PPI rejected Natwest... HELP!!!!

[karenc79]

Hi there I wonder if anyone can help me.

I have been dealing with the delightful NatWest regarding my PPI charges and they have refused to pay them back. They say they have looked at all their records and do not believe I am entitled to these refunded as sufficient information was given to me at time of purchase.

The thing is the man who sold me this insurance clearly said to me verbally that I would definitely get the loan if I took out the payment protection. I was concerned I would be rejected for the loan as my credit was bad at that point. naively I believed him as I was desperate for the loan to clear off my other debts, so I paid the £5400 PPI!! I have since cancelled the policy but I have calculated that I am due about £2500 plus interest refunded.

They have now stated that if I am not satisfied I am to take it to the ombudsman.

Does anyone have any advise? This has been going on since May!!

thanks so much in advance

[adamski]

Is it their final response?

[mcfadwmc]

i did one of these several months ago with natwest.

 

they said they wouldn't refund and gave final response so took it to FOS

 

When FOS informed natwest of registration of complaint they offered full amount plus interest without even going through FOS review of my complaint

 

 

i think they don't offer refunds unless you escalate the complaint to court or ombudsmen then they pay out. saves them paying out the people with no balls to take it all the way

[Dyanomo]

I agree. They are just testing to see how serious you are. I say go to the ombudsmon and FOS. What have you got to loose?

[karenc79]

thanks for your replies. they havent actually said this is our final response, but it seems a pretty definite answer. So what is FOS? What should my next step be then when I go to Ombudsman?

 

Are there any template letters or advise I should follow when contacting them?

 

thanks for your help

Karen

[hellhasnofury]

thanks for your replies. they havent actually said this is our final response, but it seems a pretty definite answer. So what is FOS? What should my next step be then when I go to Ombudsman?

 

Are there any template letters or advise I should follow when contacting them?

 

thanks for your help

Karen

 

Hello Karen,

 

What preparation and homework have you done for this claim, Have you sent a SAR or a request to see your original credit agreement.

 

They are hoping that you will accept what they say and hope that you will go away. But you are not going to are you:D

 

Please give us a bit more background information so we can assist you

[karenc79]

I origianlly sent them a letter in May requesting a copy of the policy, they could not provide it, instead I got a statement of account along with the loan information ie, loan amount, interest charges, PPI amount, total etc and int rate.

 

Then in June, I got a reply in the form of a standard letter asking for more info and i completed a questionnaire stating reasons etc why i believe i was mis-sold the PPI. my reasons being were that I was told verbally by there memeber of staff that if I took out the PPI i would definitly get the loan. because of my desperate situation teamed with naivety, I agreed without hesitation.

 

So now they are saying that they dont believe I was mis-sold this PPI and I cant get a refund. Now I am certain I was mis-sold this. but how can I prove it if I was told verbally?? I was aware that the PPI would cover me for unemployment through accident and sickness, and that I would certainly be given the loan if I took out this expensive insurance!!

 

Does it say any of this in the small print? As I am sure I must ahve signed something to say I agree to the PPI charges, though I dont have a copy of this. I dont know what to say to the ombudsman especially where I am worried this cant be proved..

 

what do you think my chances are?? Its in the region of £3k i am wanting back.

 

Thanks again

x

[hellhasnofury]

I origianlly sent them a letter in May requesting a copy of the policy, they could not provide it, instead I got a statement of account along with the loan information ie, loan amount, interest charges, PPI amount, total etc and int rate.

 

Then in June, I got a reply in the form of a standard letter asking for more info and i completed a questionnaire stating reasons etc why i believe i was mis-sold the PPI. my reasons being were that I was told verbally by there memeber of staff that if I took out the PPI i would definitly get the loan. because of my desperate situation teamed with naivety, I agreed without hesitation.

 

So now they are saying that they dont believe I was mis-sold this PPI and I cant get a refund. Now I am certain I was mis-sold this. but how can I prove it if I was told verbally?? I was aware that the PPI would cover me for unemployment through accident and sickness, and that I would certainly be given the loan if I took out this expensive insurance!!

 

Does it say any of this in the small print? As I am sure I must ahve signed something to say I agree to the PPI charges, though I dont have a copy of this. I dont know what to say to the ombudsman especially where I am worried this cant be proved..

 

what do you think my chances are?? Its in the region of £3k i am wanting back.

 

Thanks again

x

 

Hello Karen,

 

I would estimate your chances at the present moment with their last response to be zilch.

 

You really need to be doing some detective work and get all information that they hold on this account,

 

A full S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), you will find the template letter in the ppi sticky, copy,paste and amend it to your personal details. Send a £10 postal order and send it recorded delivery as soon as. You can track the letter using the royal mail website. They have 40days + 2 days postage under the Data protection Act 1998. They should send you all information, this is including recorded telephone conversations or telephone transcripts.

 

It is truely amazing that they state that they cannot supply you with the policy details. and I bet you £1 they will not be able to produce your credit agreement either. They have a terrible track record regarding production of such importand documents, they hopefully will be their downfall.

 

Also send a legal request under the consumer credit act section 77/78 for a copy of your true credit agreement, that is the one you signed to agree to the loan of money (which would include the ppi and the ppi interest).

 

Creditors and DCAs - Letter Templates & Budget Planner you need letter N

 

This will cost you £1, again send a postal order and send recorded delivery. They have 12working days + 2 days postage. If they don't supply it within this time scale, they are in breach of the cca and the account will be in legal dispute. And then after a following 30days they have committed a criminal offence.

 

Don't be disheartened by their normal standard template response, cause when it comes down to it. Under the Misrepresentation Act, the onus is on them to prove that they did not mis-sell it to you.

 

I do consider that you are quite a way off from approaching the FOS with this complaint, there is a lot more you can do before this.

 

When was the loan taken out. and can you give us an ideal of the breakdown of the loan, ppi and interest they charged

Edited August 11, 2008 by hellhasnofury

[karenc79]

Hi, thank you so much for taking the time to reply. I really do appreciate it.

 

Ok, I have just looked at the letter again as I am now at home, and it says "The policy was provided on a non advice basis. this means no recommendation was made...." WHAT RUBBISH!!!!!!!!!!

 

OK, so I need to a SAR then to get ALL information rather than just a random typed up letter stating what is consisted of?

 

The loan was taken out in May 05, for £23,500 over 6 years. The PPI came to £5400 and the interest approx £6000. I was made fully aware of these costs at sale, I wasnt happy with it, but when I am told by a Nat west advisor that I can only get the loan with the £5400 PPI i didnt even question it. I didnt expect to be conned by a bank i trusted (at that point!!).

 

18 months after the loan started, I cancelled the PPI. They refunded the unspent PPI back on to the loan no problem, along with interest. This totalled about £2300.

 

Should I send the legal letter and the SAR one together?

 

thanks again for your help.

[alanalana]

hello karenc,

 

and HHNF classic advice as ever:)

 

 

Hi, thank you so much for taking the time to reply. I really do appreciate it.

 

Ok, I have just looked at the letter again as I am now at home, and it says "The policy was provided on a non advice basis. this means no recommendation was made...." WHAT RUBBISH!!!!!!!!!!

 

OK, so I need to a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) then to get ALL information rather than just a random typed up letter stating what is consisted of? (Yes and see this template....Full S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) for ppi from Hellhasnofury.

 

 

The loan was taken out in May 05, (This was 4 months after the Financial Services Authority ruling on the mis-selling of PPI _ this means you are within the regulations for mis-selling of PPI as ruled by the FSA) for £23,500 over 6 years. The PPI came to £5400 and the interest approx £6000. I was made fully aware of these costs at sale, I wasnt happy with it, but when I am told by a Nat west advisor that I can only get the loan with the £5400 PPI i didnt even question it.(make sure you ask for all the data in your SAR. include all paper, elecronic, CD, Microfisch, film, hard drive, floppy disk etc etc. I didnt expect to be conned by a bank i trusted (at that point!!).

 

18 months after the loan started, I cancelled the PPI. They refunded the unspent PPI back on to the loan no problem, along with interest. This totalled about £2300.

 

Should I send the legal letter and the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) one together? IMHO yes start the claim now we have had enouh fob offs:eek:

aa

 

thanks again for your help.

[hellhasnofury]

Hi, thank you so much for taking the time to reply. I really do appreciate it.

 

Ok, I have just looked at the letter again as I am now at home, and it says "The policy was provided on a non advice basis. this means no recommendation was made...." WHAT RUBBISH!!!!!!!!!!

 

OK, so I need to a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) then to get ALL information rather than just a random typed up letter stating what is consisted of?

 

The loan was taken out in May 05, for £23,500 over 6 years. The PPI came to £5400 and the interest approx £6000. I was made fully aware of these costs at sale, I wasnt happy with it, but when I am told by a Nat west advisor that I can only get the loan with the £5400 PPI i didnt even question it. I didnt expect to be conned by a bank i trusted (at that point!!).

 

18 months after the loan started, I cancelled the PPI. They refunded the unspent PPI back on to the loan no problem, along with interest. This totalled about £2300.

 

Should I send the legal letter and the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) one together?

 

thanks again for your help.

 

Hello Karen,

 

It is ok to send them together and do it as soon as you can, to start the clock ticking:-D Remember to send them recorded delivery, keep you receipt and you can track the delivery on the royal mail website for proof of delivery

[karenc79]

thanks again for your help, you are a helpful bunch!

Also, I am epilieptic. Surely this would not have been covered in the policy???

 

I have written out the SAR letter and the request for credit agreement. I have also writtena cover letter to the evil man who refused this saying the following.

Is this ok or is there anything I should or shouldnt say???

Thank you very much for your letter dated 5 August declining my PPI claims. As you may well imagine this is not a satisfactory answer therefore I have included two letters, one Subject Access Request and another requesting to see a copy of the credit agreement.

I am outraged to see your letter states that the policy was provided on a “non advice” basis. This is clearly not true. I was desperate and naive when I went to the Hampstead Village Branch of NatWest in May 2005 where a male member of staff clearly took advantage of this fact and was false with his information when describing the policy.

The detail I was given regarding the PPI was that it would cover me in the event of accident and/or sickness and unemployment and that it would also give me a higher chance of being accepted for the loan application. This is clearly a fabrication and the PPI is not a condition of the loan. The cancellation period was also not clearly expressed to me.

I therefore wish for you or the appropriate person to provide me with the information outlined in the letters enclosed so I can resubmit my claim.

Yours faithfully

[hellhasnofury]

thanks again for your help, you are a helpful bunch!

 

Also, I am epilieptic. Surely this would not have been covered in the policy???

 

 

I have written out the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) letter and the request for credit agreement. I have also writtena cover letter to the evil man who refused this saying the following.

 

Is this ok or is there anything I should or shouldnt say???

 

Thank you very much for your letter dated 5 August declining my PPI claims. As you may well imagine this is not a satisfactory answer therefore I have included two letters, one Subject Access Request and another requesting to see a copy of the credit agreement.

 

I am outraged to see your letter states that the policy was provided on a “non advice” basis. This is clearly not true. I was desperate and naive when I went to the Hampstead Village Branch of NatWest in May 2005 where a male member of staff clearly took advantage of this fact and was false with his information when describing the policy.

 

The detail I was given regarding the PPI was that it would cover me in the event of accident and/or sickness and unemployment and that it would also give me a higher chance of being accepted for the loan application. This is clearly a fabrication and the PPI is not a condition of the loan. The cancellation period was also not clearly expressed to me.

 

I therefore wish for you or the appropriate person to provide me with the information outlined in the letters enclosed so I can resubmit my claim.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Possibly mention the fact of your medical history, that was never discussed, would have made this policy useless:-D

[karenc79]

Excellent. I will do. Thanks I shall let you know how I get on. also, can I post a chq rather than a postal order?

[CHF]

the fact you had epilepsy does not necessarily make the policy useless. This is a myth that people continue to propagate. The T+C's of most of NW polices cover pre-exsting medical conditions. More importantly, NW did not offer any advice on the policy. It was the customers responsibility to read the cover and decide if they wanted to purchase it.

 

However, yopu should just go straight to the FOS on this one. The argument you will win with there is that 'you were not advised that any refund applied would be disproportionate'. This one never fails as theis little gem of info is hidden in the certificate of insurance which is sent out post sale - FOS do not like this one bit as it is a very salient piece of information and is provided post sale.

[dacascos42]

I had this issue with NatWest, I had a loan with them in March 05 over 84 months. Found out that the ppi was only over 60 months but they added the ppi to the loan and then added interest onto that combined total. This meant that I was paying 7 years interest on a PPI that would have run out after 5 years.

 

Got the FOS involved and am getting a full refund of all premiums. If you have your loan breakdown see how much the PPI is p/m and times it by 72, if the total is higher than the quoted insurance figure, try and times it by 60 this will give you a rough estimate whether it covered 5 or 6 years. If it only covered 5 then it was mis sold.

Edited August 15, 2008 by dacascos42

[karenc79]

Thanks for the info. I'm sorry, but could you explain a bit more what you mean when you say 'you were not advised that any refund applied would be disproportionate' etc. I am not 100% clear on what you mean.

Sorry, I'm being thick I am sure!!!

thanks

Karen

[alanalana]

Hello karen,

 

However, yopu should just go straight to the FOS on this one. The argument you will win with there is that 'you were not advised that any refund applied would be disproportionate'. This one never fails as theis little gem of info is hidden in the certificate of insurance which is sent out post sale - FOS do not like this one bit as it is a very salient piece of information and is provided post sale.

as posted by CHF

 

I believe what is said is you were not advised that the ppi REFUND/REBATE on cancellation would in no way meet the cost incurred in taking it out in the first place. Namely you take out PPI masssssssive cose and if you cancel you get very litttttttle back in rebate or refund.That is the way they financial institutions have been making their money and the other downside is the policy would probable not pay out because of exclusions which will most likely not have been explained to you at the point of sale by an advisor:eek:

 

hope this helps your understanding of the meaning RIP OFF;-)

 

aa

[CHF]

alanalana is quite correct there. The method of calcualting a refund is what is known as 'Rule of 78' calcualtion. Basically its a way of apportioning the premium you pay over the term of the loan. Its not so much of a rip off once you know the basic premise behind it is that as the risk to the bank/insurer in the earlier years is greater (loan amount is higher and more unexpired time to cover), then the banks can charge more for the earlier years. They can also add in reasonable admin charges. However, the disclosure of this information is contained in the 'Certificate of Insurnace'. For most NW loans done in branch etc. this paperwork is sent out to you after the sale. The FOS have not upheld a single complaint in favour of the bank in this respect.

 

Consider the person who takes several loans and increases/decreses them every couple of years. Each time he cancels the cover and gets the new loan (or voce versa) he has wasted another heap of money. Many many people have this type of loan history and have lost a packet.

[karenc79]

Hi paintball, yes you were right it does relate to this thread!

[Paintball]

Hi paintball, yes you were right it does relate to this thread!

 

 

Can you PM a Site Helper and ask them to remove your other thread and can you post the Q again on here so that other people can add their input?

 

Once you've posted up the Q again on this thread, I can add my own views and input.

 

Thanks ... xx

[karenc79]

Hi there,

 

I sent off a credit agreement request letter to NatWest enclosing the £1 fee on 12th August and I still have not had a reply despite the chq being cashed.

 

Is there a template chaser letter I can send?

 

They still have 20 days to reply to me re the SARS and they haven't yet cashed the cheque for that.

 

Many thanks

Karen

[Paintball]

Hi Karen

 

My personal feeling is that you will need to be patient a little longer on the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) front (there are about 20 days remaining) and possibly too with the Credit Agreement as this will hopefully be included in all the information/documentation that they send you.

 

I realise that NatWest insist that your loan (arranged on a face-to-face basis) was conducted on a non advised basis, but you should read the FSA information on Advised and Non Advised sales so that you are aware of what these entail and whether you feel you have been fairly treated: http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/other/factsheet_sales.pdf

 

Even though no recommendations were made you were still entitled to "receive sufficient information on the product to enable you to make an informed decision based on whether it meets your own demands and needs" i.e. your personal circumstances.

 

You should also have "been offered information on a range of products for you to make your own informed decision". This would be alternative insurance products available in the market place and their comparative costs against what NatWest were offering you. They would definitely have access to this information as a big high street lender.

 

You could also have expected a Demands and Needs Statement from NatWest containing this information, allowing you to make a truly informed decision about your purchase.

 

HTH

Edited September 8, 2008 by Paintball
Typo ...

[karenc79]

ah the SAR, I am not chasing that yet, but the CCA, I was told they have 12 days to reply and they are well overdue for that!

 

Thanks so much for your help, i really appreciate it as I feel a little out of my depth with this.

 

Do you think I would be sucessful in getting back approx £3k that I am claiming or do you think I am wasting my time?

 

Thanks again

[Paintball]

No, I don't think that you are wasting your time ... but I do know from personal experience that patience is essential

 

Please try not to worry, you have many friends and helpers here who have experience in reclaiming PPI.

 

If NatWest don't provide you with the Credit Agreement then this can only add weight to your case and argument.

 

Best wishes ... xx