win...................

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Thanks Dotty, yeah same here, it may help big time. When we saw the solicitor he was amazed that we had struggled each month using food money to pay our creditors some, even be a token amount, just to keep the bug*ers off our backs. So after one big repremand we had to stop paying them totally, all of them, and they aint happy about that so hence the letters and phone calls.

 

Health wise I am still plodding along, my service as a Fireman in the 1970-80's has a lot to answer for. But we were so nieve then and didn't know the risks that all the new idea Foams would cause when exposed to fire. I have several friends who are the same illnesses as me now, with lung disease and other illnesses related to our exposure to these wonderful foams and new materials in beds, lounge suites etc etc..... at least I am still alive, not like some of them.....

Keefy (:-)The "Moaner":rolleyes:)Boy

Prepared to take on anyone until I win...................

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Thanks Dotty... My health comes first now and I will leave the creditors to get nothing... after the CSA takes 45% of my Ill Health pensions we do not even have the minimum that the govt says is what you need to live on. Please don't get me wrong, I am quite prepared to pay something towards my kids, they were of my making as well, but my ex had 3 foreign holidays, kids are all siting with the latest games consoles, laptops, smart phones, and my wife and I don't have enough even for food. The worse part is that the appeals proceedure is done through the CSA themselves and there is no other way to appeal. This was all brought in by the back door method when MP's were on summer recess in 2009 so there was no opposition..... they don't even allow you rent or council tax so they take your money and you can go to prison because you then can not afford to live..... thats the sort of pressures along with creditors...

Keefy (:-)The "Moaner":rolleyes:)Boy

Prepared to take on anyone until I win...................

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  • 5 weeks later...

Well now I can disclose what we have been up to with regards to our debts, we worked with a Solicitor at the Community Law Service and it was decided that our best and only option was to go for a Debt Relief Order, which we applied for on 4th February and got a letter from the Insolvency Service stating that the order had been approved for both of us, so we are now both at ease at long last with our Debts.

 

I will enter a short summary of the Requirements to apply and be accepted for a DRO later today.

Keefy (:-)The "Moaner":rolleyes:)Boy

Prepared to take on anyone until I win...................

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