OH HSBC credit card debt

[DCA-KING]

I just sign mine now with a squigle if it turns up on your agreement then write to them and state that is my computer generated signuture the laws doesnt state that i have to hand sign it and tell them this will now be passed on as fraud

Regards DK

[airtomoreira]

As I understand it, the reason why it is not a good idea to sign a CCA letter (or any other letter) to a DCA is in case they try to use that signature to fraudulently create a CCA agreement that appears to be genuine, because it bears your signature.

 

Is it worth giving a DCA some rope to hang themselves with, by getting someone else to sign the letter in your name. Then, if an agreement miraculously appears, with this signature on, you can prove that they have acted fraudulently, and they would presumably be deep in the brown stuff. Only possible problem I can see is that if I have knowongly agreed to let someone else sign the letter to the DCA in my name, have I also acted fraudulently? Any suggestions?

[DCA-KING]

Do like i said do a computer generated one that way you cannot get done for fraud. Has it is my signuture on all out going letters i send and i always use this do to todays incraese in fraud courts will also see it that way

only time i use my pen to sign is a chq

Regards DK

PS knowhere in law does it state you have to use a pen

all the DCA letters a standard PC Signed

[Muffintop]

Rory, I was under the impression that if the company in my case M n S does not give me a valid cca I would then 1. stop making any payments, which would make them start to send me threatening letters and to get the whole debt written off I would have to take it to court stage as in the unfair bank charges? is that incorrect?? skeggsy

[Muffintop]

As I understand it, the reason why it is not a good idea to sign a CCA letter (or any other letter) to a DCA is in case they try to use that signature to fraudulently create a CCA agreement that appears to be genuine, because it bears your signature.

 

Is it worth giving a DCA some rope to hang themselves with, by getting someone else to sign the letter in your name. Then, if an agreement miraculously appears, with this signature on, you can prove that they have acted fraudulently, and they would presumably be deep in the brown stuff. Only possible problem I can see is that if I have knowongly agreed to let someone else sign the letter to the DCA in my name, have I also acted fraudulently? Any suggestions?

 

If a company decides to fraudulently impose your signature and you have provided a false signature by getting someone else to sign it, this would contaminate any criminal offences of deception in court and perhaps weaken or discredit the case, I would suggest just acting whiter than white and if they want to hang themselves they will get caught out, expecially if you do what is recommended on this thread about how to provide a valid signature.. skeggsy

[creditcardmug]

If you really want to sign it draw a couple of wavy lines, then sign over them, take a photocopy and keep it for proof, if that sig then appears on any other document you can prove its fraudulent.

[rory32]

and to get the whole debt written off I would have to take it to court stage as in the unfair bank charges? is that incorrect??

I've answered on your thread skeggsy.

[mak71]

Does anyone have a link please for one of these computer generated signature sites that is easy to use,

Thanks

Mak

[rory32]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/110578-digital-signature-guide.html

[mak71]

Thanks,

Mak

[benjibutton]

Hi

Just had a response from HSBC regarding CCA request Credit card debt 10k.

They have sent back ,within time limit which expires on 4/12/08, the following:

1,Photocopy of Midland Access/Visa T & C with MASS handwritten on front cover

2.Photocopy of HSBC booklet Important changes to your credit card agreement with section 8 Variations- highlighted

3. Credit Card Agreement Terms booklet

4.Photocopy of agreement signature form ( blank)

Plus yet again, they have returned our £1.00 postal order.

Nowhere have they produced an original document or signature.

Questions are -

What action next?

Do we have to wait for 4/12 deadline?

Are we winning?

ps Original credit limit was £350.00 then on resign to gold card was £3000.00

Thanks guys Do appreciate your help

[creditcardmug]

Send them this,

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

 

 

Your ref: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Yours faithfully

__________________

[benjibutton]

bump

[benjibutton]

Thank you for the letter advice creditcardmug. Very strange they keep returning the £1.00 postal order. Any thoughts from anyone? Is this a way of avoiding commitment to the default?

[airtomoreira]

There will be others on here in a better position to confirm this, but but IMO they cant avoid the commitment by sending you your PO back, no way! Looks to me more like a case of they can't / won't be able to find the original. What they do with your pound is up to them, but they have no choice in the matter of letting you have the info you've requested....or face the consequences of dealing with someone who knows their rights

[reggiestar]

what is a cca request

[fiftypence]

Thank you for the letter advice creditcardmug. Very strange they keep returning the £1.00 postal order. Any thoughts from anyone? Is this a way of avoiding commitment to the default?

 

That's a smoke screen to give you the (wrong) impression that somehow they are not obliged to give you this information or to make you believe that if you re-sent them the pound the 12+2 time limit would start again. More fool them if they don't want your pound.

[reggiestar]

benjibiutton i have sent a cca request for my partner what happens next sorry to bother you but we are very worried , they keep calling her work and harrassing her for the full amount which we cannot afford thanks in advance

[fiftypence]

benjibiutton i have sent a cca request for my partner what happens next sorry to bother you but we are very worried , they keep calling her work and harrassing her for the full amount which we cannot afford thanks in advance

 

No matter where she receives the phone call she should just say she wants all communication in writing only and hang up. There is a letter in the templates section requesting no further phone calls and all correspondence to be in writing only.

 

If you have sent the CCA just sit back and wait now. Once they have responded then come back here for advice.

[reggiestar]

so grateful many thanks

[reggiestar]

dont have a new thread buttons/link on my page is it because im new ?

[creditcardmug]

dont have a new thread buttons/link on my page is it because im new ?

 

Go to the forum you want your thread in, (general debt or debt collection industry) then click on the new thread button near the top.

 

I think its because you have to make 5 posts first, but you have done that many now, so should work.

[benjibutton]

Happy New year all

Well HSBC couldn't provide CCA -time ran out before Xmas, but they have sent same letter twice now saying we are not responding and will pass to DCA if nothing heard within 7 days, but can make them an offer. Debt 10k.We have sent dispute letter recorded delivery, responded every time, recorded and kept copies. The only contact we are refusing is by phone, and we are paying £5 per month. As debt appears unenforcable would they accept 2K ( all we can afford) or should we just ignore and wait for court etc?

 

Many Thanks

Benjibutton

[silverfox1961]

hi,

As they've failed in your request to provide the CCA and you've sent the A/C in dispute letter they shouldn't be selling the debt on to anyone (but when has that ever stopped them )

 

 

Any DCA that contacts you should easily be sent packing with the bemused letter but we'll deal with that should it happen.

Have you sent the telephone harassment letter?

As the debt is unenforcable (at the moment) you are well within your rights to stop paying them.

If they decide to take you to court and they don't provide the CCA then it's a complete defence.

They'd be silly to do that at the moment.

I would advise you not to speak to them on the phone unless you can record the conversation.

 

fox

[benjibutton]

Hi Silverfox

Thank you, we advised no phone contact in first letter, so will keep you informed and thank you again for your help -much appreciated

Benjibutton