Joint account, claim issued, Help.

[questioning]

 

The names and addresses on both letters are correct.

Second page contains just what I wrote previously, just about the credit ref agencies, hasnot been signed by any one.

I read in loo loos thread what paul said about default notices, that they can contain penalty charges and that if they do it doesn't make the DN unenforceable.

Any way this is what they have got. (there letter of demand is what they call it)

Thanks

Edited July 11, 2008 by questioning

[AndyOrch]

Ok Q

 

That isnt a default note i assure you

 

Take note of 42mans advise above i can still see the details too

Well spotted 42nd I will have to get a new monitor on reflection;)

 

 

 

Regards

Andy

[questioning]

Questioning....I can see your name and postcode on the DG letter....edit them ASAP !!!!

 

OMG I was sitting back in the arm chair, the monitor was at an angle. I didn't see that, no glasses on, Thanks.

Edited July 11, 2008 by questioning

[questioning]

Big Thanks for spotting that 42man.

Edited July 11, 2008 by questioning

[questioning]

Post 13 in this thread has part of a defence written by pt, which involves the issue of 'no default notice', see here #13

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/140032-hsbc-county-court-claim.html

 

So this would form part of my defence along with POC very vague, doesn't say any thing about a loan, first thing I new about it containing payment for a loan was today. No account number.

This account has penalty charges, how many I don't know yet.

Are they entitled to add a loan and overdraft together like this? Especially when they haven't mentioned the loan, only one letter regarding it.

Just seen on the satement that the day they closed the account they have entered a REFUND OF DEBIT INTEREST, seven entries totalling nearly £200.00. all together. Why would they do this?

Any idea what this is about?

Obviously interest they have taken off, but why? OK I KNOW WHAT THIS IS NOW, sorted

Edited July 14, 2008 by questioning

[AndyOrch]

Hi Q

 

Yes i am aware that they have amalgamated two debts into one and no this is inappropiate hence no account numbers on the P.O.C.Seen it done many times Q you are not the first or the last i hasten to add.This is the importance of the S.A.R to verify in the absence of statements what figures are being claimed and from where.The loan element of the claim needs to be highlighted but not admited in your defence and as such will not be straight forward.I would suggest that you now request seperatly a CCA request from the claiment with ref to the loan account enclose £1.00 Po and do not sign, print name ASAP.As they have not sent it in your CPR request and are obliged to if you request it in this way.We will need to make reference to this in your Defence and with accurate timing they will be in default (hopefully) bythe time of your defence submission.

 

 

Regards

Andy;)

Edited July 12, 2008 by Andyorch

[questioning]

So I send CCA request for the loan to HSBC. not the sols.?

 

Does anyone know the best HSBC add to send the CCA letter too?

Is it Canada square or a different address.

Edited July 10, 2008 by questioning
removing my waffle to make thread clearer

[AndyOrch]

Hi Q

 

Yes direct to HSBC

 

HSBC Bank Plc

Service Quality Team

Arlington Business Centre

Millshaw Park Lane

Leeds

LS11 0PP

 

Tel 08456 028006

 

Fax 08001696143

 

 

Regards

Andy;)

[questioning]

Brillian, thanks Andy,

 

I CAN see the bigger picture emerging. Hehehe!

 

One more thing, We NEVER received a default notice for the loan either! Pretty certain of that.

Edited July 11, 2008 by questioning

[questioning]

Hi

This thread is very similar to mine and the out come was that it's stayed.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/128428-requesting-advice-mums-behalf.html?highlight=Giants%2A

 

The differences are that the debt had been assigned to another company where mine is still with HSBC also as you can see they amalgamated two debts in the claim against me.:o

I didn't realise this by the POC, Just realised after the little bit of info they sent in reply to my CPR letter.

So they have well and truly complicated matters. Very inconsiderate of them.

I've added all bank charges and there are £900. approx, + a few more £'s

I haven't started with the spread sheet and interest yet.

will do that tonight.

I'm feeling alot better now, thank goodness.

[questioning]

In the claim against us The POC says..... 2. Interest pursuant to section 69 of the county court Act 1984 at a rate of 8.000% per annum from the date hereof at a daily rate of £0.65 to the date of judgment or sooner payment.

I have read a post that they cannot demand this interest, its against the county courts act.

Opinions please, Have I understood this correctly?

 

If so thats another fault in there POC, but I need to know if I've understood or not!

[pt2537]

In the claim against us The POC says..... 2. Interest pursuant to section 69 of the county court Act 1984 at a rate of 8.000% per annum from the date hereof at a daily rate of £0.65 to the date of judgment or sooner payment.

 

I have read a post that they cannot demand this interest, its against the county courts act.

Opinions please, Have I understood this correctly?

 

If so thats another fault in there POC, but I need to know if I've understood or not!

 

Yes thats absolutely correct,

 

on a debt which is regulated under the Consumer Credit act 1974, it is not permitted for them to claim section 69 County Courts Act interest

[AndyOrch]

Hi Q

 

Hope you are well

 

With regards to the above we will refute that anyway in your defence

 

 

 

Regards

Andy;)

[questioning]

Hi Andy, Feeling much better now thanks, have been quite poorly. So thats another aspect of there POC that's WRONG I love that word 'refute'

Andy did you have a look at the link I posted yesterday in post #85

very similar to mine. Should I post defence Friday morning 18th July, Next day G Del. so it is there before 1pm on Monday 21st.July. As I work nights, thursday posting is possible but awkward, wednesday posting is a bit early, doesn't give us much time left. What do you think?

 

PT, Thanks for that, I read it originally posted by you, just wanted to know if I had understood it.

I had understood, I really need to get my lack of confidence sorted out, its been with me all my life so it'll take a while to loose it.

 

ANYONE who is interested...

OMG, defence has to be at cc by 4pm, monday 21st july at the very latest. I HAVE to post, Next day G. as may be too long for MCOL and Mr. Q's def has to be posted as his password has never worked.

Getting close now, a few nerves are creeping in, Gosh the time has flown past.

Edited July 14, 2008 by questioning

[questioning]

Hi Andy,

Are you still up for preparing a defence for us,? please! if so that's great because I have been reading so many different threads but none that I have read have all the same elements as our case. ( if not then i reckon we may be well and truly stuffed)

I could have ago at botching one together from other threads but have no idea how to go about it because the fact that they seem to have sneaked this loan into the equation, its a big complication for us.

I think I'm out of my depth now. Also they seem to have only partly replied to the CPR letter, ?

The cca will not be in default by the time the defence is submitted, but I would assume the fact that I have sent the cca request would need to be bought into play. There failure to disclose the fact that the loan is being claimed for is a deliberate attempt to mislead us, after all in my OP I thought the whole claim was for the overdraft including all there charges/interest. No default notices received for either...

Edited July 16, 2008 by questioning

[questioning]

I've completed the simple Spread sheet in excel.

The figures are as follows:

They claim debt for Over draft of £2074.

The charges equal £948.50

The interest at 8% equals £269.18

With the charges & interest refunded it will reduce the balance to £856.32

 

I have had no word from Andy who kindly offered to prepare a defence for us. There is probably a good reason for this BUT I'm getting very anxious now. I'm not saying you have left us Andy but I can't get through to you via PM, so I'm just panicking now.

The latest I could post defence would be SAT 19th July (before 12.30 as any thing posted after 12.30 on a sat. does not go until the monday!) to be delivered before 1PM on Mon 21st July, This is the deadline (well 4pm on 21st)

I've had help from Andy and other posters from the beginning, thanks every one. I have trawled through the site & collected information (from very knowledgeable posters,) in a bid to help myself.

Trouble is I don't know how to collate the whole thing, plus there are a couple of confusing areas.

This thread is rather long but some posts can easily be skimmed through........... From post #80 it explains the situation quite clearly.

ANY HELP FROM ANY ONE OF YOU WOULD BE A LIFE LINE & much appreciated.

If I have to proceed on my own I think HSBC will win & I will fail miserably.

Edited July 14, 2008 by questioning

[questioning]

OK, It looks like I'm definately on my own now!

Here are my questions, Can anyone advise please, I'm running out of time.............

 

1) If I copy the HSBC particulars of claim from the bank templates library .............Will that be sufficient to address the bank penalty charges?

 

2) How would I address the very vague POC.?

 

 

3) The issue that no default notice's were received for the loan or overdraft,?

 

 

4) The fact that they have amalgamated the two (overdraft AND loan in there claim)?

 

 

5) Also this issue................... In the claim against us The POC says..... 2. Interest pursuant to section 69 of the county court Act 1984 at a rate of 8.000% per annum from the date hereof at a daily rate of £0.65 to the date of judgment or sooner payment. BUT..................

On a debt which is regulated under the Consumer Credit act 1974, it is not permitted for them to claim section 69 County Courts Act interest

 

6) CAN I state that they have not fully complied with my Request for Information ? What they sent me is in post #68, I would call that a partial reply, but I'm not sure!

 

I can't see how I can collate these issues, PLUS No default notice for overdraft seems to contradict the claim for refunding the penalty charges, :? What I mean is that they did not send a default notice and IF that could be proven then there should be no case to answer, In that case there would be no penalties to refund.

I have this statement below, obviously copied from another thread, which describes the need for a default notice.....

The Need for a Default notice

• Notwithstanding the above, it is also drawn to the courts attention that no default notice required by s87 (1) Consumer Credit act 1974 has been attached to the particulars of claim
  

• It is neither admitted or denied that any Default Notice in the prescribed format was ever received and the Defendant puts the Claimant to strict proof that said document in the prescribed format was delivered to the defendant
  

• Notwithstanding point XX, I put the claimant to strict proof that any default notice sent to me was valid. I note that to be valid, a default notice needs to be accurate in terms of both the scope and nature of breach and include an accurate figure required to remedy any such breach. The prescribed format for such document is laid down in Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) and Amendment regulations the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (SI 2004/3237)
  

• Service of a default notice is a statutory requirement as laid out in sections 87,88 and 89 CCA 1974.section 87 makes it clear that a default notice must be served before a creditor can seek to terminate the agreement or demand repayment of sums due to a breach of the agreement. therefore without a valid default notice, I suggest the claimants case falls flat and cannot proceed and to do so is clearly contrary to the Consumer Credit Act 1974
  

• Failure of a default notice to be accurate not only invalidates the default notice (Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain and Co - [2001] GCCR 2255) but is a unlawful rescission of contract which would not only prevent the court enforcing any alleged debt, but give me a counter claim for damages Kpohraror v Woolwich Building Society [1996] 4 All ER 119
  

ADVISE ON HOW TO PROCEED PLEASE.

Edited July 15, 2008 by questioning

[AndyOrch]

Hi Q sorry about not getting back to you I have had problems posting to threads.

 

 

 

 

 

Regards

Andy:cool:

[questioning]

Oh, gosh I could see you were online so couldn't understand why you hadn't come back to me!

I didn't think you were doing it purposly. You can tell by what I've posted. Hope u are ok.

Well you can see what I've been doing, Panicking to say the least.

[AndyOrch]

hi

 

Q as i have stressed throughout your thread dont panic, serves no purpose,easy for me to say but dont worry.Ok back to buisness we need to have your Defence ready by Thursday i presume you dont want to submit through MCOL and therefore would require an indepth defence?

 

Regards

Andy;)

[questioning]

No I won't be using MCOL,

I will post Gar. next day special Del.

Thanks Andy,

I am panicking a bit now, can't help it, not to the extent that I'm quaking or any thing.

I was pleased with the result of the bank charges once I had completed the simple SS.

Edited July 16, 2008 by questioning
Removed the chat from yesterday.

[questioning]

Hi Andy, Hope you are well.

Do you have all the info you need for defence?

I'm sure its all here but just wanted to check as I have to go out for a little while.

[questioning]

Hi Andy,

Are you having problem's posting again? OR

Is it me being impatient? The latter I hope!

[jonni2bad]

TODAY 10.37

 

...Do you have all the info you need for defence?

 

TODAY 11.17

 

Hi Andy,

Are you having problem's posting again? OR

Is it me being impatient? The latter I hope!

 

I'd go for the latter!

[questioning]

Andy I can't PM you either, I hope you are not having problems again,