1st Credit moving for CCJ for house charge order

[veryweary]

Hello,

My very first post and hoping someone will advise. Due to severe ill health, lost extremely well paid job some years ago, Ended up with huge debts. Ignorance took me on usual route of refinancing, even adding to our morgage to no avail, debts just got worse.

 

But 4 years ago started a DMP with CCCS our remaining debt is divided between I'm embarassed to say 10 other creditors., all unsecured debts who've so far accepted our repayments which are always made on time.

 

Now letter from 1st Credit who say they have been assigned a credit card debt for £2100, which has suddenly become £2300 from HFC . Never been informed by HFC debt was being tranferred to 1st Credit but unsure if Default notice ever sent. 1st Credit said a DCA can add admin charges under T &C, I don'tr believe this tho..

 

 

Now got standard letter from thier solicitor LCS, saying County Court action will start in 14 days.

 

Understand that with evidence of DMP they may not be awarded a higher repayment sum, as nothing left after paying bills and debt repayment, that bit is not the problem.

 

But our mortgage provider does not allow any 2nd interest in property and I'm worried that we could lose our morgage facility if charge order is granted. and also what other implications a charge order has.

 

Always been willing to repay debts and accept shouldn't have got into debt in first place, but to avoid a CCJ and charge order would it be worth trying to ask for CCA, and other relevant documents.

 

Really unsure what to do for the best, all I want for them is to accept my CCCS offer of repayment. So upset that this pressure is all starting again despite my best efforts, and it is now affecting my health badly.

Edited August 17, 2008 by veryweary
personal info removed for security

[sosumi]

Yes you should CCA them veryweary. Don't be embarrassed about your debts - we all know here how things can spiral out of control. As you say, you've been paying them through CCCS anyway.

I CANNOT BELIEVE 1st Credit!!!:x:x

First rule is NEVER NEVER NEVER speak to them on the phone!! They will say anything to depress, demean and humiliate you.

Keep posting here, it will be okay and you will soon start to feel better about them (and probably as angry with them as many of us here!)

Well done for posting xx

[42man]

YES send them a CCA request ASAP, send it by recorded, add a £1 postal order to it and don't hand sign it !!! Also I have to ask have you reclaimed any of the excessive charges on any/all of the accounts ?

[veryweary]

Many thanks for advice greatly appreciated. Have found template for CCA and will post out as per instructions on Monday.

 

Have never reclaimed any charges on accounts tho remember there were multiple late, overlimit fees applied to them all for months before CCCS repayment plan started.

 

Know now from reading on forum , not to phone them but they keep sending letters asking me to contact them, each time on a slightly different number. On the occasions I had phoned them all they were interested in was my house and mortgage, in amongst threats of bailiffs, and belittling me for being in debt.

 

CCCS have confirmed they have refused repayment offer, tho payments have been made to them direct from CCCS.

 

1stCredit have our financial breakdown from CCCS so know our budget is bare minimum tight. Income comes from work ill health pension. And that repayment amount is decided and split fairly amongst all creditors by CCCS. Feel sure they after C.O and CCJ to enable C.O. as repayments will take a while and I'm not a spring chicken!.

Edited August 17, 2008 by veryweary

[babybear39]

Hi veryweary, welcome to CAG.

 

You're in the right place now to get the best possible help and advice you need to put 1st credit in thier place.

 

Have they accepted the payments from CCCS or have they returned them? If they have acccepted them they are deemed to have accepted the agreement.

 

They're on dodgy ground here as they're breaking a number of OFT guidlines:

 

Physical/psychological harassment

2.5 Putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive.

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. contacting debtors at unreasonable times and at unreasonable intervals

b. pressurising debtors to sell property, to raise funds by further

borrowing or to extend their borrowing

c. using more than one debt collection business at the same time

resulting in repetitive and/or frequent contact by different parties

d. not ensuring that an adequate history of the debt is passed on as

appropriate resulting in repetitive and/or frequent contact by different

parties

e. not informing the debtor when their case has been passed on to a

different debt collector

f. pressurising debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large instalments,

or to increase payments when they are unable to do so

g. making threatening statements or gestures or taking actions which

suggest harm to debtors

 

Deceptive and/or unfair methods

2.7 Dealings with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair.

2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. sending demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that

they are the debtor in question, for example, threatening debt recovery

action to 'the occupier' or sending a payment demand to all people sharing

the same name/date of birth as a debtor in the hope that contact with the

correct debtor will be made.

b. disclosing debt details to an individual when it is uncertain that they are

the debtor in question, for example, disclosing details to 'the occupier' of

an address.

c. refusing to deal with appointed or authorised third parties, such

as Citizens Advice Bureaux, independent advice centres or money

advisers

d. contacting debtors directly and bypassing their appointed representatives

e. operating a policy, without reason, of refusing to negotiate with

debt management companies

 

Here's the full OFT guidlines:

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf

 

I've highlighted the relevant sections to your circumstances and you should continue to ask CCCS to act on your behalf.

 

DO NOT PHONE 1st credit, and if they call you, say politely "in writting only" and hang up.

 

As has been mentioned CCA them and also check for charges on all your accounts.

 

Good luck and best wishes.

[sillygirl1]

As you're in a repayment plan they shouldn't be chasing you at all - they are trying it on. You need to report them to Trading Standards (your one and THEIR one to stop TS passing the buck between departments). CCCS should also send them a letter stating you have other creditors.

 

You shouldn't really send them an income and expenditure form unless CCCS have done so already - let CCCS do the work for a change... but sadly they will probably say admit the debt and get the CCJ. As you are on a low income they could end up getting a token £1 payment - in fact all your creditors should be made the token offer if they up the pressure.

[veryweary]

Thanks and will follow up T. S. complaint links after I've done my CCCA letter request.

 

1st Credit have received at least 1 payment direct from CCCS for April, altho somehow the o/s balance on their latest letter has been reduced by 3 of monthly payments, perhaps 2 payments made to HFC transferred to them?.

 

Letter from CCCS says they will continue making payments, but 1stCredit have told them they are unable to accept reduced payment offered because larger payment required. Also told DCA don't have to accept reduced payments at any time. CCCS always send DCA financial breakdowns and lists of other debtors and payment amounts.

 

CCCS advise I don't need to take any action at this time, as 1stCredit may pass debt onto another DCA., and to contact them again if CCJ proceedings start for further advice.

 

But after reading about 1stCredit on this forum, don't think I can take risk waitng for CCJ to go thru uncontested, if CO issued later against house may lose mortgage facility from RBS.

 

So sending CCA letter tomorrow, but do I have to also write to LCS solicors acting for 1stCredit advising them that I've sent CCA request to 1stCredit, as they may start court proceedings before 12 day time limit for CCA request is up?

 

hope this all makes sense!

thanks

[babybear39]

Copy your request and send it to LCS to cover yourself. Send everything recorded and NEVER sign anything, just print your name. Use a £1 postal order for the fee keeping a note of the number to check if they cash it.

 

As for a CO affecting your mortgage terms this is highly unlikely to happen especially as that would give 1st crudit preferential treatment over all your other creditors who are co-operating with CCCS.

[Deshaine]

Hi veryweary, welcome to CAG.

 

You're in the right place now to get the best possible help and advice you need to put 1st credit in thier place.

 

Have they accepted the payments from CCCS or have they returned them? If they have acccepted them they are deemed to have accepted the agreement.

 

 

 

.

 

Just as a point of note, the creditor accepting CCCS payment is not proof of acceptance of an arrangement. In fact, they are required by law to accept this payment and apportion it to your account. Even if a creditor refuses to accept the payment, the CCCS tend to continue to send it anyway.

 

Once your credit agreement is received (if at all), check the fine print for these so-called admin fees, they can only add fees if specifically stated on the agreement.

 

Should they continue to push for a CCJ, you can defend it, and I would recommend you request that the hearing be transferred to a local court wherever possible so that you can represent yourself in person, though you can submit your defense in writing via the court issued defense forms - often creditors will use the nearest county court to where their peferred solicitors are based. It may not be the case with your creditor, but it is worth taking into account.

 

If a charge IS granted, then it will not effect your mortgage in any way, shape or form. Your mortgage, and any other secured loans will rank higher, in order of when they were applied. When you sell your property however, if it doesn't cover the full outstanding debt from all charges, then the creditors who will not receive full payment of balance may request some sort of confirmation that you have obtained the best possible market price for your property. This is normally done via the conveyancing estate agent, who will rpovide a signed 'Best Price Certificate'.

 

The purpose of this, by the way, is for the creditors to ensure that you are not trying to get a quick sale, or selling to a relative/friend etc.. for less than full market value.

 

I hope the above is useful.

Edited May 12, 2008 by Deshaine

[veryweary]

[

 
quote=Deshaine;.

If a charge IS granted, then it will not effect your mortgage in any way, shape or form. [/quote]

thanks for all comments, have learned so much in just a few days. Was concerned because remember reading in T &C of mortgage offer something about bank not allowing 2nd interest or securities on property. Worried that a successful C.O on property could mean I've broken terms and conditions of mortgage and bank could withdraw mortgage facility. Can't find paperwork to get exact words so haveasked bank to send out copy of T&C's.

 

Also as repayments will take many years, creditor could technically ask court to force house sale?.

 

Last year received letter from HFC offering an interest free loan for 60%repayment of this debt, said it got me off their bad debt books and made them look better. Couldn't pay as they needed extra £2 per month and CCCS can't increase payments to single creditor, so now they've assigned to 1stCredit without telling me..

 

 

 

Thanks again to all the wonderful people on this site who are so supportive and give their time to help others. It's made a huge difference to me.

Edited July 18, 2008 by veryweary

[veryweary]

Sent CCA request to 1stCredit 12/5, have electronic proof of receipt. Received letter from1stCredit 17/5 with big letters YOU HAVE RAISED A DISPUTE/QUERY very carefully saying they have received my letter of dispute, but no mention or confrmation that I've requested a CCA.

 

Goes on to say that unless querying full balance to contact them to discuss payment of the debt amount I accept is due and payable.

 

Are they playing a word game here, do I have to write again reminding them I've requested a CCA, or do I just wait. Concerned that this leaves it open for them to start other proceedings.

 

Also received mortgage T&C which states 'No other standard security or legal charge in favour of another lender is permitted. You must not allow another lender to secure another loan on your home without our consent.'

 

So if 1stCredit are successful in gaining a C.O on house, I'm sure I'll lose mortgage facility.

[babybear39]

The term "without our consent" may help you re: your mortgage company, but I really don't think it'll come to that.

 

As previously mentioned, you being in a DMP and your other unsecured creditors playing fair leaves 1st credit looking very bad as they are trying to scare you with threats which would mean they want a very unfair advantage by threatening you with a possible CCJ and then going for a charging order.

 

Contact CCCS ASAP and INSIST they help you. Also contact Trading Standards and make a complaint about their tactics, both yours and thiers, so there is no passing the buck.

[veryweary]

An update. 1stCred have serioulsy defaulted in providing anything whatsoever in response to my CCA copy request, and I've now sent them a formal complaint. They replied with a pre-legal letter, threatening court proceedings, charging order and possible bankruptcy..

 

Consumer Direct have put a complaint in on my behalf with TS in Reigate.

Now in process of writing compaint to OFT, complete with a taped conversation where an advsior sadly breaks more than a few OFT debt collecting guidelines. I hope when the OFT listen to it, they get a taste of how greedy and misleading this company are.

I urge anyone having problems with this company to complain, as the OFT told me if they receive complaints about any of the 13 compnaies they've warned then it means big trouble. Not that I am inferring that 1stCredit are one of the 13.

 

In my case 1stCred see homeowner and equity, in the taped conversation, their advisor cheerfully explains that the reason they want the charging order is so they can apply for further interest and charges.

The only thing stopping them so far I think is the fact they don't have my agreement. And I've read on here that they sometimes still issue proceedings without providing the CCA just to chance their arm on a default judgement.

 

I'm no longer afraid of them thank to this site, my only concern is my unreliable heart and health let me down at a crtiical moment, and things end up pear shaped because of that. So I guess I better get prepared in advance , my thanks to all the people who have posted threads aobut their CCJ and Charging Order battles, gives someone like me a chance to learn how to fight back.

[babybear39]

Good for you getting the numpties making their horrible threats on tape. I hope the OFT throws the book at them

[Sol]

They probably won't be able to act on it if permission wasn't given unfortunately.

[palomino]

Don't need their permission.

[babybear39]

They probably won't be able to act on it if permission wasn't given unfortunately.

 

A private individual doesn't need permission to record harassing calls

[Freewilling]

Sending you legal proceeding letter after the you have raised adispute letter is standard procedure for 1st credit. and nothing to be really worried about, i know i am a bit late with this. Veryweary kudos to you, you last post is both confident and optimistic keep us posted.

[Sol]

A private individual doesn't need permission to record harassing calls

 

I know, but do you not need permission to send it to a third party?

[babybear39]

Trading Standards and the OFT can advise on that point.

[veryweary]

Trading Standards and the OFT can advise on that point.

 

Thanks Babybear for keeping an eye on my thread. Have read your thread on the battle you had with these vermin and I salute you. TS have told me to do a written transcript of the call and hand it in with all my other paperwork. A very enthusiatic young gentleman is going to look at my case in relation to the new CPUTR legislation. Hopefully if TS keep getting a stream of complaints about this company, something will be done.

 

As I also have letter from 1stCredit confirming they know they can't enforce a debt without producing the agreement, it seems stupid of them to have sent more letters threatening court action and bankruptcy. And that phone call is naughty. Wish I'd asked what the interest rate on that refinancing package they recommend would be for someone like me:shock:.

 

Thanks Freewilling, have reconciled myself that I will probably have to fight 1stCredit in court at some later stage, probably if they come up with an application form with no prescribed terms, and chance it. But I'll hopefully be ready for them, and it will just cost them money in lost fees and my expenses:D.

 

This forum and the many members who regularly devote their time to help others are just inspiring. I've made a committment to make a small donation each month in way of thanks, every little helps:D.

[babybear39]

Glad to hear you've got TS on your side Veryweary as sometimes they need a little encouragement

 

Please post back when they give their opinion re: CPUTR 2008, as this will prove very useful to the whole forum.