Lack of promotion, not happy

[manofsteel]

Hi,

I have worked this company for 2 years and 3 mths. Now i want to move up. so our assistant security manager is leaving. we are 4 officers + assist sec mge and sec mgr. i am senior in age (37) and time (6 months than next officer) to other officers. i have worked very hard during my two years. the manager is looking and has interview few external candidates.

I am sad that i have not even asked or considered for the position and when i said to manager i wish to put my name in the hat for the position because i need a promotion and move up. He replied don't even bother, and that i am not good enough. Since then two days ago i have been so sad and depressed that i don't know what to do. i also feel i am not acknowledged enough as well just because i am straightforward and get on my work, they (i.e. management or establishment) think all is well. its like i can't do anything to gain that promotion. even though they know my personal circumstances how financially stressed i am. i think its something else i don;t want to say it but maybe my background is not native english.

I was hoping that i have seen 2 assist sec mgrs b4 me and that since i am next in line in terms of exp and age i would be the automatic choice and i can take on more responsibilities. but no i am back to stage 1 and my career hasn't moved as it should have.

so now what should i do. do i just accept it which may have negtive impact on me or challenge it without knowing the outcome and risk of gettin messy or annoying mgr if i have file any proceedure. if i dont do naything i have to then wait another 1-2 yrs at least b4 such opportunity comes again.

[Bigmac versus]

If you feel so upset about it ask them what it is they are looking for from someone for this position and how you can improve your chances the next time around.

[manofsteel]

since i have joined 2 previous officers have gone on to become assist sec magrs and i have never let them down or givent them any problems, just that i think i come across to them as non-serious.

[poppynurse]

Hi Salman,

 

Promotion tends not to be done on length of service or age and there is no 'right' to promotion. The fact that management know you are struggling financially doesn't come into it at all I'm afraid.

 

Can I suggest you ask your manager (and/or colleagues) for an honest appraisal of your work and ask for support to develop in order to prepare you for the next vacancy that comes up. If a job is advertised you will have to apply for it like everyone else and they will choose the preferred candidate against whatever criteria they set. Have you considered looking at vacancies in similar companies who may value your experience?

[manofsteel]

I am coming from the point of view how i was treated. How my manager just brushed me off and said don't even bother, and that you are not good enough. This is what is stressing me for all the hard work i put and showed competency in my job i hear these comments, its as if i can do nothing right to get the promotion.

[Sidewinder]

Taking on board all of the points raised above, and agreeing to a certain extent that promotion can never be a 'given', I have to say that if you are denied even the opportunity to apply for a vacancy this could be seen in some circumstances as discriminatory. Unless the company have a published policy regarding qualification for promotion and it is clear that you do not meet their requirements, they have to be careful. To tell somebody that they should not apply without saying why is potentially straying into very dodgy ground.

 

Providing that you have a good work record and believe that you are qualified for the position, I would raise a grievance and ask them on what grounds your manager advised you not to bother applying. Ask what you need to do in order to be considered worthy of an application. Nothing wrong with saying that you consider the manager's attitude in telling you that you wouldn't even be considered offensive either.

[manofsteel]

Thanks for comments so far, much appreciated. is it advisable for me to start the process by writing out a email showing my interest and follow that up with one-to-one with manager. And if he discards it with casual attitute or not taking me seriously what do i do, how do i collect any proof or evidence for that. At the least I would like to keep record of all this so in future i have in my file this grievience.

I have also seen the position posted on the noticeboard for staff to see. I don't think manager will bring in someone inexperienced but if he does that will really **** me off.

 

also i think there's a little of favouritism that goes on, other officers are pinpointed or exaggerated for any thing but i am not. i only get that 'yeah that was good'. but both assist sec manager and sec manager like to brag about other officer front of me just to bring me down. Phsycological warfare i say.

 

I don't want to loose my job since i have a mortgage only 1 years old.

[Bigmac versus]

Rather than email put any interest in the promotion in writing to them.

[manofsteel]

Just an update, i listen to last post, and made my application despite been put off initially by giving the manager my letter application of interest. He has come back to me with a reply that it has been forwarded to HR and they will see you for that.

 

Any ideas how to move forward now. In HR should i raise my grieviennce on manager's remark early on.

[Bigmac versus]

So HR have your application then you should focus on selling yourself to them. If you want to deal with your manager that would probably not be the best time to do so, keep that seperate.

 

Ask yourself what they are looking for in this promotion and have your answers ready.

[manofsteel]

Any last minutes advice much appreciated since i am scheduled for meeting with HR tommorow. thanks for all the feedback so far.

[Bigmac versus]

The best advice I can give you is to try and think what questions they will ask you so you know what to say, take your time before answering and be confident.

 

Good luck to you.

[Sidewinder]

Emphasise your strengths and why you deserve the promotion more than other candidates. You are experienced and knowledgeable, reliable, adaptable and would relish the opportunity to step up and show them that you would make an excellent choice for the position. Think of examples of when you have done something particularly well as you may be asked how you handle a particular situation. Emphasise that you have learned a great deal in the time that you have been there and now want to continue building a career in an environment which you enjoy and are suited to. What are your ambitions? Could you see yourself as the Manager one day? Would you be comfortable in giving direction to colleagues who were your equal? How would they respond to you being in charge of them? Why do you really want the job? Although it is fine to mention that you have growing responsibilities (family, mortgage etc), the overriding point to put across is that you KNOW that you can do a good job and are ready to take on the added responsibility. Needing the promotion is often different to wanting it because you are ready for a new challenge!

 

Be prepared to give a good confident assessment of your strong points (and areas where you have had to improve). Smile and look positive and show that you are listening to what they have to say.

 

Good Luck!

[vixsta14]

Sounds like your manager has failed to give you any constructive feedback at all. You could ask your manager for a meeting and ask him/her to elaborate on the feedback given so you can take something constructive away from what was said. I would also suggest keeping a record of everything you do that you could consider "above and beyond" Maybe you could also ask your line manager to put a development plan in place and maybe let you spend some time shadowing somone in your desired role. This should demonstrate committment and a desire to to well which can only be a good thing, and try and stay positive... I know its often disheatening but if you want to get ther you will!

 

Also before I forget try and add why you would like the promotion, try to avoid saying that you need it for monetary reasons. Your employer may be concerned that the added responsibility may bring added stress so prove them wrong.

[poppynurse]

How did it go?

[manofsteel]

First of all, thanks you for all the feedback, they have been fantastic and given me confidence.

Interview with HR manager yersterday went well i thought, was bit casual interview not very formal, good half an our chat with hr manager. He said next he will get feedback from my manager and then perhaps set up another interview with another manager i.e operations.

Just wanna add, i have not discussed with my manager since i gave him my letter just mentioned to him yesterday i had one-to-one with HR. Do you think now its the right time to ask my manager for appointment to show him why i am can do this job and my strengths or should i wait for him to see me. What do you think.

 

also one question that was asked by HR which i did not think i answered positively in hindsight was ' what will you do if you don't get the job' i didn't know how to reply to that and replied ' i ill just put it behind me and move on' now i think this reply was bit defensive should have had a positive response.

 

also in interview i did not mention the manager's comment you knwo that one 'if i was you i wouldn't even bother' but i noted recently my manager has changed is tune and when i gave him my application letter he said well you are entitled to it, is he covering himself.

[vixsta14]

Its possible that he has but you need to prove his original comment wrong. I can't see why HR have to get feedback from your manager, that seems a "round the houses" way of doing things. I would still suggest seeking feedback from your manager yourself. From this you should be able to enhance your skills and identify any areas of development, at least then you should know where you stand, and more importantly know what you need to do the land the promotion next time.

[manofsteel]

Ok, i will contact manager tommorow to make an appointment with him later in the afternoon. The fact is that how do i prove his comments and is it advisable to raise any grievience over his comment since the last thing i want to do his disturb our working relationship and manager may take it wrongly if i was to convey my grievience to hr and he finds out.

 

also is it advisable to have voice recorder for future and use that evidence if in future i get any **** from anybody i.e discriminatory remarks, etc.

[Sidewinder]

Keep plugging away and you will get what you deserve.

 

I don't think that you answered the question wrongly about "what will you do if you don't get the job?". There are no right or wrong answers - the interviewer wants to know whether you will sulk and be difficult working under the candidate who does get the job, or whether you will show the strength and determination to improve your experience and continue to be a valuable employee. I suppose that a textbook answer would be something like "I would congratulate the person who does get the job and try to learn from him to be in a better position to succeed next time I am given the opportunity for promotion", but what you have said is that you will continue to work hard with no resentment at not being successful this time around, which is still a reasonable answer.

 

Personally I wouldn't raise a grievance at this stage. However much you resent his comments in the past you need him to see you in a positive light at this time. I would therefore ask for an honest assessment of your abilities and take note of what he says. Of course you may disagree, but try to do so in a way which does not turn the conversation into an argument.

 

Voice recorders in everyday business are a little impractical. You can't really have one recording all of the time and people will soon be on their guard if you are seen to be using one. Far better to make a note at the time of anything which is said and to then ask the person concerned for a chat to question what he said. That may then be the time to have a device to record things, and most mobile phones have this facility as a 'one touch' option, which can be useful.

[manofsteel]

Update:

I have'nt had a chance to talk to my manager after the HR interview, he has gone in holidays till mid-july. Since giving him my letter of application he has acknowedged my application but get the feeling he rather not talk about it.

I also suspect the replacement for the position might already have been found since begining of june, i know this because i read this in a minutes of a meeting of head of depts beginning june. And i think i aplied in second week of june, though the negative feedback from manager would have before or in begining of june.

So any take on this, offcourse i wait for manager to come back. Should i be talking to HR about my application meanwhiile

[Sidewinder]

Who will actually be making the appointment? HR or the Manager? Were you given any indication at the interview as to when you might expect to hear whether you were successful or not?

[manofsteel]

Well HR said he will take it to the next stage which means sit down with my manager before he tells me the outcome. i have to make my own meeting with manager when he comes back.