Help! - AMEX No CCA and they've started court action. **DISCONTINUED**

[humbleman]

CP

 

Theses Judges have a mind of their own.

 

bet you any monies if you were not present, he would have awarded a judgment against you,

[Cunning Plan]

Hi Humbleman,

 

I know what you mean but to be fair to the judge he was critical of the claimant on several counts. I can only assume he wants to see their representative in court to tell them in person what he thinks of their disregard of court instructions.

[Cunning Plan]

Update:

 

Contacted the court to find out the latest as the claimant hasn't provided the information as directed by the court they're now 6 weeks over the deadline and I must admit to feeling helpless here. If I'd had instructions from the court I would have made darn sure I would have supplied the requested information.

Anyway the case has now been scheduled for a Case Conference sometime in the new year. Not what I wanted to hear but hey that's how our system works!

 

Any advice on my next move greatly received and scales will be clicked with gusto.

 

CP

[tiokim]

still nothing?

[angel_1]

hey tiokim

 

im sure some experienced cag member will come along soon to see what your next action should be, anyway good luck lets hope it could be good news for you

 

ciao for now maz

[Cunning Plan]

Update:

 

All quiet I'm afraid. The case is due to be heard in the new year, possibly February or March.

AMEX still haven't responded to the court instructions to provide the information requested, the deadline was August.

I'm looking at the 'unless order' route as suggested by Tinkerbell. They have ignored the court and not provided the details asked for and ordered by the judge.

 

CP

[citizenB]

Would it be worth writing to the court, advising them that Amex have not complied with a court order to provide information. You are due to attend a court for a Case Conference and fear you will be unprepared without the necessary paperwork. Amex, frustrating your ability to defend yourself, etc. Include copies of the Judge's instructions to Amex.

 

Perhaps other CAGers will be able to advise you better.

[beanpole]

Hi there,

sorry it's dragging on for you CP.

Given the much overdue deadline, can you not apply to to the Court for an 'Unless Order'.

I know it involves a fee, but if possible, should be worth it...no documents, no case surely ?

most other cases seem to have a judge giving max 28 days to comply, so why can't such an application be made ?

regards

BP

ps started another thread of my own with an AMEX/CSL farce - any advice welcomed !

[Cunning Plan]

Hi Fellow CAG'ers.

 

Just a quick update:

 

Still waiting to hear from the court regards the directions hearing. Was suggested it would be Feb / March but that now seems unlikely.

 

I took advice on the 'unless' route and was told to wait until the hearing then hit them with the request in front of the judge. This would be dealt with there and then by the judge and avoid the fee.

 

If I don't get a hearing date within the next ten days I'll invest in the court fee for the 'unless' route.

 

CP

[Desperate Daniella]

subscribing.

 

Good luck.

 

DD

[foolishgirl]

Cunning Plan, CunningPlan

[Cunning Plan]

Thanks Foolishgirl,

 

I must admit using the hearing to lob another spanner in the works ie: the Unless Order seems a good ploy. The friend who advised me has used this tactic several times - not always for unless orders but other things too, and its worked a treat. Obviously no guarantee but worth watching the opposition squirm!

 

I'll keep you posted.

 

CP

[Cunning Plan]

Update:

 

Its a good one. But I need to respond quickly due to a pending court hearing.

 

AMEX and their legal begals have written to me to say.

 

'Upon consideration of this matter and in an attempt to save further time and costs our client is, on a without prejudice basis, prepared to agree with you that their above claim be dismissed, on the basis that there be no Order as to Costs'

 

So I / We (CAG) have WON.

 

But a few questions. The Consent Order they've sent has two points

1: Their claim be dismissed.

2: There be no Order for Costs.

 

If I agree to point 2 does that mean I can't go after them for the time I've had off work to go to court (one case conference already) and the hours spent dealing with paperwork?

 

OK my gut feeling is to sign and let the matter rest but I will bow to others knowledge on this point.

 

They want me to contact them asap to avoid going to another court hearing scheduled shortly.

 

CP.

[beanpole]

Hi CP, I hope this is great news for you. Congrats.

I don't know for sure, but it does appear that you will have to waive rights to cover any of your costs.

 

From what I have seen elsewhere, my only thought is that if you 'agree', then be very careful and clear that them giving up is reflected officially through the court....just getting a letter from them does not necessarily stop court action unless you have confirmation through the legal process.

As I said, hopefully others better versed than I, will be along soon to confirm what steps you should take to put an end to it all.

...in the meantime, well done.

BP

[Desperate Daniella]

CP,

 

This sounds absolutely brilliant!!!

 

Personally I would grab it and write off the time spent, but of course I am a wimp who does not want her day in court at all, so I would be jumping up and down with glee.

 

Others may think you should take them on further, but maybe if you don't accept they could push on. I doubt if very much, but I suppose they could.

 

I'd be more concerned about getting them to agree to remove any defaults (if you have them).

 

I am sooooo pleased for you.

 

DD

[Alphageek]

Good work CP.

 

Mine is still dragging on and on and on... not fast are they?

[Monty2007]

Update:

 

Its a good one. But I need to respond quickly due to a pending court hearing.

 

AMEX and their legal begals have written to me to say.

 

'Upon consideration of this matter and in an attempt to save further time and costs our client is, on a without prejudice basis, prepared to agree with you that their above claim be dismissed, on the basis that there be no Order as to Costs'

 

So I / We (CAG) have WON.

 

But a few questions. The Consent Order they've sent has two points

1: Their claim be dismissed.

2: There be no Order for Costs.

 

If I agree to point 2 does that mean I can't go after them for the time I've had off work to go to court (one case conference already) and the hours spent dealing with paperwork?

 

OK my gut feeling is to sign and let the matter rest but I will bow to others knowledge on this point.

 

They want me to contact them asap to avoid going to another court hearing scheduled shortly.

 

CP.

 

Congratulations CP. This is the first case I have come across where Brachers have caved in like this, very odd but great for you!

 

Can you provide more details as to what happened at your case conference? This may be key for the rest of us.

[foolishgirl]

Update:

 

Its a good one. But I need to respond quickly due to a pending court hearing.

 

AMEX and their legal begals have written to me to say.

 

'Upon consideration of this matter and in an attempt to save further time and costs our client is, on a without prejudice basis, prepared to agree with you that their above claim be dismissed, on the basis that there be no Order as to Costs'

 

So I / We (CAG) have WON.

 

But a few questions. The Consent Order they've sent has two points

1: Their claim be dismissed.

2: There be no Order for Costs.

 

If I agree to point 2 does that mean I can't go after them for the time I've had off work to go to court (one case conference already) and the hours spent dealing with paperwork?

 

OK my gut feeling is to sign and let the matter rest but I will bow to others knowledge on this point.

 

They want me to contact them asap to avoid going to another court hearing scheduled shortly.

 

CP.

 

Well it sounds good at first glance CP as they obviously can't produce the CCA & would be in breach of the court order if they turned up again without it.

 

However be very wary with consent orders. They are not always what they seem. The 'no order as to costs' bit means that each party has to bear his own costs of the part of the proceedings to which the order relates whatever costs order the court makes at the end of the proceedings. It does not mean that costs cannot be claimed.

 

If you agree to an application for a consent order you should also agree a figure for costs to be inserted in the order so that there can be no further claims.

 

I suspect that Amex may be seeking this order to get it discontinued 'by the back door' & then hit you with a good chunk of their legal bill. You would also be able to claim your costs in the event of their discontinuence as their action would have been vexatious etc. with little chance of succeeding.

 

It looks as though they have no CCA. If it was me I'd go to court & get it thrashed out properly with a judgment against them, then go for your costs.

 

I've not had much experience with COs but suggest you get further advice before you accept carte blanche.

[Monty2007]

Well it sounds good at first glance CP as they obviously can't produce the CCA & would be in breach of the court order if they turned up again without it.

 

However be very wary with consent orders. They are not always what they seem. The 'no order as to costs' bit means that each party has to bear his own costs of the part of the proceedings to which the order relates whatever costs order the court makes at the end of the proceedings. It does not mean that costs cannot be claimed.

 

If you agree to an application for a consent order you should also agree a figure for costs to be inserted in the order so that there can be no further claims.

 

I suspect that Amex may be seeking this order to get it discontinued 'by the back door' & then hit you with a good chunk of their legal bill. You would also be able to claim your costs in the event of their discontinuence as their action would have been vexatious etc. with little chance of succeeding.

 

It looks as though they have no CCA. If it was me I'd go to court & get it thrashed out properly with a judgment against them, then go for your costs.

 

I've not had much experience with COs but suggest you get further advice before you accept carte blanche.

 

I agree with your fist piece of advice but not the second. This is a victory and Amex/Brachers are agreeing to discontinue if each party accepts their own costs so providing the OP gets the wording correct (i.e. there will be no further claims either for the disputed account OR costs), then this will prevent further litigation for costs.

[foolishgirl]

You summed it up perfectly monty - 'so providing the OP gets the wording correct'.

 

My message was just 'be aware, be very careful'.

[Monty2007]

You summed it up perfectly monty - 'so providing the OP gets the wording correct'.

 

My message was just 'be aware, be very careful'.

 

Thanks FG, we are in agreement. I am sure pt or one of the site team can provide something that others have used since this type of agreement will have been executed before.

 

I would just advise against pushing Amex or Brachers any further if you have what looks like a fantastic victory. There is a lot going on with Amex at the moment in my own case and others - I will post up more on my own case when I am able to do so. Beware that Amex and Brachers monitor this site. Be in no doubt about that.

Edited February 22, 2009 by Monty2007

[Cunning Plan]

Hello Again,

 

I've a fax copy of the Consent Order which reads:

 

Before District Judge

Upon Reading the consent of the parties endorsed hereon

And By Consent

It Is Ordered That:

 

1: The claimant's claim under Part 7 of the Civil Procedure Rules issued under Claim Number xxxxxxxxxxxx in respect of account number xxxxxxxxx be dismissed.

 

2: There be no Order for Costs.

 

We agree to an order in the above terms

 

Then there is both parties names and addresses and a space for signatures.

 

 

Does this end the case completely? Advice please.

 

CP

[zhanzhibar]

Congratulation CP. What a brilliant news.. another one down eh:D

 

Zhan

[louloujs]

Congratulations! It's late in the day but I'm subscribing to this thread for when I need an uplifting boost during my time on the Amex/DCA/Solicitor merry-go-round.

 

LL

[Cunning Plan]

Hi Louloujs,

 

Thank you but I couldn't have done it without the help of this site.

When court paperwork drops on your doormat you certainly miss a heart beat... or three. CAG has been fantastic and highlights that in many cases the big boys don't play by the rules and push their luck hoping we don't know the law and what we can do.

 

Once I have all the paperwork with the Ts crossed and Is dotted I'll post up more information in the hope it will help others. In this case a few small, but vital, errors were made which strengthened my defence.

 

CP