Re: Distressing phone call from MBNA

[sunflower99]

Hi Car!

Thanks for propmpt response to my query! Yes i think MBNA are trying to be clever and they do not actually say those two papers are actually connected just implying it!so rthe choice is to either igore them or try and isssue civil court procceddings to get the cca declared unenforceable!I will need to do a bit of research and get some advice on civil court procceedings to see how best to proceed andwhether to go for a civil proceedings or not!.So at moment while i am thinking about what to do next it would best to withold all payments to them, Should i send them a letter headed account in dispute and that as their terms and conditions are not on same signed paper and appear to be a seperate document! Plus the fact that they do not state the correct late and over the limit charges on the original document! and the fact that their agreement is difficult to read ! That that i still feel their agreement is unenforceable!

[car2403]

You could simply send them a letter before action. If they don't reply, you'll need to decide what you want to do at that stage. At this moment in time, it's a stalemate and they are winning as you haven't progressed this further. Sending the LBA is the next stage. After that, it's either Court, or you complain to the regulators, get nowhere with them, then have to reconsider Court anyway. If you do go to Court, there's loads of experience on here to get you through it. It's actually a lot less scarey that you think it is right now, but then I've done it before, many times, so I know how you are feeling - I felt the same way the first time I took Court action.

 

The secret is to stick to your guns, learn as you go along, ask for help and - this is the most important step - be in control of your own case... They can't dictate timescales, processes, etc, to you. You have to be prepared to stand up and take the fight to them. If you aren't prepared to do that, you should probably stop now, roll over and play dead, and continue making payments on an improperly executed agreement. It's a tough talking to, I know, but you need to know how they play the game - they will say this and that and the other to get you thinking and give them more time. They are trying to get you to give up. Don't let them win.

 

If you do issue Court proceedings - which you can do online, using a website and a credit/debit card, by the way - you can then use Civil Procedure Rules to get their compliance with your request.

 

If you are unsure as to what to do, I suggest you read the other threads of those that have gone before you - only then can you see how much time and energy of yours do these cheeky companies waste along the way. You're only just beginning out and the game hasn't even started yet. If you're stuck for something to read, thread-wise, take a look at my HFC Bank and RBS threads - all of which involved some of the same issues as your claim and all of which I won. Also take a look at my GE Capital Bank thread, which I didn't win, but learnt loads along the way. (That also shows what happens when you delay, as I'm now out of time to appeal an incorrect Judges decision, so am stuck with a default for the next 3/4 years or so as a result - thanks, Judge!)

 

[angel_1]

hiya sunflower and all

 

what a brill reply car, im going to have a look at all the points you have posted on the last post as i continue with my journey

 

dashing off at the momement but will be back later guys

 

keep your chin up sunflower, we can get through this remember you have positive friends here and that is something others in the Real world without cag have not

 

ciao for now maz

[sunflower99]

Hi Car! Wow! You have given me something to think about this saturday!itwould be lovely if i could go through with this Thanks to links to these threads it will be very helpful to read up on your threads and learn more about this procedure abd see if i can find the bottle to do this! As you say the altrnative is letting MNNA win and be in permenant debt with them and putting up with them making my life a misery with threatograms and phone calls constantly getting me to up my payments to them as even when people invove citazens advice debtline or credit conselling service they still pursue people to increase payments and make threats to them which is totally out of order or if i carry on fighting them by just witholding payment and not doing anything else i will be in a constant battle with them in a trap of chasing of their agents off me all the time which will probably go on for several years until hopefully debt becomes statue barred!so your suggestion does make sense!Thanks for your help!

[Gazza112]

Hi Sunflower

 

That's brilliant what car put forward to you, just received a letter today from Capital 1. they stated that i never wrote the last letter to them, also the letter i sent them had the wrong 16 digit number on it and to resend the letter, which for there info i did sent the correct number.

Funny thing there reference number on the letter is my correct number which i used in my last letter.

 

Gaz

[AA99]

Hi Guys! Watching this thread with great interest of course. MBNA have till 21st to produce our SAR's and then it will definitely be LBA letters to them. Good Luck

[The GodMother]

cool

Keep on them they hate it when ur right

[sunflower99]

Hi Maz! yes Cars suggestion is a good one if we all find the bottle to do it it!As the alternative is several miserable years fighting MBNA and chasing of their DCAs. I Will have quite a bit of reading to do to find out more about it though!I am going to chill out rest of day now and try and relax a bit!This is my last decent weekend for a while as the next five sundays after this wekend i have volunteered to work overtime and do a six day week!:eek:in run up to christmas!At least i get double time which will help us with our fiancial problems though if i take Cars rsuggestion id better keep some of the money back! I amn not looking forward to loosing my sundays:-( but at least the extra money will be a help!

[sunflower99]

Hi Gazza!

since getting into problems with MBNA and joining this forum my opinion of banks has totally changed.I am now countinually amazed at the tactics they use!so crapital one are tottally denying receiving one your lettters and then saying you have put in an incorrect number even though you know you put in the right number!I am countinually amazed at these banks Yesterday !i got a very moral threatogram from MBNA saying in big letters Help Us to Help You To Repay Our Money You Spent:eek:!LOL ive been vey bad!

[sunflower99]

Hi A99 and Godmother!

Mbna must hate this forum! LOL i never thought id be seriuosly thinking about takeing a bank to court before joining this forum!They nust hate it when people fight back using their own weapons and threats!

[Gazza112]

Hi Sunflower

 

Yes, also received two letters from MBNA and Abbey.

Abbey was telling me i was very bad in not paying there credit card:rolleyes: and they would default me:eek:. As they've already done this to me.

Mbna was just telling me to repay there outstanding balance:eek: i am trying to pay as they can see that on there statements £1 a month, what else do they expect a person to do.

 

Gaz

 

Mbna was

[car2403]

Hi Guys! Watching this thread with great interest of course. MBNA have till 21st to produce our S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)'s and then it will definitely be LBA letters to them. Good Luck

 

AA99, if they don't comply with the DPA SAR, then Sunflower can take Court action to force their compliance with it - that is a different cause of action, though, not linked to the CCA issues. So, 1 x claim for the CCA issues and 1 x claim for the DPA SAR issues...

 

On the subject of Court fees, you may find you're entitled to help;

 

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex160a_e.pdf

[The GodMother]

Car just a question but a seperate company have not complied with my SAR request how would i word a N1 and would i bee entitled to any type of compensation?

[car2403]

Car just a question but a seperate company have not complied with my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request how would i word a N1 and would i bee entitled to any type of compensation?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/helpful-external-links/7054-data-protection-act-taking.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/6971-data-protection-act-non.html

 

[The GodMother]

thanks car

[sunflower99]

Hi Car

Thanks for all your advice.You have certainly given me a lot to think about this weekend!I will be reading up on all those threads next week and try and find out more about this procedure!I must admit it is quite a big step to make in my war with MBNA and i cant help worrying what if---- !Liike suppose it does turn out that what MBNA alledge is on back of agreement is actually on back of it!or it is found to be enforceable! Would that make things a lot worse for me.?and the amount on my MBNA account is over £5000 so would that make it more difficult as it is above a small court claim?I can see that it would be great if i could succed with this and would save me the worry years and years of fighting of MBNA and their DCAs! and what you say makes sense! but what if it all goes wrong!

[cashins]

Liike suppose it does turn out that what MBNA alledge is on back of agreement is actually on back of it!

 

Well it wouldn't help!!!

 

Couple of points though, it's not impossible but unlikely, chances are they would have to cobble together assorted bits of paper and try to convince a judge, (which if properly defended would be very hard going.) Other point is, you can never say never but MBNA appear to have a big aversion to court action.

 

I owe around 10k on an MBNA and despite never ending dire threats from them, my deliberate insults, outright provocation and telling them to 'put up or shut up' have not got me into a courtroom after 10 months.

 

Eventually, they will most likely sell it.

 

David

[sunflower99]

Hi Cashins

you are in same boat as me regarding MBNA as we both owe over £5000 which means it is classed as a higher action i think,Thanks for your post and moral support,It is difficult to know what to do for best,What Car says makes sense but it is a big thing to do and have to think it out very carefully if i do decide i have the bottle to do this!I was assuming i would not be involving myslf in court proceedings unless i was forced into it by a DCA!and they initiated proceedings! it is a novel idea to me that i would be the one to initiate proceedings!Car has certainly given me food for thought this weekend!

[car2403]

It is a big thing, but this will run on and on if you don't force their hand either way.

 

If it's not a small claim, you do need to be weary of costs - if you lose (unlikely, but possible, of course) you will have to pay Court costs on top of the debt. If you win, the debt will be gone and MBNA will owe you money for bringing the claim against them.

 

Admittedly, it is a risk and you need to weigh up your options. If you don't need further credit, you can run the risk of a default and just stop paying. I wouldn't let the buggers get away with it, but then, you aren't me and I don't know (or want to tell you what to do) what your circumstances are. As I said, it's your call, but this is the most effective way of dealing with it. There are others, but they are known to be a waste of time in some instances. (Financial Ombudsman Service, for example)

[sunflower99]

Hi Car

Thanks for response to my last post.Yes it is a difficult call and as you say there are costs and ive no idea how much it would cost me even to initiate these proceedings!You think this cca stands a good chance of being unenforceable particulary as it is almost ineligible and no mention of correct default and over the limit charges ,so i would have to do some research Having said about costs though i suppose if i managed to put away even a quarter of the money i used to struggle to pay MBNA in monthly minimum repayments ! I would have enough to initiate proceedings! LOL.So best to keep an open mind about it and do sme research on it.Trouble is my husband was worrried when i suggested doing this.I will as you say have to think carefully about this ,While i am thinking about it though would it be a good idea to write to MBNA saying account is in dispute and i dont think their CCA is enforceable because it is almost ineligble and the fact that the signature page is not attached to the other part!Though obviously MBNA will deny it!But at least MBNA will be informed that account is offficially in dispute when they try and set their other agents on meI think it is a brilliant idea tjough to challenge them usuing civil procedure rules and would get them of my back permenantly but as you say it is finding the money and arming myself with more knowledge before i can consider doing this big step!Though i owe money to other credit cards and the battle will be far from over even if i was to suceed with MBNA! MBNA is the bank i owe most money to so it would be a relief to get them of my back!Thanks again for your interest in my thread and the help and advice you have given me!

Edited November 16, 2008 by sunflower99

[car2403]

It will cost you £100 (payable on claim issue) to issue a Court claim for £5,000. If it gets to a hearing, there is a hearing fee of £500. (Payable 7 days prior to any final hearing) MBNA will likely give you threads of up to £4k-£5k in costs should you lose. I would give it 9-12 months to get the Court action resolved successfully.

 

Reading the other MBNA threads will let you know what you're getting in to and show you that they don't like defending Court cases.

 

Oh, a complaint to the FOS is free for you.

[sunflower99]

Hi Car!

Thanks for giving me an idea of initial costs so at least i will know where i stand in regards to knowing what sort of money i need to find .As i said if i stopped paying some of these credit card people who can not provide me with a valid CCA ! if put a fraction of the money iim not paying them in monthly repayments into a pursue the beggers through court saving fund! LOL i would eventually find some money fo do it!At least the initial fees are not impossible to find in future! I thought it would be a lot more exoensive that that!One good thing is a work colleague of mine recommended a solicter for me who she uses who runs a free drop in legal clinic for the public on certain days! She said he was very helpful and was brilliant in giving her some initial advice in sorting out her divorce problems plus other problems.Apparently he runs a debt and money advice day on certain days so i was wondering if it might be worth my while arranging to pop in to see him with my MBNA cca and discussing with him the issues discussed on this forum! and discussing the civil procedure rules with him.i know not being a paid solictor he would not be able to be as much help as a paid one but at least he would probably be able to give me some advice and idea about things !I will have a look at MBNA threads this week.I have been having a little trawl through yourr threads Car! I loved it the way you were trying to set Baliffs onto Barclays! LOL especially pleased it was Barclays as they are pretty horrible bank !I ony fall into arrears with them a few days each month as i am only constantly a month behind in minimum repayment to them as that is one of the banks i am still struggling to pay well over a £100 a month! but like clockwork every month with out fail just before my pay day they ring me at home several times and they have even rung me at work and told my superviser they are Barclays to embaress and humilate me! if they look at their stupid computer they will see that i am making regular payments to them on a certain date!just always a few days behind! LOL so i am partiiculary pleased you got them!That made my sunday!LOL You certainly got some bottle car!

[car2403]

I can only tell you how I feel about all this, but I wouldn't bother my ass with a solicitor. Most solicitors aren't experts on Consumer Credit Law - and if you can find one, they will charge you a decent whack in cash.

 

Everything I have learnt (which is a lot, if you are reading through my threads you'll get an idea of just how much!) has come from this site. There are several well versed, very well established claimants/defendants on this site that you can pick the brains of along the way. You aren't alone in all this, thanks to CAG.

 

Generally, any Solicitor you contact local to you will likely tell you that you don't have a decent enough claim for them to ask you to pay them. The reason being is that they don't know the CCA inside and out. The reason for that is that most debtors won't seek advice from a solicitor regarding credit agreements, so there isn't a "market" for that sought of advice. IMHO...

 

Stick with CAG, kidda - it's free (they ask for donations if you recover some funds, but that's voluntary donations) and it won't mean you have to visit some solicitor on a regular basis.

[sunflower99]

Hi Car

Thanks for advice about not using this free legal clinic thing and warning me about the probability that most general solicters are not very up on consumer credit law.i suspected that it would proably be the case,so not worth wasting a day off for going to this legal clinic!Better of spending the time i would have spent there going through CAG threads!

[sunflower99]

Hi everyone!

i wanted to write a letter to FOS as advised by Car complaining about MBNAs CCA pointing out that i dont think it is enforceable on the following points-

1.the cca is in several parts and the ts and cs are not on same side as signed part and only on MBNAs implication by sending two pieces of same sized paper that it may or may not be on same document

2There is no mention of over the limit charges and late charges on paper that may or may not be on other side of signed bit!

3.On seperate papers which MBNA sent along with this agreement were not the current terms when i took card outm in 2002 as the charges are stated as £12,The charges were a lot higher than that when i took card out in 2002.so seperate papers appear to be current ts and cs not the ones in force when i took out card!

4.the two short papers which are supposed to be the original agreement and which MBNA imply by sending them together that they may or may not be on front and back of agreement are very difficult to read and therefore could be described as ineligible and are very difficult to read

I am not very good with lettersand not had much experience with composing letters and wonder if some experienced Cagger who is good at these legal and formal complaint letterrs could give me some advice and even better send me a draft or letter template to express all this properly and in legal sounding terms!As i do tend to waffle on a bit and not vey good at concise legal letters that impress people! LOLI would be very grateful for any advice about this!Thankyou!

Edited November 16, 2008 by sunflower99