I've been summoned to court: Couldn't show Railway Young Persons Card

[100]

This isn't a clear-cut fair-avoidance case, so please do read it through. I was stopped onboard a train on May 14th, and asked to show my ticket. I showed my (valid) ticket to the inspector. He asked me for my Young Persons card. I looked through my bag, but couldn't find it.

 

He took a statement from me, because I did not have £20 or my Y-P card.

 

The ticket was refused by the inspector, and treated as 'invalid', demanding £20 fixed fee, I was unable to present funds at the time.

 

Later on in the journey, I was able to find the travelcard in my bag.

 

I looked up and down the whole train (8 coaches) for an inspector , but I could not locate either of them.

 

I recieved a without-prejudice-style letter in the post on 17th June, to which I replied on 20th June, stating that I *had* presented a ticket and *couldnt* find my Young Persons card, which later I found, I searched for the inspectors, but I believed the ticket inspectors to have got off the train. I sent it back on the 20th June, but I think they ignored it or didn't receive it, because of this summons thing.

 

However, today I received a court summons for the 29th July at my local court...

 

stating that "I failed to hand over a valid rail ticket for inspection and verification when asked to do so by an authorised person."

 

I have three options on the court summons...

 

1) Guilty non-attending

2) Guilty attending

3) Not guilty.

 

I have two questions...

 

i) Will I get a criminal record if I plead (1) and offer to pay by cheque? (to simply get rid of the matter... "easy option" ... it is £125 in total)

 

ii) is there ANY chance a magistrate would decide in my favour, given that I can provide the fact I had a travelcard valid for the time travelling, but I simply was unable to show it due to personal disorganisation ? (I still have the travelcard but not the ticket, but on the witness statement it has the ticket #, which should be traceable within the train company)

 

Many thanks indeed for your help!

 

Sol

[Guest wino]

I don't understand how the summons states you failed to hand over a valid ticket when the inspector has written down your ticket number:confused:

 

I would personally go to court and fight this. it is just a pity that you did not keep the ticket.

 

When you purchased your ticket did you have to show your YP card?

[100]

I would like those who face a similar situation in the future, that I resolved this matter with the train company.

 

It turns out the postal system mucked up and they did not receive my reply to their 'without prejudice' letter (an identity confirmation letter).

 

The prosecution (the train operator company demanding payment) are able to drop a court case (criminal or civil, however it is more often the former because of the railway sections of English law).

 

They dropped the charges against me because I was able to fax in substantiating proof, and having spoken to my solicitor today, this particular situation would have been 'thrown out' (prosecutor looses), because the inspector had not given me sufficient time to search all of my baggage for the railcard.

 

If you are a legitamite train customer and find yourself in a position where they prosecute you, I wish you the best of luck, I hope you don't get a criminal record (5yrs when checked, however after 5yrs, if you ever are convicted again, the magistrate or judge will see that you have a conviction history).

 

Sodding train companies, really should have their powers stripped, because all-in-all, a customer is a customer of a private company (the rail operator in question), and NO longer Her Majesty's companies. Dishonesty is one thing - like boarding without any ticket (don't even get me started about non-working ticket-machines at stations) , but I personally disagree that one should be liable to have a criminal record for the rest of their life due to disorganisation of baggage. My head going to be served up as, a criminal: whether or not the charge is unreasonable - because of an outdated government law that can be applied by PRIVATE trading companies!

 

I say they should have done some revision of the rules and technicalities before clamping down on transport enforcement ( last summer).

[Guest wino]

You must be relieved this does not have to go any further. All though I understand your anger and frustration.

[gyzmo]

I can sympathise. A few years ago I used monthly tickets for buses and trains but sometimes also used a weekly one if cash was short.

 

One day I renewed the monthly ticket but the next day I accidentally brought out the expired weekly ticket (exp by 1 day). I used to work (2 buses and two trains) but on the last train on my way home a PC stopped me and took me into the station office for questioning.

 

My explanations and offer to obtain the correct ticket fell on deaf ears, and the officer seemed determined to get me. But what made me really angry was this:

 

The PC got a call advising that there was a drunk passenger with a broken bottle who was threatening other people. And what did the PC say to me?

 

"do you mind if I go and see to this?"

 

Well, Duh! Lets see whats more important. A blonde hair day moment or someone threatening physical assault. So after giving my "permission" (I'd love to have seen what would happen if I said no) off he went and returned 20 minutes later.

 

After an admonsihment, a phone cal to my parents (worried sick) the PC released me on promise of referrral to his superiors to decide what action to take.

 

A week later I got a letter stating that I should count this as a formal warning but nothing more due to my co-operation.

 

My photocopy (and receipt) of the valid ticket accompanying a letter of complaint (with suggestion of teaching PCs the meaning of the word "priority") yielded no response.

[Meldrew2]

I don't understand how the summons states you failed to hand over a valid ticket when the inspector has written down your ticket number:confused:

 

 

Because the ticket is only VALID when accompanied by the railcard.

[stardust_john]

They seem to have got very heavy handed in the last years. It used to be if you could not produce the railcard that you could show it the next day. They seem more like the mafia nowadays.

PS. I know a ticket is not valid without card but accidents happen. When I am panicked to find something, I can be looking straight past whats in front of my face until Im worn out and see it was there all the time.

Edited July 19, 2008 by stardust_john

[granthar]

How come if you haven't got a ticket you get fined £20, yet if they haven't got a train the passenger gets nothing?