Robinson Way chasing old debt

[Floppy Poppet]

Hi,

I am new to this forum and could do with some good advice please?

Robinson and Way & Co.

In January 2001 My partner took out a loan with HFC we made one payment and then defaulted. We are not sure whether we contacted them in that time with an Income and Expenditure form. We forgot all about it as we moved around a few times. Then two weeks ago they found us, we think through applying online for other loans. My partner had a default against his name for this, which has since been removed due to the time scale. They have now sent us a Court N9A form. The amount owing was £8805.88 for a £5000 loan, they have since decided to add another £5161.09 as interest plus daily intrest of £1.93. They want to take us to court which will also be a court fee £190 plus Solicitors costs of £100. As this is debt is so old can they do this? Also we have only had a couple of weeks notice from the first letter to the Court letter. I know I am not much help but we really cant remember when we had or if we had any correspondence a few years ago so we are not sure if we agreed to pay an agreed sum.

Thankyou so much for any help in advance.

FP.

Edited May 29, 2008 by Floppy Poppet
bad spelling

[steven4064]

Hi FP

 

Welcome to CAG

 

So the last communication you had with anyone about this debt was in 2001?

 

If that is the case you can tell them to get lost because it is time barred under section 5 of the Limitations Act 1980.

 

I think you should try and find old correspondence if you can as dates could be important here.

 

I'm moving this post to a new thread so help to you doesn't get mixed up with van's

[Floppy Poppet]

Hi Steven,

Thanks for replying so quickly. We cant find anything, but then again I am no secretary and very un organised in the letter department. Stupid I know but it has been so long we really cannot remember if we have had any contact with them. Is there any way we could find out, tho not wanting to alert them?

Thanks

FP

[steven4064]

They have contacted you so they are already alerted.

 

Send them letter 'N' from http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

In the first sentence add the word 'alleged' before the first occurence of the word 'agreement' and, at the end of the first sentence, add:

plus a statement of account signed on behalf of Robinson Way and showing:

 

(a) the total sum paid under the alleged agreement by me;

 

(b) the total sum which has become payable under the alleged agreement by me but remains unpaid, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date when each became due; and

 

© the total sum which is to become payable under the alleged agreement by me, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date, or mode of determining the date, when each becomes due.

At the top of the letter (above the 'dear sir') centred and in bold "I do not acknowledge any debt to your company"

 

This will show if they have any right to collect the debt - if they have a copy of the agreement (if they haven't, they cannot collect on it) and if there have been any payments in the last 6 years (if there haven't been then it is time barred)

Edited May 29, 2008 by steven4064

[Floppy Poppet]

Thanks again Steven. Even if they can prove it which we doubt, what could happen then? We will have to ask for an extension on the Court letter as it is due back next week.

[ODC]

Wait until you get something in writing back from RWC. If the statements they are obliged to provide show that in fact NO payment was made for a period of six years then tis alleged debt is Statute Barred and cannot be enforced through ANY courts

[nicklea]

You said that you got a n9a form - did you get this from the court?

 

It sounds as though you have already admitted the debt.

 

Have you had anything before this form from the court saying that a claim was being made against you.

 

You need to respond to court forms in time otherwise they can get a default judgment made against you regardless of the fact that it might be statute barred

[nicklea]

Forgot to ask, has the n9a form been completed in the top right hand corner with name of court and claim number?

 

If it has then that means that they have issued a claim against you in the court.

 

Only complete form n9a if you admit the debt.

 

You should have received a claim form as well. Could you type up what it says in the box called Particulars of Claim (leaving out any personal information)

 

This should also give you some information on what to do:-

 

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex303.pdf

Edited May 29, 2008 by nicklea
added link

[Rahl]

Did you get another form a N9B ? You have to send that to them I think ( if your defending it, which you should .. as its statue barred), you have to defend this claim or they'll win , as mentioned above.

 

No letter before action, no default notice .. statute barred ... they got no chance.

[Rahl]

Do an acknowledgement of service to give you a bit more time, and send them (robinson way) a cca request and a cpr18 letter .

[Floppy Poppet]

Thanks ODC. We cannot remember if we paid any token payments, if we did have they got us and we have to pay?

[Floppy Poppet]

Hi Nicklea,

All we were sent was a letter from RWC on the 4/04/08, telling us that is was going to Court if not paid within 7 days. We have just applied online for a 28 day extension but they asked if we were fighting the whole claim, which we ticked yes. And yes the Court form has a claim number and Court name. I dont think we have much hope now, will we be stung for the whole amount of 14k? Thanks for your help.

[Floppy Poppet]

Hi Rahl,

Yes we did get a N9B. What is a CCA request and a CPR18 letter please? Thanks for ur help.

[Rahl]

CPR 18 letter :

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION UNDER THE CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES S [ 18 ].

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I have received the Court claim filed by your Company. To enable me to file a defence and counter-claim, I require specific information regarding the account to be provided forthwith. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below. This letter supersedes the CCA request made to on the **DATE**. The information must be furnished by the **DATE**, which gives you ten days to provide what has been requested. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

a. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, repayments and payments and both the original amount of the loan and any repayments made to it the account.

b. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations

c. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with **CREDITOR**.

d. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

e. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

f. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

g. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

h. A genuine copy of any deed of assignment, or proof that you have a legal right to this money.

i. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

j. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

4. A copy of your complaints procedure, as required by the Consumer Credit Act 2006.

5. Clarification of the date you acquired the debt, what organisation you acquired it from, their registered office, their company number (if any) and what legal title they had to this debt, and what credit license number they had at the time that the debt was purchased or entered into.

 

I will require this information within the next ten days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I await your rapid response.

 

Yours Faithfully,

 

----

 

CCA request and statute barred letter are here :

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

Letters N and M

 

Send them by special delivery, do not sign any of these letters, make copies of all you send , add 'I do not acknowledge any debt to your company' at the top of the cca and statute barred letters .

[rippedoffagain]

Beat me to it.

[Rahl]

I wonder about this line thou :

 

"This letter supersedes the CCA request made to on the **DATE** "

 

Because you do not want it to supercede the cca request, you want it in addition to .

 

So, although that is the default cpr18 letter , if I were you i'd delete that line from the letter above or change it to :

 

"This letter is in accompaniment to the CCA request and statute barred notification made on the **DATE**

 

---

 

Don't worry that your asking for the cca twice, they do not have to supply the cca under the cpr unless the judge orders it, but under the cca request {s77/78} they have to comply . Don't need to fill in your defence yet if you acknowledge service but you need to send these 3 letters off asap.

 

 

oops. forgot . Use a postal order for the £1 stat fee for the cca req. No cheques .

Edited May 29, 2008 by Rahl

[steven4064]

Rahl is right, as proceedings have started, you should send a Part 18 request. But you should add the wording from my post #4 after item 1. This will show whether any payments have been made within the 6 years (and what other charges may have been added) The wording is straight out of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Your CCA request should have the bits I added in post #4 for the same reasons

 

We also need to start thinking about your defence. The main points will be:

 

1. No LBA means that pre-action protocols were not followed (naughty, naughty)

 

2. No default notice means no right of action - they are not allowed to bring the cliam by virtue of s87 CCA 1974

 

3. No executed agreement means you are 'embarassed' because you haven't a clue what they are on about - they have not demonstrated cause of action

 

4. No assignment notice means they haven't shown they have the right to even collect the debt (who are these people anyway?)

 

5. No statement of account means you are embarassed because you have no idea where the amount of the claim comes from - they have not demonstrated cause of action

 

6. The amount probably contains some unlawful charges - these cannot be claimed from you unless they demonstrate they are lawful and that would mean HFC disclosing their costs (which they would die rather than do)

 

7. Possibly, the claim is over 6 years old anyway and is therefore statute barred

 

I think we can make a strong case on these grounds (we can base it on a pt2537 special )

[Floppy Poppet]

Hi Rahl,

Thanks again. I know this sounds really dumb, but can I send all 3 letters in one envelope or 3 seperate ones? Thanks for the advice about not signing as we did!!! So we will remove those and no cheques.

FP.

[Floppy Poppet]

Hi Steven,

Thanks for your advice.

[ODC]

Its quite okay to send them all at once. Recorded delivery. No Cheques. Do not sign anything

[Floppy Poppet]

Thanks ODC.

[Floppy Poppet]

Its 8 days today since sending the letters to Robinson and Way, we still have not heard anything! So fingers crossed.

[Floppy Poppet]

They were given their letters on the 3 rd of June, but we still have not heard anything? We have to return our court papers by the 24th of this month. I am not sure of what to do at the moment, any help please? Thanks.

Edited June 18, 2008 by Floppy Poppet
Spelling

[steven4064]

FP

 

I notice that you were given quite a bit of advice about what to send but I can't see what you actually sent in the end. WHat did you send to RW?

 

And the court papers you have to return by the 24th - is that your defence? If it is, you could do with getting that done now anyway withoutwaiting for RW to reply - they are completely ignorant and probably won't reply.

 

I outlined a defence in post #17

[Floppy Poppet]

Hi Steven,

Thanks for replying. I was told to send 3 different letters (they are on the thread) Do you think I should just return the court papers? Do I add a note that RW have not contacted me in the 10 days they were given?