How credit cards & bank loans REALLY work - Learn, & this will change your whole life!!

[the_shadow]

I knew who you were referring to(thought it better to save you time asking the question) but if you own shares in a company, you do not own the bank. You might think that but that is not correct.

 

Perhaps "own" is the wrong word... more like "control" with the obvious major shareholding the british public in effect has control over aforementioned banks via the current muppet regime.

[Stornoway]

ALso you only responded to 2 of the 3, what about Manufacturing ? where has all that gone, the lifeblood of any economy ? The biggest employer by sector , typically ?

 

i'll tell you where, its gone to the Far East and it ain't coming back here any time soon!

 

Ok, I'll respond to the 3rd point also ;

 

It's a fabrication that Britain doesn't make things any more, article by Philip Whyte, The Times, 13 March 2009

 

Its true that a lot of jobs manufacturing jobs have been lost but its mostly the type of sweat job roles that we dont want. Britain needs to focus on high end manufacturing and product and development roles and let the less developed nations do the hard graft metal bashing for us at a price that is much cheaper than we could ever hope to compete with.

 

From the Sunday Times;

"

It's a fabrication that Britain doesn't make things any more.

People who believe that British manufacturing has gone to the dogs tend to pay more attention to factory closures in industries that are in long-term decline rather than they do to rising output in other parts of manufacturing. The UK may no longer be a big producer of textiles but it is still a big player in many high-end sectors. Rolls-Royce and BAe Systems, for example, are key actors in the aerospace industry. Two of the world's largest pharmaceuticals groups are British (GlaxoSmithKline and AstraZeneca). And Cambridge is Europe's leading cluster for biotechnology.

The UK even has an automotive industry - and not just in niches like Formula One, where it is a world leader. True, the demise of MG Rover in 2005 brought an end to mass car production by British companies. But thanks to companies such as Nissan (whose Sunderland plant is the most productive in the EU), the UK automotive sector produced more vehicles and engines in 2007 than ever before. Some people argue that output by foreign-owned companies in the UK should not be treated as British manufacturing. But on that logic, London is not an important financial centre.

If output has been rising, why has manufacturing's share of GDP been declining? The answer, of course, is that output in the service sector has grown by more. What explains the rise in service sector output? Part of it is outsourcing: activities that manufacturers previously carried out in-house are now provided by service providers (think of catering). But the more important reason is that as countries become wealthier, they spend a growing share of their income on services (education, healthcare, holidays, meals out and so on).

The decline in the manufacturing sector's share of GDP, it follows, is not a uniquely British phenomenon: it has taken place across the developed world. The process has admittedly gone farther in Britain than in Germany or Japan. But these two countries, where manufacturing still accounts for more than a fifth of GDP, are outliers. The UK is closer to the developed country norm. And President Sarkozy is wrong: manufacturing output accounts for a larger share of GDP in the UK (13 per cent) than it does in France (12 per cent) or the United States (12 per cent)."

 

Nuk Em - your posts are a combination of mis-information, conspiracy theories, half truths and (more worringly) your own personal views presented to Caggers as truths. Dont believe everything you read in the media - do your own proper research and dont be blinkered.

[nuke em]

Ok, I'll respond to the 3rd point also ;

 

It's a fabrication that Britain doesn't make things any more, article by Philip Whyte, The Times, 13 March 2009

 

Its true that a lot of jobs manufacturing jobs have been lost but its mostly the type of sweat job roles that we dont want. Britain needs to focus on high end manufacturing and product and development roles and let the less developed nations do the hard graft metal bashing for us at a price that is much cheaper than we could ever hope to compete with.

 

From the Sunday Times;

"

It's a fabrication that Britain doesn't make things any more.

People who believe that British manufacturing has gone to the dogs tend to pay more attention to factory closures in industries that are in long-term decline rather than they do to rising output in other parts of manufacturing. The UK may no longer be a big producer of textiles but it is still a big player in many high-end sectors. Rolls-Royce and BAe Systems, for example, are key actors in the aerospace industry. Two of the world's largest pharmaceuticals groups are British (GlaxoSmithKline and AstraZeneca). And Cambridge is Europe's leading cluster for biotechnology.

The UK even has an automotive industry - and not just in niches like Formula One, where it is a world leader. True, the demise of MG Rover in 2005 brought an end to mass car production by British companies. But thanks to companies such as Nissan (whose Sunderland plant is the most productive in the EU), the UK automotive sector produced more vehicles and engines in 2007 than ever before. Some people argue that output by foreign-owned companies in the UK should not be treated as British manufacturing. But on that logic, London is not an important financial centre.

If output has been rising, why has manufacturing's share of GDP been declining? The answer, of course, is that output in the service sector has grown by more. What explains the rise in service sector output? Part of it is outsourcing: activities that manufacturers previously carried out in-house are now provided by service providers (think of catering). But the more important reason is that as countries become wealthier, they spend a growing share of their income on services (education, healthcare, holidays, meals out and so on).

The decline in the manufacturing sector's share of GDP, it follows, is not a uniquely British phenomenon: it has taken place across the developed world. The process has admittedly gone farther in Britain than in Germany or Japan. But these two countries, where manufacturing still accounts for more than a fifth of GDP, are outliers. The UK is closer to the developed country norm. And President Sarkozy is wrong: manufacturing output accounts for a larger share of GDP in the UK (13 per cent) than it does in France (12 per cent) or the United States (12 per cent)."

 

Nuk Em - your posts are a combination of mis-information, conspiracy theories, half truths and (more worringly) your own personal views presented to Caggers as truths. Dont believe everything you read in the media - do your own proper research and dont be blinkered.

 

 

 

Stornaway - Dont believe everthing you read in the media you tell me , & then you quote me some waffle from the Sunday Times, a Murdoch controlled Paper?? pleeeeese , wake up , smell the coffee. It is you who need to do some research!

 

Your posts ( with regards to this important matter) are just a collection of powder puff pieces written by the mainstream (mis)information media which you have cut n pasted into here !

 

plus i am convinced ( by your complete denial answers ) you work in the financial sector.... but of course i maybe wrong on this particular point!

 

---

 

This will also help you understand the scale of the problem we are in and goes back to my orig point of how 97% of "money" is created as debt

 

http://www.theundergroundinvestor.com/2008/12/an-exploration-of-madoff%E2%80%99s-50-billion-ponzi-scheme-will-unveil-the-root-causes-of-this-global-monetary-crisis/

 

for some stunning insight check this guy out, a very sucessful trader, with thousands of posts on Marketwatch ( mainly usa based, but what they do, we do. of course they have Central Bak ( the "Fed") just like we do)

 

http://fdralloveragain.blogspot.com/ ( check out his January to April info)

 

-----

 

apparantly the one of the best financial predictions blog site out there

 

http://www.financialarmageddon.com/

 

 

---------

 

plus another clever man

 

http://www.zerohedge.blogspot.com/ he is a money trader , he comes from the technicals of what is going on

 

 

Jim Willie at www.goldenjackass.com is very forthright , even has to live in Costa Rica now for his safety ( the best stuff is for members only, unfortunatley)

 

 

 

as always, just follow the money !

 

finally

 

check this guy out on youTube, he tells it like it is, he is a homegrown MEP ( this has 2.2 million hits so far)

HE JUST COVERS THE BASICS, but he is correct

 

Edited April 27, 2009 by nuke em

[charlie*]

Notn far above this post there is one of mine describing how the Bank of England works......

 

It's a [problem]... why don't we all write to our MP's asking them to raise the matter in the House.... dammit, if an American Senator can do it (see

video above... last post of mine), then why can't we?

 

At one stroke, ALL debt could be cancelled and the Bank could be closed

in favour of placing the issuance and control of 'money' in the hands of the Treasury.

 

All it needs if a man of courage ( we used to have plenty in the country until New Labour) to put his country and the people above his loyalty to those who actually control the monetary system - the bunch of private bankers some of whom also own the Fed (don't forget, Britain stills owns America).

 

charlie*

Edited April 26, 2009 by charlie*

[beanbaby]

just like to say what a wicked thread this is

 

my contempt for our finacial institutions has just increased by 100% after reading this tonight ....[ bet l cant get off to sleep now]

 

l cant believe lve been able to understand most of these posts

 

thanks for making most of it simple u guys, [l do simple extreemly well ]

 

nighty night x

[nuke em]

just like to say what a wicked thread this is

 

my contempt for our finacial institutions has just increased by 100% after reading this tonight ....[ bet l cant get off to sleep now]

 

l cant believe lve been able to understand most of these posts

 

thanks for making most of it simple u guys, [l do simple extreemly well ]

 

nighty night x

 

 

Charlie* , you are one of the righteous people, 'cos YOU GET IT! you always did

 

Beanbaby, now you have seen the light, it changes your whole perpective of DEBT!!!! i.e it (debt) only exsists on their Computer Screens & yet we have exchange our blood, sweat & tears to pay their freckin' interest ( usuary). bANKSTERS WHO NEEDS 'EM!

 

some more reading.....

 

http://www.jaspersbox.com/

 

also

 

also search this out on Google, written in 1935, this was his last & best book on our money supply & debt

 

"Irving Fisher - 100% Money"

 

this has some good info as well

 

http://dailybail.com/ ( bailout etc )

 

 

finally , if anyone has spare money, get it out of banks ( before they go bust) and buy PURE Silver or PURE Gold , not jewelry, but bullion , sovereigns, eagles etc, this always will be money and has no third-party risk

 

 

UNLIKE OUR ZOMBIE BANKS!

Edited April 27, 2009 by nuke em

[nuke em]

Some joyious reading for the weekend....

 

Did the Bilderberg Group Plan the Economic Depression II? :: The Market Oracle :: Financial Markets Analysis & Forecasting Free Website

 

and this

 

Deadly Derivatives

[nuke em]

i have more in this in a couple of days, meanwhile here is a bump , as everyone should understand how money as debt is created

[nuke em]

Bump, because now more than ever people need to know how 97% of "money" and "currency" is created

 

When you take out a mortage from a bank, the bank just "monitizes" the document you have just signed, it has cost them nothing apart from a little in admin costs, there is no consideration of actual money "lent",( which should be in pure contract terms, they lend you essentially your own money! but they dont give you interest to pay it back! you have to debt-slave you own hard endevours for that part!

 

same with credit cards , same racket

 

check this guy's blog out , i've been following it for over a year now, he constantly calls it as it is, usa based but still very relavent, he get angry al calls it as it is!

 

The Market Ticker

 

pay down debt, default the debt if you cant pay it, get you money out of banks, get out of the stock market, keep some in pure gold or silver ( not jewlery), the only true protector of weath that just cant be "printed". buy some canned food and pray!

[diddydicky]

Bump, because now more than ever people need to know how 97% of "money" and "currency" is created

 

When you take out a mortage from a bank, the bank just "monitizes" the document you have just signed, it has cost them nothing apart from a little in admin costs, there is no consideration of actual money "lent",( which should be in pure contract terms, they lend you essentially your own money! but they dont give you interest to pay it back! you have to debt-slave you own hard endevours for that part!

 

same with credit cards , same racket

 

check this guy's blog out , i've been following it for over a year now, he constantly calls it as it is, usa based but still very relavent, he get angry al calls it as it is!

 

The Market Ticker

 

pay down debt, default the debt if you cant pay it, get you money out of banks, get out of the stock market, keep some in pure gold or silver ( not jewlery), the only true protector of weath that just cant be "printed". buy some canned food and pray!

 

after all your missives i feel like i am waiting for the punchline- as in the interminable religious channels on sky

 

 

that'll be 50 dollars!!

[nuke em]

der punchline is................. protect yourself. 'cos nobody else especially the gov will!

[charlie*]

bump

 

just gotta do something

[nuke em]

bump

 

just gotta do something

 

 

i agree. Bump

[TryingToGetEven]

So we've discussed the problem, does anyone have a solution?

[banker_rhymes_with]

So we've discussed the problem, does anyone have a solution?

Yes, a damned good Peasant's Revolt that involves the imprisonment of all bankers and the majority of our useless self-serving politicians.

 

The turd has been wagging the dog for too long.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[the_shadow]

So we've discussed the problem, does anyone have a solution?

 

Go back to bartering and abolish money ;-)

 

S.

[nuke em]

Notn far above this post there is one of mine describing how the Bank of England works......

 

It's a [problem]... why don't we all write to our MP's asking them to raise the matter in the House.... dammit, if an American Senator can do it (see

video above... last post of mine), then why can't we?

 

At one stroke, ALL debt could be cancelled and the Bank could be closed

in favour of placing the issuance and control of 'money' in the hands of the Treasury.

 

All it needs if a man of courage ( we used to have plenty in the country until New Labour) to put his country and the people above his loyalty to those who actually control the monetary system - the bunch of private bankers some of whom also own the Fed (don't forget, Britain stills owns America).

 

charlie*

 

 

i think i discussed the solution on the first page, and Charlie* has said similiar, quoted above....... BUT the solution we all crave for is NOT the solution the bankers want. what is good for the sheeple is not so good for the banksters.

 

Most people are on PAYE, why do you think PAYE was invented?, well many reasons of course, but the number 1 reason is so the Gov gets your money at payday so they can pay the interest on the national debt ( of course amongst many other things as well)

 

imagine if we were all paid gross and had to pay out our taxes say every month. Then we could affect serious change by [all] witholding our taxes, that would make the Gov & banksters listen. a tax holiday!

 

Another other thing we actually do is not to buy things, only buy the essentials, pay down debt. just dont consume as much, save more. That stops more money being created as debt

 

We need our Gov to issue its own debt free money, the banksters are never going to allow that. In America every president who ever tried it apart from Andrew Jackson was assinated for it, inc JFK. Our history & culture goes much deeper than the americans. Fractional Reserve banking was conceived by the Rothchilds, put in place by the Bank of England since 1642 and we have been stuck with it, via our ingrained Establishment ever since. Is it all bad? No, not in the days of restrained lending & liquidity ratios of say 8 to 1. but why do we need it at all?

 

Have debt free money OR money as debt. The sheeple ( if they understood these things and were ever given a choice) would vote for option 1, the banksters , who know the sheeple understand very little & who control most of the media, Gov etc will make dam sure we are kept in option 2

 

For a good example of debt-free money working, look into the history of Guernsey, they've had debt free money for years and although they are a small island and a small poplation ,the people pay very little of their income as taxes and yet they have a very high standard of living, why? 'cos there is no massive national (relative to teh country's size) interest payments to make.

 

BTW, watch out for the next round of "attacks" on so called "tax havens" BY THE POLITICIANS ( prompted by the banksters), which are in fact not tax-havens but low tax economies, like Guernsey. Under the "war on terror" BS they will come under increasing attack as the reason that the Global Economy is in such dire straits etc, as they are "hoarding all the money" etc. All utter nonsense of course, but the banksters & politicians need more scapegoats to divert our attention from what's really happening and whose really to blame...

 

also

 

Charlie* do you have any more info on defenses based around contract law you can put up here or pm me?

 

--------------------

Edited July 8, 2009 by nuke em

[diddydicky]

blimey the ultimate conspiracy theorist

 

do you have to take sleeping tablets nuke? makes my head spin just reading it all

[nuke em]

Not going to find this on mainstream TV/media. Never gonna happen, to inform the public. Just look at the expenses debacle going on now, its been going on for years & years, only now its a "suprise" to the sheeple that its surfaced , Quelle Supris!

 

As always, follow the money, there as always you find the truth!

 

Look here is the thing, if you have a regular job, regular life, go to the pub, watch deadenders or corrie, read/watch the mainsteam media and and dont have too many problems, all of this doesnt affect you day to day. And most people in this country are not really affected by it yet, you get paid, pay your bills, have a holiday once a year , whats the problem?

 

Nothing?

 

But, if you're not, or have ever wondered how the "system" works, you start to research and when you do , its scary what you find out

[nuke em]

bump!

 

Charlie* are you around?

[nuke em]

more info.....

 

Money as Debt

[ajax95]

If you have a regular job, regular life, go to the pub, watch deadenders or corrie, read/watch the mainsteam media and and dont have too many problems, all of this doesnt affect you day to day. And most people in this country are not really affected by it yet, you get paid, pay your bills, have a holiday once a year , whats the problem?

 

Nothing?

 

But, if you're not, or have ever wondered how the "system" works, you start to research and when you do , its scary what you find out

 

What's just as scary is that it'll all die down once the economy recovers, and a lot of people will forget about it... until the next recession :-|

[nuke em]

true.....

 

 

this link explains the whole rotten to the core show

 

 

[EDIT] ...... Link removed.

Edited July 24, 2009 by Rooster-UK
Link removed.

[yourbank]

Nuke em, can you remove that last link because it has on the same page, links to a conspiracy video about 7/7(The London Bombings).

I find it distasteful to say the least. Thank you.

[nuke em]

Here's how the Loans [problem] works

 

( This is not my work, i just cut n pasted it although it is what i have been saying for the last year or so )

 

 

(And why you should NEVER feel sorry for Banks and so on)

 

(As simplified as I can make it, based on the work of Robert-Arthur: Menard, Mary-Elizabeth: Croft and (to some extent Winston Shrout and Irene-Maus: Gravenhorst), and John R. Dempsey of Sovereign Trust. I've just tried to reduce it to absolute fundamentals)

 

1) Banks: They take deposits. These are held in trust for the depositor. They must, by law, always be prepared to return any and all deposits back to depositors on demand. That's the LAW. They would not be able to do that if they were ever to lend out any money on deposit to anyone requesting a loan. They cannot, therefore, lend or invest anything entrusted to them. So the question is: Where do they get the money from, in order to loan it to you?

 

2) Loan Companies, Credit Card Companies, Building Societies: They don't take deposit money anyway (I'm talking about the 'older version' of Building Societies before they became banks. I'm referring to the way they would just issue mortgages. Their 'banking' activities are controlled as in (1), above). So the question is: Where do they get the money from, in order to loan it to you as a mortgage?

 

Leave that question pending for a moment.

 

3) What is a cheque? Paper, printing ink, somewhere you can hand-write a Payee, and Amount (in numbers and words), a Date, and somewhere to write your signature.

 

4) What is a Loan Application/Agreement? Paper, printing ink, somewhere a Payee will be written (the name of the Loan Company), somewhere for an Amount (in numbers and words), a Date, and somewhere to write your signature.

 

Do you see any similarity between (3) & (4)?

 

A Loan Agreement is a cheque. (Cheques can be written on anything ... even toilet paper ... provided it contains the essential information so as to enable correct clearance processing)

 

You send off the Loan Agreement to the Loan Company ... and they CASH YOUR CHEQUE! They cash it with an organisation that has the power to issue 'money' for that purpose (for example the Treasury, or the Bank of England, etc)

 

NOW THEY HAVE THE MONEY, IN CASH, TO LEND TO YOU!

 

Simple. Wasn't it?

 

But wait! Sure, they provided the 'service' of converting your cheque into funds within an account you can drawn upon (write other cheques against, use a Credit Card against, etc). And they could do that because they knew how to do that. And yes, that was a service. And yes, they should be paid a fee for that service.

 

But wait again! What is their 'fee'? Their 'servicing fee'?

 

Oh ... only THE ENTIRE AMOUNT OF YOUR ORIGINAL CHEQUE, PLUS INTEREST!

 

That's all they ask for .. in order to provide the original service!

 

How to do they ensure they collect this 'service fee'. By giving you a Payment Book! And they make sure they cream off the INTEREST, before applying the remainder as PAYMENT. In fact they even cajole you into never-ending INTEREST by specifying a minimum payment equal to the INTEREST they want. (Knowing full well you'll often opt for that, thereby allowing them to roll the whole thing on endlessly)

 

Now let's view this another way.

 

If you write a cheque for £100, and send it to someone else (the Payee), and they cash it - DO YOU EXPECT THE BANK TO DEDUCT ANOTHER £100 PLUS INTEREST - FOR ITSELF - AS WELL?

 

No? You don't when you write a cheque you 'see' as a cheque do you?

 

Well, then, why should they do that just because you can't 'see' a Loan Agreement as the cheque it actually is?

 

MONEY IS CREATED WHEN YOU SIGN A PIECE OF PAPER AGREEING TO PAY.

 

AND THAT'S THE ONLY WAY MONEY IS -EVER- CREATED.

 

Your 'promise to pay' creates money. Yours, and everyone else's.

 

 

So what -should- happen, then?

 

What should happen is that you write out a cheque - promising to pay - and send it to the Treasury yourself. They would then 'cash' it (in the same way they do that for a Bank), by updating an account with the amount you specified, from which you can draw funds as you need them.

 

That's it. Your 'promise to pay' stands until the end of time. That's all money is. A 'promise to pay', which stands until the end of time.

 

All money. "All thee bits of it".

 

Check out a Banknote. What does it say? "I promise to pay the Bearer on demand the sum of so-many-pounds". And signed by the Governor of the Bank of England (in the UK). A banknote is a Promissory Note - just like a cheque or Loan Agreement or any other IOU. An IOU that stands until the end of time.

 

What should a Bank do? It should simply accept the 'cash' from the Treasury, and operate the account for you.

 

And claim a reasonable - SMALL - fee for providing you with this convenience.

 

If you agree to some of your funds being invested, the bank should deduct their fees as commission, and not bother you with any other 'charges' at all.

 

THIS IS WHERE WE NEED TO GET TO. To be able to convert your SIGNATURE directly, without any Bank or Loan Company intervening.

 

 

And now for something completely different

 

When you sent them your cheque (aka Loan Agreement) and they cashed it, they could have just walked away with your money. If they'd done that, you wouldn't have known any difference.

 

They could have just written to you and said "Sorry, we didn't approve this loan, after all"

 

You would have been miffed at not getting the loan but, on the other hand, slightly relieved you didn't have the payments hanging over you, believing that the whole thing was 'dead'.

 

Dead? They were 'up' by the amount of the loan! And you were empty-handed! And you had given them that amount!

 

Dead? I should cocoa!

 

No. They are greedy, greedy, greedy, greedy. They want INTEREST. Never-ending INTEREST. They POSITIVELY HATE IT when you pay off a loan. Have you noticed? Try getting a loan, and then paying it back immediately. TRY IT.

 

No. They can lend you your own money, and then claim it back PLUS INTEREST, if they don't just walk away.

 

That's why they don't just walk away.

 

Every loan taken out generates money for them. Generated by your payments back.

 

That's where banks (etc.) get their money from. All they need to do is to make as sure as possible you've fallen for this [problem] sufficient times in the past, so as to be pretty sure you'll fall for it again.

 

If you 'default' on payments, they had ALREADY BEEN PAID IN FULL RIGHT AT THE START. They took the risk with it. Exactly the same risk as when they invest anywhere. If prices go down, they simply lose, write off the experience, and try elsewhere. Do they send bailiffs if 'prices go down'? Err ... no.

 

They 'involve' themselves when (as explained above) they have no need to be. The risks of doing so are, therefore, entirely theirs, and consequently there is absolutely no need to feel sorry for them.

 

YOU, on the other hand, don't owe ANYTHING to ANYONE.

 

What YOU did was to 'make some money' - and then spend it the way you wanted to spend it.

 

And why not? 'Money was made' by you SIGNING a cheque and thereby 'promising to pay'. I repeat, that's the only way 'money is ever made'.

 

They were the ones who jammed their oar into that simple mechanism.

 

 

And now for something that gets really silly

 

Mortgages. The method for obtaining the cash amount is the same as described above. But there is more to mortgages that meet the eye. (More, over and above, straight loans).

 

Here a property, in the form of a dwelling, is being transferred from one owner to another (actually one keeper to another, not owner, but that's another subject).

 

Now, it is illegal to mortgage a property you don't own. The property is considered to be the security on the loan. How can you be providing 'security' when you don't - at that time - actually own the thing?

 

And, secondly, it is illegal to transfer a property/dwelling that has not yet been paid for.

 

So ... what does this mean? You can't establish a loan, because you don't have any security to offer. Therefore you can't pay for it, because you can't get the loan money. (Err ... no. You can't offer you current home as security, because you are probably in the process of selling it!) And, since you can't pay for it, the Seller can't transfer it into your name.

 

But ... on the other hand ... people can and do establish mortgages, do buy homes, and do move house.

 

How is this done?

 

Well ... it happens by 'magic'. The Bank/Building Society uses 'magic'.

 

Not really paranormal 'magic', of course ... more akin to fraud, in actual fact.

 

John Dempsey, of Sovereign Trust, explains in absolute detail how the Magic Bank operates.

 

(Sovereign Trust, btw, don't employ any form of magic/fraud. They do it honestly, openly, candidly, and all above board)