Eversheds County Court Paperwork / **SUCCESS**

[Viscount Stair]

Sorry to disappoint but the OFT's Online CCA Register shows that four Arrow Global companies have CCA licences and Arrow Global Limited at least has included consumer credit as one of the categories on its licence.

 

If it had already been terminated prior to the issue of the DN, then a subsequent DN is irrelevant. However, if it had not already been terminated, Arrow Global could - in theory at least - issue a DN.

[Docman]

I agree that because Arrow have a CCA licence, they could take over the account and in theory issue their own DN. I think this action raises two questions

1. What would Arrow have done if the debtor had remedied the breech ie paid the arrears? Is Arrow Global in a position to continue operating the credit account?

2. Does the Deed of Assignment between MBNA & Arrow allow for 'live' accounts (ie ones where the DN has NOT been issued by MBNA) to be assigned or can only defaulted accounts be sold on? The answer will be in the actual Deed which is not normally provided unless you can persuade the Court that Arrow should disclose. Try getting the Court to order disclosure and see what Arrow's reaction is!

[Viscount Stair]

I don't disagree with any of that - I just wanted to correct the assumption that Arrow would be unlicensed.

[citizenB]

Okey dokey.. many thanks for your thoughts on that atowzee, docman and VS.

 

OH has an MBNA account which was defaulted, terminated and assigned to Arrow Global LLC who promptly issued an undated default notice. Even the letter suggesting that MBNA had assigned the account to them was undated.. howzat for an own goal:D Fredrickson International were pestering me for repayment on behalf of their client Arrow Global. I thnk I have them sorted out though:rolleyes: I just wanted to know if Arrow could in their own right issue a DN. However, issuing one on a terminated account seems a bit stupid to me whoever issued.

[goonerhenry]

thanks for all your replies guys, although now im more confused than ever, are we saying that arrow are licensed to issue the default notice? if yes have they issued the default notice incorrectly by only giving me 14 days??, if they are licensed what is my next best course of action?, is it trying to get the court to make arrow cough the deed of assignment??

[goonerhenry]

also i still havn't had a response from arrow\eversheds regarding the cpr.14 request, now yes they have sent me the default notice and signed agreement but that was only because its part of their disclosure list, i still havn't had the deed of assigmnment which was also requested, am i best to use the fact that they havent responded to the cpr.14 as a way of getting the deed of assignment?

[citizenB]

thanks for all your replies guys, although now im more confused than ever, are we saying that arrow are licensed to issue the default notice? if yes have they issued the default notice incorrectly by only giving me 14 days??, if they are licensed what is my next best course of action?, is it trying to get the court to make arrow cough the deed of assignment??

 

Whether they are able to or not. If they havent allowed sufficent time for you to remedy then it is invalid. What other errors are there on there. Is it formatted properly, have they got the correct sum (there should be no charges included).

 

Apart from which, if the account had been terminated before it was assigned to them.. they werent in a position to issue a default anyway, were they ?

 

I think you need the assistance of atowzee, VS and Docman for this one.

[goonerhenry]

cheers citezenb touch wood the others will have a look in a bit

[goonerhenry]

can someone take a quick look and see where im best to go from here, do i need to draft up a letter to the courts asking for the deed of assignment to be released or should this go direct to to eversheds/arrow? also can anyone see any other obvious errors they have made, for instance as mbna didnt default the account, can arrow default without giving me the chance to repay, especially seeing as when i was given a chance i haven't missed a payment??

[goonerhenry]

just stumpled across this which personally i feel anyone thats considering defending a claim should read:

 

Consumer Credit Litigation: Basic Guide - Consumer Wiki

 

like everyone else in the same position i am cacking it if it comes to a court case, but reading the article has really calmed me down and got me focused on what needs to be done and touch wood with the help of some fantastic people on here i should be able to at least push arrow all the way and as its says in the article the worst thats going to happen is that i get a ccj and have to pay the money back, something that i would have had at the very start if i had decided not to defend, at least this way you get to learn something and actually make these idiots earn the money they are trying to take from you!!

[citizenB]

I think it is Arrow's modus operandi to include a Default notice in with the letter advising assignment.

 

But in this instance you say, they have sent the Default notice separately. It doesnt give you the requireded 14 days. I would think yes, you definitely need to know if they are legally able to issue the Default and a letter either from MBNA advising this assignment was going to happen or from Arrow that it had might be nice. After all, how are you to know otherwise.

 

Again, in any case, I dont see how anyone can issue a Default notice on a terminated account. That is what I cant get to grips with.

[goonerhenry]

cheers citezenb, i definatly didint get a letter saying arrow had taken over the account, so im just drafting a letter to both eversheds and the court to see if i can get them to release a copy of the deed of assignment, i will post them up before sending just to make sure they sound ok

[citizenB]

as always when you need it my scanner has packed in, so im just going to jot down the important bits from the letter, let me know if there is anything else to look out for:

 

the judge has considered both parties statements and has allocated it to the fast track, the trial is set for the 17th of august, standard disclosue by list by the 10/3, request for copy or inspection of documnts by the 17/3.

wittness statements to be served by both parties to each other by 21/4, skeleton arguments at least 3 days before the hearing.

pre trial check list by 24/6.

 

there is a pre trial check list for me to complete, any help would be appreciated, if you get 5 mins surfaceagent have a quick butchers and see what you think, let me know if you need any more info from the letters as i have just listed the headlines.

 

 

I just brought the above down so I could keep a check on the timeline. SOme questions are general questions in the hope you receive answers from other CAGers.

 

Right, you have sent off a holding defence, courtesy of x20. Have you requested inspection of the NOA which was, I think part of their disclosure list. You best check that. If it was then they must let you have sight of it, but you are going to have to ask to see it before the 17th March according to the above. That will prove or disprove Arrow's rights in this lot.

 

Agreement, I cant see any link between the two documents they have sent you, so you are going to have ask for some clarification on that point. I am not sure how you go about that. I will try and track down someone on that point.

 

Right, MBNA had Defaulted and terminated the account before it was assigned/sold/passed on to Arrow. It would be interesting to see a copy of the MBNA default notice, if that was also full of holes could be interesting.

 

Arrow's Default notice definitely was invalid. Incorrect time allowed for remedy. I am also puzzled, they didnt advise the clause you had breached. Just that you had breached and needed to remedy. Dont they have to specify the clause breached.

 

I think yes, you do need to perhaps write to the court/eversheds re the notice of assignment. See my first point made above.

 

Ah, I have just reread your earlier post. Are you saying that MBNA didnt default and terminate the account before Arrow got involved and it was just Arrow that did that.

[goonerhenry]

as far as im aware MBNA didnt default the account, i had allot of letters stating i was behind on payments and allot of nasty phone calls demanding money, but never a default, i then rec'd a default from arrow and then eversheds got involved at which point i agreed a payment plan of £20 per month, this was increased to £25 when asked, then out of the blue i rec'd a phone from eversheds saying that if i either ddint increase payments to around £200 per month or pay the balance in full then they would take me to court, i expalined to them that i couldnt and after offering them amounts of around £50 which i could barely afford they took me to court, i have also rightly or wrongly continued paying the £25 since then and no payment has ever been missed, find below the draft letters for eversheds and the court to try and get the NOA:

 

 

draft letter to eversheds:

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

With regards to the above case, I notice from your disclosure list that the deed of assignment between MBNA and Arrow Global has not been included in the available documents, as I was not informed at the time that Arrow Global had taken over the account and Arrows particulars of this claim stated that they have a vested interest in the monies owed, this document is needed to prove the validity of Arrows claim to any monies.

A CPR.14 request which was sent to yourselves on the 30th September 2008 has also been ignored, this request legally has to be responded to within 7 days, the request was for a copy of the following documents

1. The agreement

2.The assignment

3.The default notice

As copies of the agreement and default notice have been supplied as part of the disclosure list, I would appreciate it if you could disclose copies of the deed of assignment, again this document is vital to this case as without it Arrow have no rights to claim any monies, I have also sent a request to courts asking for this information to be released, I look forward to your swift response.

 

draft letter to the court:

 

 

In regards to the above case, a CPR 31.14 request was made to the claimant on the 30th September 2008, this request was for vital information namely the original agreement, deed of assignment and the default notice,, the claimant has ignored this request and although I have received a copy of the signed agreement and default notice from the disclosure list, I am still awaiting a copy of the deed of assignment, this document is vital to the case as it is the basis of the claimants original particulars and it is required by myself to check the validity of the claimants claim to any monies owed. I therefore would ask the court to request that the claimant makes this information available so that I’m able to proceed with my defence of this case.

 

 

if someone could cast their eye over these and suggest any improvemnts i would be very grateful.[/font]

[goonerhenry]

having read through the disclosure list again it does say that they are disclsoing the NOA, although its item number 6 and its says default notice/notice of assignment, so are they saying that they are the same document?? i have read the default notice and the opening line is "we refer to the above agreement which has been assigned to us" is that one line enough to be counted as a DOA, also can they combine the two and it still be legal??

[citizenB]

as far as im aware MBNA didnt default the account, i had allot of letters stating i was behind on payments and allot of nasty phone calls demanding money, but never a default, i then rec'd a default from arrow and then eversheds got involved at which point i agreed a payment plan of £20 per month, this was increased to £25 when asked, then out of the blue i rec'd a phone from eversheds saying that if i either ddint increase payments to around £200 per month or pay the balance in full then they would take me to court, i expalined to them that i couldnt and after offering them amounts of around £50 which i could barely afford they took me to court, i have also rightly or wrongly continued paying the £25 since then and no payment has ever been missed, find below the draft letters for eversheds and the court to try and get the NOA:

 

 

draft letter to eversheds:

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

With regards to the above case, I notice from your disclosure list that the deed of assignment between MBNA and Arrow Global has not been included in the available documents, as I was not informed at the time that Arrow Global had taken over the account and Arrows particulars of this claim stated that they have a vested interest in the monies owed, this document is needed to prove the validity of Arrows claim to any monies.

A CPR.14 request which was sent to yourselves on the 30th September 2008 has also been ignored, this request legally has to be responded to within 7 days, the request was for a copy of the following documents

1. The agreement

2.The assignment

3.The default notice

As copies of the alleged agreement and default notice have been supplied as part of the disclosure list, I would appreciate it if you could disclose copies of the deed of assignment, again this document is vital to this case as without it Arrow have no rights to claim any monies, I have also sent a request to courts asking for this information to be released, I look forward to your swift response.

 

draft letter to the court:

 

 

In regards to the above case, a CPR 31.14 request was made to the claimant on the 30th September 2008, this request was for vital information namely the original agreement, deed of assignment and the default notice,, the claimant has ignored this request and although I have received a copy of the signed agreement and default notice from the disclosure list, I am still awaiting a copy of the deed of assignment, this document is vital to the case as it is the basis of the claimants original particulars and it is required by myself to check the validity of the claimants claim to any monies owed. I therefore would ask the court to request that the claimant makes this information available so that I’m able to proceed with my defence of this case.

 

 

if someone could cast their eye over these and suggest any improvemnts i would be very grateful.[/font]

 

 

Hmm, I wouldnt say you have received a copy of the agreement per se. I would say alleged or puported. We dont actually know if those 2 documents are in fact one there is no link at this stage.

 

The letter to the court I have messed around with a bit. Perhaps you could invite some other comments as well.

 

Dear Court,

 

Case reference

Me v them

 

 

In respect of the above. On the 3oth of December, under CPR 31:14 , I requested the following documents from the claimants:

 

A copy of the agreement which underpins their claim and which wasnt provided with the initial claim form.

The default Notice

Notice of Assignment

 

The request above has to date, been ignored and whilst I have obtained a copy of the Default notice and alleged agreement which formed part of the claimants disclosure list . I am still awaiting a copy of the Deed/Notice of Assignment which wasnt part of that list.

 

This document is vital to the case as it is the basis of the claimants original particulars and it is required by myself to check the validity of the claimants claim to any monies owed. I would therefore ask the court to request that the claimant makes this information available so that I’m able to proceed with my defence of this case.

 

Yours faithfully,

[goonerhenry]

its a strange one as i think they are trying to say that they are the same document, not sure if that one line constitues a NOA or not, surely arrow should have given me some time to try and arrange a repayment plan before defaulting or it this pretty standard parctice, also i have never had and direct dealings with arrow its always been through eversheds, again is that normal??

[goonerhenry]

can someone take a look at this as im a little unsure of my next move, does the one line in the DN constitute a NOA as well or do i need to request this as i only have til the 17th to request that document, or would asking them for clarification on the matter be a better way of going, any help would be appreciated

[caro]

Why don't you just ask for everything they have on the disclosure list. If there's something missing from the disclosure list, then make sure you make that point at a hearing, especially if it's something crucial to your defence. They can't disclose what they don't have or didn't issue.

 

Glad reading up is giving you confidence for going to court. Keep up the good work.

[goonerhenry]

to be honest they have already sent me everything on their disclosure list, the only confusion is with the DN/NOA, just wanted someone to have a look at the DN and see if that constitutes a NOA as well

[caro]

Does this help at all? http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/116610-notice-assignment.html#post1171714

[goonerhenry]

thanks for that caro, from what i can tell i personally dont think they have put enough in the DN to make it legally allowed to be a NOA as well, i mean one line saying my debt has been allocated to them surely doesnt answer all the points that legally it must have according to the link you gave me, i would appreciate anyone else's comments on this, in the mean time im going to ask them for the NOA, if they come back with the DN again then again i would appreciate anyones comments on weither this helps my case as in theory they havn't given me a legally correct NOA

[caro]

No NOA, no enforceable debt, case thrown out, you claim wasted costs. Have you posted the agreement and the DN somewhere on your thread so they can be looked at? If so, can you please put a link to them, or put post numbers. I'm rubbish on this stuff, but others may be able to advise.

[goonerhenry]

cheers cairo, see attached default notice & agreement, as i said i think arrow/eversheds are trying to say the DN & the NOA are the same document, if someone could have a look and let me know if that is the case then that would be great, in the mean time i will ask them for a copy of the NOA and see what they come back with.

CA.pdf

DN.pdf

[caro]

Ok, even I can see that neither of those are any good. I believe the NOA needs to come from MBNA as anyone can SAY they've been assigned a debt. I could write and tell you I've been assigned it, but it wouldn't make it a fact.

 

As for the credit agreement - it isn't one as far as I can see. Where's the interest rate for starters?

 

Is there definitely nothing else?

 

Did you ever send a CCA request to MBNA for the original agreement, because if they can't come up with that, they couldn't assign it to anyone.