Paul & Sparkie RBS seem to have bigger fish to fry

[JonCris]

 

Two self-made millionaires were furious yesterday after Scotland's largest bank continued to delay producing crucial evidence which it claims proves it was authorized to leave them penniless.

Edmund Keane and Jimmy Jones are arguing that the Royal Bank of Scotland had no right to use their life savings to set off debts on accounts set up secretly in their names by Keane's brother, the former Celtic director and RBS bank manager Dominic Keane.

Yesterday at the Court of Session in Edinburgh the bank requested another six weeks to examine the "numerous" hidden accounts and produce documentation which it claims shows that Dominic Keane instructed it to act as it had done.advertisement

The request was agreed by Lord Angus Glennie on condition that the bank agreed to a call from the two men's lawyer for it to supply all documents relating to instructions given by Dominic Keane for the opening of and making of debit entries for the first two years of all the relevant accounts.

The order follows a three-and-a-half year battle by the two men who are suing RBS over claims that it lost their £10m fortune and left them several million pounds in debt.

Both of them had agreed to grant power of attorney to Dominic Keane in 1990 when they moved overseas after selling off their carpet empire Colonel Gees.

But neither of them had any idea that all their money had gone until 2005 when a cheque for Mr Jones's sons' private school fees suddenly bounced and Edmund Keane received a letter telling him he was more than £2.5m in debt.

Yesterday's order came the day after it emerged that Dominic Keane is accused of using the concealed accounts to carry out a 13-year multi-million-pound fraud.

Michael Jones QC, lawyer for the two men, the pursuers in the case, attacked the bank during yesterday's hearing for continually failing to provide proof that the instructions existed despite repeated requests by the pair's legal team.

He said: "They RBS have had three-and-a-half years to investigate their position on this."

Later he added: "We're talking about two pursuers'...life savings."

The bank had claimed that the power of attorney agreements provided "sufficient authorisation" for it to use the men's fortunes to set off debts on the unknown accounts without telling them.

At court earlier this week RBS revealed that it had also received specific instructions from Dominic Keane, prompting Lord Glennie to rule that it must now provide proof of that for the two men.

Paul Cullen QC, acting for RBS, requested the six week time period yesterday after explaining that it would take a considerable amount of time to examine the "hundreds" of debit entries on the numerous accounts.

Quizzed by the judge he confessed that he didn't have a "complete understanding" of the "nature or detail" of all the documents or what was involved in going through them.

But he said: "Much of the information is likely to be of an entirely routine, daily nature. It is a little difficult to say what will entail getting proof."

After the hearing a source close to the men told "Three-and-a-half years after sending a letter to Edmund saying that all his money had gone and that he now owed about £2.5m, and after bouncing Jimmy's school fees cheque, the bank are still not willing to provide the information that they say shows that Dominic Keane gave them instructions to authorize these transactions.

"This was these men's life savings but the bank is still saying it would be too time-consuming to trawl through files to find evidence of instructions from Dominic Keane. Meanwhile Edmund Keane and Jimmy Jones are penniless. They are really angry."

The case will be continued at a preliminary hearing to be held in October.

[Sparkie1723]

Hi JonCris,

 

The net RBS use to catch their fish to fry hasvery small holes in it ,,,,,it is designed to catch every single unsupecting fish,,,,,,,,both Paul and I have one account...one account number......but that account hastwo "book debts" one book debt is Approximately twice the amount of the other..

 

sparkie

[paulwlton]

Nice one JC - i will bet the amount contained in my falsely created RBS "loan account" that they will not provide any documents giving power of attorney.

 

Another link: Former Celtic Director At Centre Of Lost Millions Row (from The Herald )

Edited August 23, 2008 by paulwlton

[Sparkie1723]

If the RBS can't find this power of attorney document....then they will have to face up to the fact that they have misappropriated the money as far as the fact .......they have edit it.

 

sparkie

Edited August 25, 2008 by HSBCrusher
please be careful as to what you post please

[JonCris]

Of course they could always 'reconstruct' it as appears their want

[paulwlton]

If the RBS can't find this power of attorney document....then they will have to face up to the fact that they have misappropriated the money as far as the fact .......they have edit it.

 

sparkie

 

I think Sir Fred should be stripped of his knighthood - RBS are a disgrace.

 

I'm surprised this has only been reported in Scottish media.

Edited October 12, 2008 by paulwlton

[DandD]

edit (Can I say that??!)

 

They just do whatever they like.

 

Has anybody ever seen Sir Fred? Maybe he can't type or write! Never seems to reply to anybody.....not even MP's!!!

 

D

Edited August 25, 2008 by HSBCrusher
no you cant :-)

[yourbank]

interesting thread, eh?

[JonCris]

Currently watching Dispatches & apparently Sir Fred is avoiding the press

[yourbank]

has been for two years apparently, Channel 4, Dispatches Programme. Got it on as well.

[paulwlton]

I've spoken personally to the chap in this thread and it looks like the amount RBS were claiming had been artificialy inflated by about £13k. As of yet RBS have not provided srtaements showing how this figure was reached. The judge threw the claim out when RBS failed to turn up with the judge stating "RBS want this buied".

 

Unsurprisingly his account/s were held at CMS Telford.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/135159-royal-bank-scotland-claim.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[paulwlton]

Latest from the Keane case.

 

The judge has ordered RBS to go back through several key accounts for Mr Keane and Mr Jones and provide all documentation plus explanations for all missing documents. They were supposed to have provided all the documents already and said that they had done so, but today seemed to suggest there might be more info available. They also agreed to provide the explanations requested, which they hadn't done for today.

So essentially the case continues until next month.

[Enron]

Watching this with interest.

[Sparkie1723]

Latest from the Keane case.

 

 

The judge has ordered RBS to go back through several key accounts for Mr Keane and Mr Jones and provide all documentation plus explanations for all missing documents. They were supposed to have provided all the documents already and said that they had done so, but today seemed to suggest there might be more info available. They also agreed to provide the explanations requested, which they hadn't done for today.

 

So essentially the case continues until next month.

 

Exactly what they did and are doing with me.

December 2005........We have no documents on you, Mr sparkie.

6 months later.......ICO makes them supply 3 docs ....RBS said

We haven't got any more

18 months later March 2007 produce all my personal bank statemets...... in court.

Produce my copied credit file ...in court.

Produce records of my "Router Account" .....in court.

6 months later after the court case produce copies of my long closed business account.

In Feb 2008 Tell my MP they do not have any more.

In June 2008 produce another 25 documents.

 

They still havent produced records of how 5 cheques carried out 10 transactions some 14 days apart.

Havent produced a copy or any records of an "alleged" loan agreement.

Although admitting a sum of money was taken from my personal account, say they don't know where it is. and havent offfered it me back ....its been missing for 10 years.

 

sparkie

[paulwlton]

Media update on the Keane case.

 

I can't beleive RBS would open accounts without the customers knowledge (not)

 

RBS Told To Produce Papers For Keane Accounts (from The Herald )

[JonCris]

The arrogance of RBS & their legal representatives beggars belief

[alanalana]

Paul I note sparkies post 4 was edited you may wish to do the same with your post 6 just so there is a match on the word used.

 

Just a thought but a bit late in the day.

 

aa

[paulwlton]

Paul I note sparkies post 4 was edited you may wish to do the same with your post 6 just so there is a match on the word used.

 

Just a thought but a bit late in the day.

 

aa

 

Well spotted, although i agree with him.

 

Paul

[alanalana]

Paul and Sparkie,

 

On the RBS front you may be pleased to know I have one little victory coming up and two fights still on with reference to PPI.

 

This is the thread very long but probably nowhere near Pauls thread....

 

alanalana PPI claim against RBS (looking for some help) please

 

apologies if you have already viewed:)

 

aa