babegem v Phoenix recoveries/HSBC

[Craftygirl42]

I dont have any experience of the disclosure, but believe the Court should also have copies of phoenix disclosure. Have you rang the Court to see if they have received.

 

If I am totally wrong here, please ignore me

[citizenB]

I still havent had the disclosure, any ideas guys?

 

cant ask for copies without and the deadline has been over a week now. I also havent had reply from the sols to clarify their offer.

 

If the court ordered disclosure to be by a certain date, then they should have done so. As you say, you cant ask to see documents if they havent advised which ones they are using. Perhaps ring the court tomorrow and find out what you should do.

[Beamengine]

It seems to be standard procedure for solicitor to ignore deadlines in the hope that it will encourage you to settle without any disclosure. As they have yet to amend their POC it could well be that their documents aren't in order and they don't want to make you aware of this.

Perhaps you should wait until the deadline for inspection and then point out to the court that they have failed to allow you time to investigate their claim on the timescale set out in the directions. You could then either ask for the claim to be struck out because of their failure to particularise it (unlikely to succeed) or to submit you own list of documents and ask for an order to disclose them. This would put pressure on them especially if you request the deed of assignment and it may help the settlement process.

[babegem]

I spoke to the court, and they have not received anything either. lady there said it has been referred to the judge for comment and action. Said I should write again next week, but could be decided by judge to strike out as disclosure was not negotiable and critical to the claim.

 

Will see, still havent heard response from sols either to clarify the offer.

 

Stalemate?

[fedupwithdebt2009]

My my mortimer Clarke, another case of no disclosure.......you need to be carefull, or you will get a reputation in court ..........all mouth and no trousers!!

 

I will also ring court tomoz to find out whats going on, hopefuly the same here for me...but I dont hold my breath!!!!

[babegem]

I still havent heard a response from the judge after making the point of the disclosure not happening as yet. I officially have two days until I have to have asked for an been given copies of the letters or docs I want to see! Not likely to happen now...

[Spamalot]

I think MC are a bit busy Babe...at the moment they are looking for yours, mine, fedups and craftys.....they don't seem to multitask too well.

Bet they're useless at hide and seek..

[Beamengine]

Be patient, it sounds as though the court is realising that the claimant is having problems with the documents and the judge may well strike out the claim under these circumstances as Largo will have to demonstrate that your debt and the one they have bought are the same.

Interesting scenario if this happens as it would make it difficult for them to use the bankruptcy route. Have you made a complaint to the FOS about HSBC assigning a debt in dispute? You could always offer them what they were paid by Phoenix in full and final settlement

[caro]

Be patient, it sounds as though the court is realising that the claimant is having problems with the documents and the judge may well strike out the claim under these circumstances as Largo will have to demonstrate that your debt and the one they have bought are the same.

Interesting scenario if this happens as it would make it difficult for them to use the bankruptcy route. Have you made a complaint to the FOS about HSBC assigning a debt in dispute? You could always offer them what they were paid by Phoenix in full and final settlement

 

Why offer anything?

[fedupwithdebt2009]

Indeed why offer anything. Phoenix are pushing for us to sign this tomlin order now but I am really unsure what next....if theres a chance it will be struck out because of the claiments incompitance then why should we pay!!!!!

[Beamengine]

Why should you pay - simple, you owe money and the DCAs will not give up until the debt is satisfied one way or the other.

I dealt with one DCA who sent an authorisation form fpr me to act on a friend's behalf that included a statement that I assumed responsibility for the debt. As my friend was dying I obtained the standard authorisation and informed them whey they died. Six month later I had a call from another DCA threatening legal action. I referred them to the "solicitors" for the other DCA and heard no more.

I've also had demands following a bankruptcy so ensure that the debt is either legally unenforceable or is settled.

[caro]

Alternatively there is the issue of promissory estoppal.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/egg/7791-capquest-debt-recovery-egg.html#post1312313

[babegem]

Alternatively there is the issue of promissory estoppal.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/egg/7791-capquest-debt-recovery-egg.html#post1312313

 

Can you tell me anything more about this? I have read the case link however the other cagger wasnt at court stage. Would I send this to the court and Largo or the sols?

 

As I still havent had reply to the letter asking for clarification on the offer, I would expect no reply to anything I sent to them. I wrote to them threatening OFT and FSA complaints, and asking for them to consider referreing back to HSBC to avoid this, they said no, go ahead we will welcome any third party intervention and our complaints dept wouldnt be suitable to resolve your problem (you are telling me!).

 

Is there anything I can do through court to get it stopped, like an order or a form or an application that the court HAVE to respond to? I do want this behind me and understand why you say, why pay them anything if they have no claim, however if they do have an I am pushing my luck as I admitted I owed HSBC but its got lost and muddled and increased etc, I jsut want it behind me whilst I still can sort it out. I can and will SIF if I need to so long as I know its the right people and amounts etc, which I still dont think it all adds up. I will be on maternity leave in November and dont want this hanging around... my boyfriend's family has offered some help if we can all find a way to play nicely and SIF it.

[babegem]

Why should you pay - simple, you owe money and the DCAs will not give up until the debt is satisfied one way or the other.

Yes I owe money, as I keep saying though the question of how much and to whom has never been made clear

I dealt with one DCA who sent an authorisation form fpr me to act on a friend's behalf that included a statement that I assumed responsibility for the debt. As my friend was dying I obtained the standard authorisation and informed them whey they died. Six month later I had a call from another DCA threatening legal action. I referred them to the "solicitors" for the other DCA and heard no more.

I've also had demands following a bankruptcy so ensure that the debt is either legally unenforceable or is settled.

 

I am trying to see if its enforceable, as I have always with this matter because HSBC raised that matter when they passed or sold the debt on if this is what has been done.

 

What happened with you with demands following a bankruptcy? Was it you who was made bankrupt or was this on behalf of someone else? what happend next on it?

[babegem]

Indeed why offer anything. Phoenix are pushing for us to sign this tomlin order now but I am really unsure what next....if theres a chance it will be struck out because of the claiments incompitance then why should we pay!!!!!

 

Did they propose the tomlin order at hearing? Are you considering it? I would possibly have, but again only on condition that I see proof and know the amounts. Unfotunately I am still no further forward, no proof, no conf of amounts and no clarification on SIF offer, so cant do any more now until court decides, they (Largo) do something else, or I can take some action to get it all stopped.

 

Surely Largo are sitting there thinking of a plan, they have spent money to get here through court, so they must have a plan?! Have they been down thir route with anyone previous to thei batch we seem to be part of and seen results either way?

[Beamengine]

Is primary estoppel an issue in this case?

I have seen nothing to suggest that there has been acceptance of any offer by any of the parties involved.

[Beamengine]

I am trying to see if its enforceable, as I have always with this matter because HSBC raised that matter when they passed or sold the debt on if this is what has been done.

 

What happened with you with demands following a bankruptcy? Was it you who was made bankrupt or was this on behalf of someone else? what happened next on it?

 

The longer Largo delay the more likely it is that they can't get the documents to support their claim. You could write to the court pointing out that the claimant has failed to comply with the directions on disclosure and respectfully request the judge for an order that the claim be struck out if they do not comply within seven days.

 

The debt claim following the bankruptcy was easily avoided by pointing out that it was included in the bankruptcy petition and nothing further was heard.

[babegem]

Be patient, it sounds as though the court is realising that the claimant is having problems with the documents and the judge may well strike out the claim under these circumstances as Largo will have to demonstrate that your debt and the one they have bought are the same.

Interesting scenario if this happens as it would make it difficult for them to use the bankruptcy route. Have you made a complaint to the FOS about HSBC assigning a debt in dispute? You could always offer them what they were paid by Phoenix in full and final settlement

 

Do you mean if the judge strikes it out then they will have problems with trying for bankruptcy? What problems do you think? I haven made a complaint as yet, I am planning to, but have had flu for a week and with being pregnant, my birthday and the stress its just one thing too much to add letter writing etc when have been stuck in bed.

 

How do I know what Phoenix paid for the debt? (by them do you mean HSBC or Largo?) HSBC wont deal with a SIF now if they have sold it on... but if I could find out what Phoenix paid then I could use that to make an offer of my own, to be paid upon provision of some documentary evidence of totals and ownership..

 

What happens if they cant ever show the proof only some of the docs that are botched? I doubt they will write it off... but how can they expect me to pay for anything, even if I have admitted I did owe HSBC at one point and amount, without showing it to be enforceable?

[babegem]

Is primary estoppel an issue in this case?

I have seen nothing to suggest that there has been acceptance of any offer by any of the parties involved.

 

Does it only cover offers? Or does it cover legally witnessed promises to take or give action eg disclosure?

[babegem]

The longer Largo delay the more likely it is that they can't get the documents to support their claim. You could write to the court pointing out that the claimant has failed to comply with the directions on disclosure and respectfully request the judge for an order that the claim be struck out if they do not comply within seven days.

 

I did this already, but havent heard anything from the court...

 

The debt claim following the bankruptcy was easily avoided by pointing out that it was included in the bankruptcy petition and nothing further was heard.

 

I already raised attention to the court, and dont want to **** off the judge by going overboard, but do you think I should write again, possibly to the court manager? I have never heard back from them on the four occaisions I wrote, and all the court told me was to write and complain.

[babegem]

still nothing this end either from court or the claimant, any of you had anything who are waiting?

 

I wish they would get in touch as feel am at stalemate and just want to get it sorted one way or another.

[Beamengine]

still nothing this end either from court or the claimant, any of you had anything who are waiting?

 

I wish they would get in touch as feel am at stalemate and just want to get it sorted one way or another.

Largo don't appear to be able to prove their claim and HSBC may have mase it impossible. Whatever happens they must show title to the debts that you have admitted but this is looking increasingly unlikely.

To establish their claim they must show that

1. the debt was properly assigned (deed of assignment)

2. that it is made up of the debts you have acknowledged

3. HSBC could legally amalgamate the debts into a single current account

 

You have already asked the court to enforce disclosure and to set time limits and invited the judge to dismiss the claim if they fail to provide supporting documentation.

 

What was the date for the bundle to be sent to the court and were the claimants responsible for producing it? If so you should contact the court on that date explaining lack of contact and ask for the claim to be stayed as it is impossible for you to provide a defence.

[babegem]

bump

[caro]

I already raised attention to the court, and dont want to **** off the judge by going overboard, but do you think I should write again, possibly to the court manager? I have never heard back from them on the four occaisions I wrote, and all the court told me was to write and complain.

 

Was this addressed directly to the judge? If so I suggest that you phone the court, explain that you wrote on such and such a date because the claimants have failed to comply with the court's order so you believe the case should be struck out. Explain that you understand that they must be very busy but could they give an indication of how long it might be before the judge might look at your case and when you're likely to hear a decision on whether the case is to proceed. Tell them that you're pregnant and that you're finding the delay stressful not knowing what's going to happen.

[Beamengine]

Was this addressed directly to the judge? If so I suggest that you phone the court, explain that you wrote on such and such a date because the claimants have failed to comply with the court's order so you believe the case should be struck out. Explain that you understand that they must be very busy but could they give an indication of how long it might be before the judge might look at your case and when you're likely to hear a decision on whether the case is to proceed. Tell them that you're pregnant and that you're finding the delay stressful not knowing what's going to happen.

I agree, you may wish to add that the claimant's failures (request to amend POC and failure to do so, disclosure, etc.) may amount to vexatious behaviour. Send a copy to the solicitor which will certainly provoke a reaction if that is what you are looking for.