Mardy bailiff and CTAX LO

[lamma]

I would appreciate a copy if that is possible.

[Consumer dude]

I am still waiting a copy of a liability order but it never comes. Had been told that as much as the liability order has been issued by the court, there is no legal obligation to send one to the individual. My conclusion is that its cloud cuckoo land and its one big s.cam..

[lamma]

Who told you that ? And did they put it in writing ?

[tomtubby]

With all types of debt a bailiff cannot legally enforce the "debt" unless in possession of the relevant "legal authority". Although, this is a relatively long answer I hope that you can understand it:

 

 

With unpaid county court judgment, the claimant makes an application to the County Court and will pay a fee of £100 for the issue of a "warrant of execution".

 

With an unpaid parking charge notice , the claimant ( in this cases the local authority) makes an application to the Traffic Enforcement Centre at Northampton County Court and will pay a fee of £7 for permission to issue a "warrant of execution"

 

With an unpaid magistrates court fine, at present no fee is charged (although this is likely to change shortly) and the fines officer will issue a Distress Warrant.

 

With unpaid council tax, the claimant (in this case the local authority) makes an application to the Magistrates Court and will pay a fee of £3 for permission to issue a Liability Order.

 

The different fee charges are of course a nonsense but then I don't make the rules (I just try to change them !!)

 

As you can see, each debt type will have a "lawful authority" whether it is called a Distress Warrant, Warrant of Execution or Liability Order.

 

If the local authority cannot provide EVIDENCE of a Liability Order then I would be asking them to either close the case or alternatively, to register your complaints as a Stage Two Complaint and that if you are not satisfied with the response that you will be asking the Local Government Ombudsman to investigate.

[tomtubby]

A Liability Order is on Form A.

 

I am not too good at copying documents onto the forum so instead, I have re-typed a copy of the statutory Liability Order in relation to unpaid council tax:

 

 

 

 

Form A

 

Magistrates Court: ( xxx Magistrates Court)

 

 

Date: xxx

 

Defendant: xxx

 

Address: xxx

 

On the complaint of (name of billing authority) that the sum of (£xx) is due to the defendant to the complainant under Part 4 of the Council Tax Administration and Enforcement Regulations 1992 and is outstanding it is adjudged that the defendant is liable to pay the aggregate amount specified below, and it is ordered that the amount that that amount may be enforced in the manner mentioned in Part VI of those regulations accordingly.

 

Sum payable and outstanding: £

 

Costs of complainant: £

 

Aggregate amount in respect of which the Liability Order is made: £

 

 

 

Justice of the Peace

 

(or by order of the Court Clerk of the Court)

[brassnecked]

The council will saaver a Liability Order exists, because they say so, and as they are the council insist they need no proof, as they are the council.

[Consumer dude]

Just ignore em..

[fwog]

Just ignore em..

I would do, but as you know, they have a tendency of pressing the 'release the hounds' button all too soon, and after the last debacle (with an all too zealous official door knocking the whole street) I'd rather get a letter quashing this.

No dice thus far

[fwog]

Still no correspondence.

No rescinding, no bailiffs (despite 7 day warning), no sign of compliant follow up, nada. I feel as though I have 'The Sword of Damocles' hanging over my head with an 'attachment to earnings' order appearing out of an over zealous clerks VDU out of the blue just as I'm paying for Xmas prezzies

[fwog]

Just had another 7 day committal letter. Same as the original in the first post. After all this, still being harangued. Just in time for Christmas too, smacks of harassment much? :-x

[tomtubby]

I would strongly urge you to take this matter to the Local Government Ombudsman to resolve.

[fwog]

What would be the best route TT? As a complaint ? Im a little nervous as I wouldn't want to be left hanging high and dry if it doesnt work out.

 

The bit on the link above doesn't fill me with confidence:

 

For the most part, do not bother.

The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency

[ploddertom]

Just had another 7 day committal letter. Same as the original in the first post. After all this, still being harangued. Just in time for Christmas too, smacks of harassment much? :-x

 

Is the letter coming from Bailiffs or Council?

[Coughdrop]

I agree with TT, The LGO has to be the way to go with this. The problem is Local Authorities have been told there is too much owing in outstanding fines (it is an absolutely massive amount of money - not all your Council Tax I hope!) and so they are trawling back to meet targets for collecting unpaid fines. I know you won't see it like this, but in a way they're having their hand forced as well.

[fwog]

Is the letter coming from Bailiffs or Council?

Hi PT,

Same as the original, from the council . Their zombie like pursuance of this is scary

Theyve already acknowledged they have no evidence for the debt. I feel as though they're just not listening and are just doing this for fun.

[ploddertom]

Sounds as if their computer is in auto respond, I doubt it has anything to do with human interference.

[ploddertom]

 

With unpaid council tax, the claimant (in this case the local authority) makes an application to the Magistrates Court and will pay a fee of £3 for permission to issue a Liability Order.

 

If the local authority cannot provide EVIDENCE of a Liability Order then I would be asking them to either close the case or alternatively, to register your complaints as a Stage Two Complaint and that if you are not satisfied with the response that you will be asking the Local Government Ombudsman to investigate.

 

Did you do this?

[fwog]

Did you do this?

I've asked for it to be registered as a complaint. This was acknowledged in a telephone conversation,but not in writing. That was over 3 months ago. I've hadva SAR come back, but other tan that, nada. I would have thought once the original '7 day letter' was issued,this would countermand any further requests as the 7 days would have elapsed. The council should surely check their own paper trail as a claim for undue distress and harrasment could be on the cards ?

[Coughdrop]

You need to do it in writing asap. Don't phone your complaint, email and follow with a hard copy recorded delivery. They can't say they haven't had it then.

 

Councils are 'conveniently' losing complaints in the system at present if it suits them to do so. I've got one in with an ombudsman I didn't know existed having sent it no fewer than 5 times and been ignored every time ..... AND that was in writing!

[mikeymack2002]

Have you got any update yet?

[fwog]

You need to do it in writing asap. Don't phone your complaint, email and follow with a hard copy recorded delivery. They can't say they haven't had it then.

 

Councils are 'conveniently' losing complaints in the system at present if it suits them to do so. I've got one in with an ombudsman I didn't know existed having sent it no fewer than 5 times and been ignored every time ..... AND that was in writing!

 

wow! We are really getting value for money with the efficiency levels these departments run at. I'll make a letter up. Also refute the bill too. I did put this in the letter originally, but nothing has been done yet, only a telephone acknowledgement. Could I go directly to the ombudsman so there can be no interjection by the council?

[Coughdrop]

wow! We are really getting value for money with the efficiency levels these departments run at. I'll make a letter up. Also refute the bill too. I did put this in the letter originally, but nothing has been done yet, only a telephone acknowledgement. Could I go directly to the ombudsman so there can be no interjection by the council?

 

I'm not 100% sure whether or not you can go directly to the Ombudsman, as I said, I didn't know there was one for councils. Their website is http://www.ombudsman.org.uk/improving-public-service . I'm not in England, so the address I used was different.

 

Nothing better to make you cynical is there!

[fwog]

I'm not 100% sure whether or not you can go directly to the Ombudsman, as I said, I didn't know there was one for councils. Their website is http://www.ombudsman.org.uk/improving-public-service . I'm not in England, so the address I used was different.

 

Nothing better to make you cynical is there!

 

Ive found you can 'resolve with the council first' which means it will be round filed. I'll establish the progress of said complaint, as it has been several months now, and if it is binned/in stasus/being dealt with I'll take it up directly.