employer wants passport on record

[Weird Al Yankovic]

 

So crh, I think you should be able to stand your ground and not have to produce your passport if you do not wish to, but if you were a Coach Driver you would have no problem producing your driving license for your employer would you??? and that has as much info almost as your passport, if you see where I am coming from.

 

BB

 

You raise some valid points.

 

But a coach driver would need to produce their driving licence for their job as it is a specific requirement.

 

What is specific about a British shelf stacker working in a supermarket in Grimsby and the need to produce a passport?

 

What I for one am concerned about is that this type of thing then becomes the norm.

 

Stubborn employers will insist on every employee having to produce a passport just to work.

 

What legal right do they have to do this?

 

It will be like ID cards via the back door!

 

People are people and most are workers and they are not some number in a little red book!

[BeauBrummie]

Ok, so they have your NI number, they will have your personal information such as your full name, age, address etc, probably your bank details, 3 references, originally employed through a specialist employment agency detailing specific skills no doubt (and probably where and how attained), even more info from that employment agency, 18 months service, a P45 and you have futher confirmed your right to work in the UK.

 

And probably dozens of other bits of info.

 

Now, they want a copy of your passport to determine you can work in the UK after all!

 

You couldn't make it up!

 

Totally agree Weird Al,

 

As I posted earlier, the HR Dept are being over cautious. However there will be some jobs around the country where a passport could be seen as an essential to prooving your most recent whereabouts (Secret Services Etc) or any job where your politics are of a concern.

 

BB

 

BB

[patdavies]

Totally agree Weird Al,

 

As I posted earlier, the HR Dept are being over cautious. However there will be some jobs around the country where a passport could be seen as an essential to prooving your most recent whereabouts (Secret Services Etc) or any job where your politics are of a concern.

 

BB

 

BB

 

I am not aware that my passport records either my whereabouts or my political affiliations.:o

 

These days, many countries do not stamp passports on entry/exit and do not require visas.

[patdavies]

not some number in a little red book!

 

I preferred the old blue passports anyway.

 

(mind you, I wouldn't mind having a modern blue one...)

[BeauBrummie]

I am not aware that my passport records either my whereabouts or my political affiliations.:o

 

These days, many countries do not stamp passports on entry/exit and do not require visas.

 

Quite agree, but certain employment types may look at the places you have visited around the world (sensitive areas such as Pakistan) and this could possibly lead to further investigation into your background and political affiliations etc. Fairly obtuse angle but Ibet it does go on.

 

BB

[JonCris]

The only requirements for a British citizen are that they provide proof of identity which might even include a utility bill. The receiver is only entitled to record the fact that they have seen it. They are not entitled to copy & keep it

 

& yes BW ID theft IS a major concern & it IS on the increase both here & abroad because organised criminals are obtaining access to call centres etc either through gaining direct employment or recruiting those already there. They are also now beginning to target anyone who has access to personal details such as employers

[BeauBrummie]

Hi crh,

 

Have done a bit of research for you and if you follow this link to a home office website you will find that you do not have to produce your passport. Your HR Dept have gone for the easiest option to make a Statutory defence against employing illegal workers, but there are many other ways and if you look through the document you will see what I mean.

 

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/employersandsponsors/preventingillegalworking/previousguidanceandcodes/comprehensiveguidance2004.pdf?view=Binary

 

 

Fun Reading

 

BB

[patdavies]

Quite agree, but certain employment types may look at the places you have visited around the world (sensitive areas such as Pakistan) and this could possibly lead to further investigation into your background and political affiliations etc. Fairly obtuse angle but Ibet it does go on.

 

BB

 

 

And you think that the security services would bother looking at a passport for that....

 

They have access to much more definitive data.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

For once - Heaven forfend - we agree;).

 

 

Oh God, let's hope it's a one off!

 

Only kidding!

[Weird Al Yankovic]

And you think that the security services would bother looking at a passport for that....

 

They have access to much more definitive data.

 

I totally agree.

 

:D

[BeauBrummie]

And you think that the security services would bother looking at a passport for that....

 

They have access to much more definitive data.

 

Ok I may be being a bit niave but the thought was there!!!!

 

BB

[Scribbler68]

My employer has also asked all staff to send in their passports (and not a copy, but the original document.)

I take on board other posters' examples such as the coach driver having to produce a driving licence, and I understand that there is the need to detect illegal workers, but nevertheless I'm inclined to ally myself with WAY on this one.

As a British citizen, I find it offensive that now, aged 40, having worked and paid NI and taxes for 20 years, I should be compelled to prove that I have the "right to work" in my own country!

I find it appalling that the burden of proof has been reversed so the assumption is that we are all illegal workers unless we can prove otherwise.

I think it's sadly typical of current politics that the government and employers are so scared of being accused of racial stereotyping, they have to demand the passports of ALL staff, (instead of just checking the documents of the Lithuanian bloke who works in admin).

I think it's the thin end of the wedge and we will soon all be forced to carry ID cards.

It seems the government wants to clamp down on the estimated half a million illegal workers by first clamping down on the 55 million of us who are law-abiding citizens.

I wonder what sanction my employer has available if I ignore the demand to submit my passport?

[dpick]

All I can say is if any employer of mine (though I have now retired) wanted to see my passport they would have to pay for the cost of me getting one first.

 

dpick

[patdavies]

Let me just repeat Conniff's earlier quote

 

"The Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Act 2006 ("the 2006 Act") came into force on 29 February 2008, introducing new criminal and civil penalties to prevent illegal working that will affect recruitment and employment practices throughout the UK. The new responsibilities under the 2006 Act apply to staff whose employment began on or after 29 February 2008. Read this article to ensure that you do not fall foul of these regulations."

 

Please note the bit in red.

 

Anybody employed before that date is outwith the requirements.

 

dpick has a very good point. If you don't hold a passport, is your employer going to fork out £72 plus and give you time off for the interview with IPS - probably not.

 

And what about awkward sods like me who have dual nationality - which passport do I produce? (In fact as soon as the ID card nonsense arrives with passport, I shall cease to hold a UK passport and rely on the other nationality).

[Weird Al Yankovic]

I wonder what sanction my employer has available if I ignore the demand to submit my passport?

 

 

This will surely be raised in a claim to an ET in the near future as, no doubt, somebody will be disciplined/sacked for refusing to submit their passport on demand and the employer will be so pig ignorant believing they have the right to demand it in the first place.

 

As in this threads example, the OP had been employed for 18 months yet her employer still demanded a copy of her passport. (Note, not just to view it but to actually make a copy of it! AND her employers are not one of the very few employers/authorities who have this right!)

 

Complete madness.

[JonCris]

Sorry BW but I couldn't disagree with you more. In the case of the OP not only are they being asked to provide a verified copy but also to allow said copy to be sent to an outside agency for verification where is is (allegedly) destroyed

 

As we have seen data gets lost & who's to say it won't fall into the hands of thieves. These persons are becoming more & more sophisticated in their methods & target such places for employment in order to obtain access to such data.

 

Rather then defeat ID theft today's obsession with holding info on everyone sometimes in the most ludicrous of circumstances, has resulted in an id thieves paradise

 

They have for the last few years targeted the banks & even the Home Office right on your doorstep & as these institutions become harder to penetrate they are now targeting the less sophisticated of operations Therefore I would be very wary of providing such documents for retention by a company which has no proven robust security

[jonny2mad]

Yesterday I and a friend were refused employment because we didn't have valid passports my friend had his old passport with him it was 2 months out of date , Ive never had a passport because I don't travel, I do have a combination of the other documents that prove I have a right to work in the UK was born here am a British citizen, my national insurance numbers, documents from former employers etc etc .

The job didn't have any need for a passport as we were not leaving the UK, but they seem to do this with everyone they employ telling them either you get a passport or we don't employ you is there anything that can be done about this ?

[honeybee13]

Hello. This doesn't sound reasonable to me. I'm sure some of the others will comment. Or you could have a look at the directgov or ACAS websites. ACAS have a confidential helpline.

 

This thread is very old though. Can I suggest you start a thread of your own on this forum?

 

HB

[dpick]

Yesterday I and a friend were refused employment because we didn't have valid passports my friend had his old passport with him it was 2 months out of date , Ive never had a passport because I don't travel, I do have a combination of the other documents that prove I have a right to work in the UK was born here am a British citizen, my national insurance numbers, documents from former employers etc etc .

The job didn't have any need for a passport as we were not leaving the UK, but they seem to do this with everyone they employ telling them either you get a passport or we don't employ you is there anything that can be done about this ?

 

I am wondering if this might be looked at as racial discrimination I would like to know if someone that looked white english would even be asked. I will also state that I am white and English this to me just seems totally unfair.

 

dpick

[Conniff]

I am wondering if this might be looked at as racial discrimination I would like to know if someone that looked white english would even be asked. I will also state that I am white and English this to me just seems totally unfair.

 

dpick

 

The answer to that is in the original post - "they seem to do this with everyone they employ "

[Sidewinder]

Yesterday I and a friend were refused employment because we didn't have valid passports my friend had his old passport with him it was 2 months out of date , Ive never had a passport because I don't travel, I do have a combination of the other documents that prove I have a right to work in the UK was born here am a British citizen, my national insurance numbers, documents from former employers etc etc .

The job didn't have any need for a passport as we were not leaving the UK, but they seem to do this with everyone they employ telling them either you get a passport or we don't employ you is there anything that can be done about this ?

 

There are unfortunately a thousand and one cases such as this. Whilst not a legal requirement to obtain proof of elgibility to work in the UK, should an employee later be found not to have the right to work in the UK, the employer will be fined many thousands of pounds, for which the only defence is where they have seen and verified certain documents. As one cannot discriminate by only asking those who look as if they may not be entitled to work, it is good practice to ask this information of every applicant. So Dpick - it might seem unfair, and indeed would be to only ask those who look or sound different, so most businesses will have a condition whereby they cannot proceed with an application (or at least confirm an appointment) unless the required documents are produced and copies retained.

 

Yesterday I and a friend were refused employment because we didn't have valid passports my friend had his old passport with him it was 2 months out of date , Ive never had a passport because I don't travel, I do have a combination of the other documents that prove I have a right to work in the UK was born here am a British citizen, my national insurance numbers, documents from former employers etc etc .

The job didn't have any need for a passport as we were not leaving the UK, but they seem to do this with everyone they employ telling them either you get a passport or we don't employ you is there anything that can be done about this ?

[/Quote]

 

Not doubting you, but are you sure that you were asked specifically for a Passport and only a Passport? The Home Office specify that you can produce a UK or EEA Passport (or one of several other documents if the candidate is not of UK or EEA origin but has the right to work), which on it's own will be sufficient to prove eligibility, OR in the event that the candidate does not have a Passport, two of certain other documents, one of which must be a UK Full Birth Certificate, Immigration Status Document etc plus NI document, previous employer document etc.

 

Interestingly there is no necessity for the Passport to be current, as long as it is a UK or EEA Passport (this came up on the Forum recently) so your friend should not have been refused, but in your case it is not correct that you were not given the opportunity to produce the other prescribed documents as long as one is a UK issued Full Birth Certificate.

 

I am afraid there is little that you can do other than to make sure that you have the right documents next time, as it is a legitimate reason to refuse an application in the absence of proof of eligibility, although it would seem that in this case perhaps the company were being over zealous or misinformed as to exactly what they needed to have proof of.

[JonCris]

Yesterday I and a friend were refused employment because we didn't have valid passports my friend had his old passport with him it was 2 months out of date , Ive never had a passport because I don't travel, I do have a combination of the other documents that prove I have a right to work in the UK was born here am a British citizen, my national insurance numbers, documents from former employers etc etc .

The job didn't have any need for a passport as we were not leaving the UK, but they seem to do this with everyone they employ telling them either you get a passport or we don't employ you is there anything that can be done about this ?

 

Are you of ethnic origin? if so their actions are discriminatory & NO ONE can force you to pay over £80 for a passport its simply NOT reasonable particularly if your presently unemployed. If the Job Center sent you report them

[Conniff]

I would agree that it is not reasonable as even after purchasing a passport, you wouldn't be guaranteed a job.