CCA/true copy dispute with Haliprats

[underdog13]

Did they respond to your SAR? Surely they can't ignore that?

[findingthecheese]

Hi underdog13!

 

In response to my SAR they sent copies of credit card statements only.

 

However, I do admit that my original SAR was written before I'd really grasped what I was doing and I might not have been explicit enough in my

request.

 

I realised this and made it clear that statements alone would not be sufficient and that I also wanted a copy of my original agreement, transcripts of calls, any other documentation that might be relevant.

 

Hfx and Blair Oliver have ignored these letters! Hfx also said that they only had to provide statements for the last 6 years and there was no legal obligation to provide any further statements or the original, signed agreement.

 

I've written to Blair Oliver to request all documentation under the Civil Procedure Rules (using the template from this site). I'm hoping that they are bluffing about their intention to start court proceedings....!!!

 

ftc.

[findingthecheese]

do you think it's worth re-sending a SAR letter (using the excellent CAG template) to Blair Oliver with another postal order for £10?

 

ftc.

[underdog13]

Hi Ftc,

funny how they always ignore the letters they don't like isn't it? They always seem to get 'lost' - well that's what happens when you file them in the bin.

 

I hope for your sake they are bluffing about court proceedings (I'm sure you could do without the hassle); frankly if they don't have any copy at all of the signed agreement, how can they commence proceedings? Oh how their single brain cell must get lonely:) Reading a lot of the other threads on here, it seems they do still go to court sometimes, then realise they can't supply the necessary paperwork and apply for stay after stay:mad:

 

Halifax came up with a signed application form for me from 2000; but it doesn't have the prescribed terms on the signature page:D. No doubt my case will follow the same track as yours in due course. Thing is, if they could supply my agreement after 8 years, why can't they supply your statements for more than 6 years?

 

Best of luck with everything; will keep following your thread.

[findingthecheese]

Thanks underdog13!

 

funny indeed!

 

Just like how they manage to send out their letters dated weeks before you actually receive them, or how they claim to be unable to contact you despite you having sent them several letters....I could go on!

 

I'm really trying to stand my ground, but I am worried about being taken to court - it does seem like the creditors are beginning to find some 'bravado' from somewhere. I'm hoping that the fact that I've kept all letters and proof of postage will work in my favour if they do go to court and by some miracle provide a compliant agreement.

 

Let's hope that Hfx realise that they're onto a 'loser' with you, I'm sure they've got their hands full (from what I read on the CAG site)!!!

 

Hfx seem to do what Hfx want to do, but they've really peed me off - you just can't be reasonable with some of these 't"£ts! Had they been reasonable I would never have found CAG and would never have known about CCAs, SARs, DCAs - I think you get my drift!

 

I'll keep my fingers crossed that you don't have to go down the route that I'm currently on!

 

Well they will no doubt have received my latest letter by the end of this week. Yet another letter for them to ignore/file in their in-bin.

 

I'll post the next thrilling instalment once Hfx/Blair Oliver have put together their next work of fiction...

 

ftc.

[lotsofdebt]

Thanks underdog13!

 

I'm really trying to stand my ground, but I am worried about being taken to court - it does seem like the creditors are beginning to find some 'bravado' from somewhere. I'm hoping that the fact that I've kept all letters and proof of postage will work in my favour if they do go to court and by some miracle provide a compliant agreement.

 

ftc.

 

Hi, just found this thread whilst looking for more ammunition to fire at my OC regarding their failure to provide a CCA - seems like everyone gets the same run around

 

Stand your ground. Banks and DCA's are all the same - they use intimidation and scare tactics to get you to pay. The fact of the matter is unless the agreement was entered into post April 2007, they do need a signed agreement. Without a doubt, if they possessed a copy of your CCA they'd be waiving it around with a very smug look of victory on their faces.

 

As far as I'm aware, under a SAR request, you are entitled to an actual copy - signature and all. Unfortunately they can bluff their way out of it with a S77/78 request and send you any old tosh, but not when it comes to the Data Protection Act. Sounds like a case for the info Commissioner.

 

You've made the request - complain by all means, but not to the DCA or the OC - make it to the FOS. Ignore them and don't worry too much about them taking you to court. That little defence form is pretty neat - it lets you write in big letters - HAVE FAILED TO COMPLY WITH CCA REQUEST

[findingthecheese]

Thanks lotsofdebt!

 

Think I'm going to write to the FOS (well, in for a penny, in for a few thousand pounds....).

 

Do you happen to know if there is a template letter? I keep having to log out (I'm at work!). I want to avoid making any mistakes and would hate to miss out any pertinent points!

 

I've had to start up a dedicated file for these 'jokers' - there's a forest somewhere suffering because of them...

 

ftc.

[underdog13]

Hi Lotsofdebt -That's reassuring:)

 

I do however understand your fears Ftc, I'm not too keen to go to court either. What worries me is this tripe they keep spouting about after a default notice is issued the agreement is terminated so true copies of the agreement don't matter!!!! I think that's cobblers, but we have to put the point of law across well in case the judge doesn't know what he's doing. Sheesh, with all the money they pay the judges you'd think they could at least be bothered to learn the laws they're ruling on:mad:. Apparently there are some new satutes due to apply in April; I'm hoping to delay until then. Details were on another thread - when I find them I will post them.

[underdog13]

Here we go hope this works; originally posted by CitizenB - hope you don't mind me copying and pasting, Citb:)

 

I found this article in the Mail on Sunday. I did check out their website but couldnt find a link so I hope it was alright to scan it in

 

It makes for interesting reading I think x

 

 

[underdog13]

Oh, and the Thread is Debtors to have their borrowing written off - article, by Citizen B; just in case you want to read the whole thread. Roll on April - the DROs sound interesting:)

[findingthecheese]

Thanks underdog13!

 

I'm going to print-off and read on the train home! I'm totally with you re. a court appearance - I accompanied a friend once and the judge hadn't even bothered to familiarise himself with the main facts of the case! It appeared that he'd only just opened the file as we entered the room... I remembered thinking at the time that I'd rather avoid at all costs! That was before I found CAG and some backbone !

 

I know that if it comes to court, I'm going to have to basically spell out my defence to avoid the judge totally missing the point and siding with the creditor/dca! I also have to hope that the judge listens and then understands the legal points being made...it's such a risk, and a frightening prospect...

 

ftc.

 

Do you think I should re-send a SAR to Blair Oliver? My first attempt was poorly written (I know this now!!!) and I don't want to give them any 'wriggle' room if they take the case to court. Or do you think I'm covered by the civil procedures letter???

 

I'm with you and hoping to hold off any further action until next year. Let me enjoy Christmas at least!

[underdog13]

Er, you've got me their FTC, not sure about what you should do re SAR and civil procedures - I'm sure someone will be along soon who's more knowledgeable than me (wouldn't be difficult;), I'm still a newbie).

 

Hope you do enjoy Christmas, Ftc. I would imagine there's a bit of a back log in the courts with so many creds seeking charging orders, etc - fingers crossed. Best of luck to you:)

[2Grumpy]

In response to a SAR, they should send everything that they have about you that is contained in a "relevant filing system". That includes electronic, email, fiche etc. You don't have to say what you are looking for - they should send the lot.

 

As far as the

CCA / threats are concerned, you could call their bluff, something like:

 

If you are considering legal action, then as part of any proceedings, you would have to supply me with copies of all of the documents that you would rely on in your action. If you are prepared to supply a copy of my original signed credit agreement including my signature at this stage then any legal action may be avoided. Please note that this is a genuine attempt on my part to resolve this matter without the need to involve the courts. If you decline this opportunity then I will draw the court's attention to this letter.

 

That might make them stop long enough to draw breath and think

[findingthecheese]

Thanks 2Grumpy!

 

Will follow your advice and call their bluff - after all, they seem more than happy to call mine...

 

I'll keep my fingers crossed and let you all know the outcome/fallout...!

 

ftc.

[tosh1]

subbing

[findingthecheese]

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!

 

Apologies for the radio silence. Hope everyone is feeling refreshed and ready to take on the usual suspects in 2009!!!

 

Well Blair Oliver did not respond to my letter (sent to them on 11.11.08) and just as I started to exhale - guess what dropped on my mat.... You got it, a very colourful tome from our friends Westcot Credit Services! Liberal use of red ink and red highlighting gave their letter a warming glow... Good to see that they're being consistent - the letter was dated 8th January but did not actually arrive until the 16th!!!

 

So, Blair Oliver did not even acknowledge my request for a true copy of my CCA, they also ignored my subject access request. Westcot have issued the same threats of court action, seizure of my humble possessions, court costs, charging order and a personal visit by their debt collectors. Don't I feel special!!!

 

I feel strangely calm and detached (should I be worried?). Anyway, my next move will be to write to Westcot denying any liability asking them to contact me by letter only, revoking any licence for their agents to visit my home and insisting on the documents requested in my original subject access request letters to Halifax and Blair Oliver.

 

Westcot have given me until the 22nd to contact them, my letter will be winging its way to them by recorded delivery tomorrow.

 

Am I missing anything out??? All suggestions welcome.

 

Ding, ding - Round 3!

 

ftc

[underdog13]

Hi ftc,

looks like BOS have got cold feet and passed the parcel to westcot - now what does that imply?

[findingthecheese]

Hi underdog13!

 

How are things?

 

Hmmm! Surely BOS have merely 'escalated' their process by passing my account onto Westcot??? Yeah right!!! If I were a more 'gullible' individual I'd have been on Valium by now, whilst selling my blood to meet my monthly payments! Unfortunately for BOS and Westcott I have found CAG, better than any prescription drug!!!

 

Just finished typing up my letter to Westcott (well, really just removed BOS and inserted Westcot in my 'bemused' letter) - don't want to waste too much time on these 'twerps' - they'll only ignore it after all!

 

Might add a little red ink of my own - well, Wescot seem to be fond of that colour so maybe it'll make them actually read the contents...

 

ftc.

[underdog13]

Lol, yep, use plenty of red ink in your letter, FTC - they seem to like it so much:p

 

Things are a bit static at the moment for me; expecting an escalation any time soon!

 

Wishing you the best of luck in your endeavours:)

[findingthecheese]

Thanks underdog13!

 

Nothing wrong with a bit of 'static' allows you to save power for that 'jolt' you'll hit them with later!

 

ftc.

[underdog13]

Couldn't agree more, ftc:) A nice big thunderbolt right up their:eek:, lol.

[findingthecheese]

Another update!

 

"So soon?" I hear you cry... well yep! Westcot have decided to up the ante and send me a 'telemessage' - claiming that they've tried to contact me without success (blatantly untrue as I've only just received their first letter!) and that I need to urgently contact them (by phone, of course) to discuss paying back the full amount of the debt (the same debt that they've failed to provide a CCA for!).

 

....as I reached for the phone with a shaking hand, tears in my eyes and fear in my heart.....AND IF YOU BELIEVE THAT!!!

 

They've got a long wait - and I hope they hold their breaths

 

Hope they can read!

[findingthecheese]

Hi everyone!

 

Well my new 'pals' Westcot have responded to my letter!

 

"Thank you for your recent correspondence regarding the above account.

Whilst we acknowledge the contents of your letter, to enable ourselves to investigate your query further, we request that you provide full details in writing in order that we can liaise with our client.

We look forward to receiving the above information by return, along with payment to cover part of the balance which is not in dispute."

 

Can anyone provide advice on how or if I should respond? I've written numerous letters to both Halifax and Blair Oliver - shouldn't they provide Westcot with copies if they have handed over my account???

 

I'm also slightly perplexed by the last line of the letter - what payment? The entire debt is in dispute and at no time did I mention that I was willing to pay "part of the balance".

 

Do I send copies of letters already sent to Hfx and BOS or do I need to re-submit my SAR which still hasn't been fully complied with (will I need to pay another £10 fee?)???

 

Has anyone received a similar letter from Westcot?

 

All advice welcomed.

 

Thank you to everyone in advance.

 

ftc.

[findingthecheese]

Hi everyone!

 

Just a quick update (whilst I'm on my lunch break).

 

Westcot decided that they couldn't be bothered to coverse with me anymore!

 

I now have new 'friends' at iQor who have sent me two 'welcoming' letters in the space of a couple of days! Don't I feel special..... The second of which has now threatened court action and given me two days within which to pay the entire outstanding debt (I wonder if they'd mind holding their breaths whilst I contact my personal banker at Coutts....).

 

Sooo it's a 'bemused' letter sent by recorded delivery.

 

I'll let you know the outcome.

 

Have a good day!

 

ftc.

[underdog13]

Hello Ftc,

 

I had a letter from iQor, too - I think HBOS pick a DCA name out of a hat once a month and send all their troublesome accounts over to them;)