orange

[juliex]

hi

 

just wondering if anyone can help us we are with 02 at this minute, we have had countless problems with connectivity it is quite bad,, not with orange our other provider,,,,before...so we had a call of a third party called southline who said they could get us back to orange and saying that our bill would be a certain amount each month, we discussed this amount and we were not happy with this we told them so...they sent us an email to say that they would try to get the tarriff down we were waiting to hear from them..meanwhile they sent sim cards out to us,,,,i will make it clear we did not wish them to send them, but they did,,,,,my neighbour signed for them,,,,,does this make us liable,,, they say because our neigh bour signed for them it does meanwhile this has gone on for three months, and orange want near £600 from us we contacted orange from the first bill we got which was for £200 and we stated we did not want this service..we have kept getting more bills in the meantime..which we have contacted them about.. what can we do orange are now going to refer our bill to a debt agency we are horrified....all southline say is that we agreed to it

 

any help would be really good at this minute

 

thanks

julie

[flyingdoc]

2 Questions

 

Have you signed any form of contract or agreement (I know the neighbour signed for delivery) but other than that.

 

Have you used the cards at all?

[juliex]

hi

 

no aggreements have been signed,, they wanted a letterheaded form [because it will come under business use] for our consent to port the numbers over from 02 to orange,, we never did this because we did not want the phones, southline are saying things that just do not ring true! they said that they phoned my husband on the 21st oct and that my husband said he was quite happy with the service [ what service he is refering to i dont know] we were at that time getting calls from orange debt recovery wanting there money we kept telling them we did not want this service, they also advised us not to open the sim cards so time has gone on on the bill keeps getting bigger,, both sides seem to be telling us its our fault for acepting the sims,, and to answer you question no the sim card have not been touched also if they have not ported our numbers over which they needed our consent why is orange giving us bills.

i am at a loss to this

thanks

jue

[flyingdoc]

I would return the sim cards to them Registered post and then ignore any further attempts to collect upon this.

 

If they want to take it to court they will have to prove a contract exists. since no contract exists they have not a leg to stand upon.

 

If they continue to contact you to harrass you regarding this so called debt then tell them that you will instigate action under the anti harassment act of 1997 unless they desist.

 

dont let them bully you

[naughtykitten]

If nothing was signed by yourselves, & obviously they are saying it was all agreed to over the phone in the first place so there would be no agreement via internet either, you have never used the sims & a neighbour signed for them, I agree they are highly unlikely to be able to prove they have any contract with you.

 

They would need to prove that they have a contract with you to get you to pay them anything. If you have never made a payment to them, you have never signed any paperwork & have not used the sims then you have not acknowledged any contract existing so I would agree with flyingdoc & send the sims back to them registered post, perhaps with an informal typed letter saying that they have been received in error, & do not sign it. Keep a copy of this & get a print out of the signature from when they sign for it at their end & I would not acknowledge their attempts to collect any payments from you.

[juliex]

hi

 

many thanks for your help, the thing is orange are going to refer the bill to debt collectors,, and will not back down on anything we have to say,,,the girl is rather nasty and keeps telling us we are at fault,, southline are saying how come we are phoning them up now,, well try and get through to them is a joke always an answer phone but we did phone orange up the first day we got a bill and asked them why they were sending us this bill we do not have an acount with you,, they were looking into it for us,,,,for the past three months? now its our fault they say,,,i also asked southline [why they did not port the numbers over then if she says we agreed to it i said you needed a letterhead we never gave her one] she muffled something about the sims,,, are these companies allowed to threaten people with debt collecting companies like this

 

i am just worried that we will have people knocking at the door otherwise i would tell them were to stick there sims*****

 

do they tape you calls because while i was ranting on to her i heard noise's in background,,,

 

 

many thanks again

jue

[postggj]

hu juliex

it seems you have been a victim of what is called slamming

in your favour is that you have not put the sim cards into the phone.

that is acepting the service

 

unsure on this one so dont want to give false hope

 

send a pm to a cagger called buzby

he will give you the full sp

[naughtykitten]

The orange debt collection department is called Northern Debt Recovery -more than likely still in the same office. I have dealt with them before & they are very agressive but not very bright. Expect threatening letters from them, but like I said, it's still just from Orange.

 

It might be a good idea to speak to the CAB (or your solicitor if they can't help) to get advice on where you stand legally. If they can't prove that you have accepted the service in any way then I'm not sure how they think they can keep persuing you.

 

It may be that one of their staff has ballsed up at some point & they didn't send you any form of contract to sign when they should have.

 

They do record calls, but that's nothing to worry about -most companies do it.

 

Hopefully someone with more legal knowledge can advise if you need to request proof that they have a contract with you, & what to do from here.

 

If you don't get advice after a couple of days just post 'bump' until you do.

 

Hope you get it sorted. I would never be with Orange for anything after how terrible they are now -seems the whole company has changed since that french company took them over (forget the name)!, as they used to be quite good years ago...

[flyingdoc]

My reiteration of the short answer is that they do not have a contract ergo they cannot sue you.

Lets break down your story and examine it

 

we had a call of a third party called southline who said they could get us back to orange and saying that our bill would be a certain amount each month,

 

This is an offer from the company

 

we discussed this amount and we were not happy with this we told them so

 

this is you refusing their offer

 

they sent us an email to say that they would try to get the tarriff down we were waiting to hear from them

 

This means nothing - it is not an offer, as it doesn't contain specific terms.

 

.....meanwhile they sent sim cards out to us

 

This is what is called presumptive selling - they send you the item on the basis that you will probably use it, and by doing so accept it.

It is, in effect unsolicited goods, and even if you had signed for delivery, you wouldnt have been accepting the contract, just acknowledging delivery.(unless the delivery person was sneaky and got you to sign contract - would put nothing past them, However you didnt sign for it so no worries here)

 

There is absolutely nothing here to hang any kind of contract on so I would, as I said, return the cards to them recorded ( you are actually doing a favour in this as with unsolicited goods they should send you a return label) and refuse point blank to discuss.

 

If they threaten to take you to court, say fine - you will be intereste in how they intend to pursue a debt based on a contract which never existed.

 

If a debt collection agency contacts you tell them that you have no contract with orange - have had no services off orange and therefore do not acknowledge any indebtedness.

 

Take the name of the person that rings you and request that they do not ring again but if they wish to contact you to write to you at the address provided by orange.

 

They will try all the bullying tricks in the book but do not give in - they are thieves. dont let them get away with it.

 

We are here to help so if there are any developments, let us know.

[juliex]

hi

 

thanks for that makes it seem easier just dont like the way they operate telling us we are at fault.... but they are also saying that we agreed to all of it.. i will tell you that the conectivity with our provider at this moment has been bad and we have had quite a lot of phones delivered and sims my jist is that our neighbour has alway taken our deliveries in and my husband is adament that he never wished for these sims to be delivered to us,,, now it might be that the persons involved in delivering them know that next door will take them in no problem..so has just done it. can orange operate in this way and also the other company,,,they say we have agreed to everthing,,,,, i know i am going over old ground but anyway i will also get advice as you say from the cab i have tried with another organisation as i am quite worried.... but will keep you informed of this...

 

many many thanks in taking time to reply

 

jue

[OrangePrimate]

Hi Juliex

 

Try not to worry too much, Flyingdoc is 100% correct in the advice they have given.

The sims and/or phones will have been sent out to you by the 3rd party dealer Southline and forwarded the details on to Orange to get the equipment activated. This means that they are 'live' and reasy to use so the network start charging line rental (although the bills you are mentioning do seem quite steep!)

 

Dont use the sims or any phones at all. return them to Southline (NOT Orange, they didnt send them out so will have no means of tracking them) make sure it is done by registered trackable delivery and call Orange CS. (call to Business dept - 345 from another Orange phone if you someone who has one, or 07973100345)

 

Frontline CSR's come across this alot and will be able to deal with it and help. Collections dept can only deal with trying to get outstanding amounts, they dont have the facility to check accounts/dealers ect. Also ask for Dealer feedback to be carried out, explaining everything as you have above. this will then be entered on to the account notes and will be able to be seen by the relevant depts.

In the meantime you will be able to tell the DCA to hang on (or themselves!) for a while as it is in dispute. What should happen then is that Orange will insist the Southline cancel the connections and the billing issue will go away.

hope that helps

[juliex]

hi

 

well what can i say i will do all you say and many thanks i will let u know how i get on with them....footnote,,while i am doing this they do u think they will withhold us with the debt company do i need to tell them it is still in dispute

 

 

many thanks

 

jue

[juliex]

hi

 

can anyone give me advice on a letter to send to southline also sending the sims back to them

 

would be gratefull for this

[juliex]

Try not to worry too much, Flyingdoc is 100% correct in the advice they have given.

The sims and/or phones will have been sent out to you by the 3rd party dealer Southline and forwarded the details on to Orange to get the equipment activated. This means that they are 'live' and reasy to use so the network start charging line rental (although the bills you are mentioning do seem quite steep!)

 

Dont use the sims or any phones at all. return them to Southline (NOT Orange, they didnt send them out so will have no means of tracking them) make sure it is done by registered trackable delivery and call Orange CS. (call to Business dept - 345 from another Orange phone if you someone who has one, or 07973100345)

 

just like to give u some update on this

 

wrote to orange explaining our situation,, no reply as yet,,, but we had a call from the debt collecting agency who are saying that we now owe them £4.000 my husband went beserk,, why that much he said that if we pay them the 600 we owe they will reconnect him,,,, to what we do not have an account with them he said we do and that were are in contract so confusing,,,, he has been in touch with ofcom who were good they gave him a number to speak to some one high up in orange who is looking in to this, and then if we have no joy on this they say they can offer us legal advice, might cost us[we will have to wait and see the charges] but certainly dont want debt collecters after us for no service.. and certainly dont want to pay orange for nothing

 

also the person that phoned us from the collection agency said that orange would take no notice of my letter? is this right surely they must acknowledge it in some way

 

 

keep you informed

 

many thanks

 

jue

 

 

 

 

Frontline CSR's come across this alot and will be able to deal with it and help. Collections dept can only deal with trying to get outstanding amounts, they dont have the facility to check accounts/dealers ect. Also ask for Dealer feedback to be carried out, explaining everything as you have above. this will then be entered on to the account notes and will be able to be seen by the relevant depts.

In the meantime you will be able to tell the DCA to hang on (or themselves!) for a while as it is in dispute. What should happen then is that Orange will insist the Southline cancel the connections and the billing issue will go away.

hope that helps

[juliex]

hi

 

just giving u an update,,, well we have countless phonecalls from a debt collecting company, they wanted £600+ just to reconnect..if we did not agree to that they would charge us near enough £4000+ that was for the contract.... so contacted ofcom they gave us the mumber for someone in orange.... great person sorted it out without any problems,,cant thank this person enough,, because what we have been through with this debt collecting company.. well i am just sorry for people that have to endure them...must be horrific, but it is sorted now,,, thanks for all the feedback

 

jue

[juliex]

hi

 

he also told us to rip up the sims.....done it now,,,,no problems.

 

success!!!