Cabot/Morgan Solicitors-Court Action (ex Goldfish account)

[Rhia]

Very good. Was hoping that would happen. Cabot has ridden rough shod over, not only the consumer, but court protocols for far too long. This is one judge who has clearly had enough.

[barns66]

Hi Hadituptohere + Rhia

Thanks for your replys,it will be a very interesting 16/17 days to see what they come up with.I thought if they had what the court asked for,they should easily produced in the month they where given.I will be very interested in what they can produce with the extra month.I will post on here if i get anything from the court or hear from Cabot or Morgans.

barns66

[Rhia]

Iill still put money on their not being able to produce anything these Goldfish cases are notoriously lacking in paperwork.

[cymruambyth]

Iill still put money on their not being able to produce anything these Goldfish cases are notoriously lacking in paperwork.

 

Hurray:-)

[creditcardmug]

well done, they should discontinue soon, make an application to the court if they havent by the due date

[barns66]

Hi

Thank you for all the help and comments,i will let you all know as soon as i hear something from the courts or Cabot/Morgans.I will make a application if they do not produce anything by the due date.

 

barns66

[Hadituptohere]

hey barns D Day for cabot, anything to report ?

 

Hadituptohere

[barns66]

hey barns D Day for cabot, anything to report ?

 

Hadituptohere

 

Hi Hadituptohere

I received Notice of Application from the court this morning Dated 13 October 2010

I have not got a scanner and i will try to put what it says down on the form

In the xxxxxxxxxx County Court

Claim Number xxxxxxx

Claimant: Cabot Finacial(UK) Limited

CABOT FINACIAL (UK) LTD

Defendent XXXXXXXXXXXX

Date, 13 October 2010

 

 

To the Defendent

my name and address are correct in this box

TAKE NOTICE that the Application will take place on

2 November at xxxx PM

at xxxxxxxxxx County Court,name and address of court

When you should attend

15MINS has been allowed for the APPLICATION

Please Note: this case may be released to another Judge,possibly at a different Court

 

Application Notice

For help in completing this form please read

notes for guidance on page 3 Box on this side of form

Name of County Court

xxxxxxxxxx County Coutt

Claim no. xxxxxxxxx

Claimants name Cabot Financial (UK) Limitred

Defendents name xxxxxxxxxxxx

Date 11th October 2010

 

1.What is your name or,if you are a solicitor,the name of your firm?

Morgan Solicitors

2 are you a boxs to tick Claiment empty Defendent emtyy Solicitor empty

Other (please specify) cross in this box In-House Litigation Department of Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited

If you are a solicitor whome do you represent Nothing in this box

 

3. What order are you asking the court to make and why?

 

The claimant requests an extension of time to comply with Orders of the Court dated16th August 2010 and 14th September 2010.

 

4 Have you attached a draft order you are applying for Yes box empty No Box Croos in it

 

5 How do you want to have this applicaton dealt with? At a hearing box with a cross in it Without a hearing Box empty

At a telaphone hearing Box empty.

 

6 How long do you think the hearing will last ? Hour box empty Minutes box 20

Is this time estimate agreedby all parties? Yes box empty No box cross in it

 

7. Give details of fixed trial date or period In this box it says 15th October 2010

 

8. What level of Judge does your hearing need? In this box it says District

 

9. Who shouldbe served with this application? In this box it says Defendent

 

10. What information will you be relying on,in suppot of your applicaton?

the attached witness statment box empty

the statement of case box empty

the evidence set ot in the box below box with x in it

In tha box below it refers to it states

 

1 The claimant issued proceedingsagainst the Defendent on 9th June 2010.These proceedings wher deemed served on the 14th June 2010

 

2 On 15th June 2010,the Defendent filed an Acknowledgment of service and on the 19th July 2010 a Defence to the claimants claim.

 

3.The Climant made requests to the assignor for documentation such as Credit Agreement and Statements.

The Assignor provided the claimant with copies of theae documents.

4. On the 16th August 2010,District Judge xxxxxxxx ordered the claimant to file and serve full Particulars of claim by 14th September 2010.The particulars were to include the nature of the claim,how and whenthe debt arose,the dare of assignment and statement of account.This Order was received by the Claimant's Litigation Department on 2nd September 2010.

 

5. On the 8th September 2010.upon preparing the Amended Particulars of Claim ,I reviewed the documentation provided by the assignor.It came to my attention that further clarification was needed from the asssignor in respect of the Credit Agreement provide the change in account numbers shown on the satatements,Without this information the claimant would not be able to fully paeticularise how and when the debt arose

 

6. Upon becoming aware of the necssity for clarification,an email was sent to our Legal Counsel requesting that he seek the same from the Assignor.

 

7. On the 14th September 2010,the court granted Claiments Application.The Claimant was given until the 15th October 2010 to file and serve it's Amendee Particulars of Claim.

 

8.Since making the Application,i have chased aesponse to my email on two seperate occasions anddiscussed the matter with our Legal Counsel.The Claimant still awaits this information from the Assignor.

 

9. For the reasons detailecabove,the Claiment requests a further extension of time to enable the Claimant to seek clarification fromthe assignor.

 

10.The Claiment submits that should the Claiments Application be refused,the claimant would be denined accessto justice while the Defendant be relieve from liability for a sum claimed contrary to CPR,r,1.1.

 

Statement of Truth box is the following.

[i believe][The applicant believes] that the facts stated in this section 9and any continuation sheets) are troe

 

Signed it as intials that look like ss. Dated 11 th October 2010

 

Full name is here

 

Name of app;icants solicitors firm Morgan Solicitors.

Potion of office held Civil Litigator

 

11. Signature and address details

 

Signed intials her look like ss Dated 10thOctober 2010

Postion of office helf Civil Litigator

Morgans Solicitors

5,Mitchell Court

Castle Mound Way

Rugby

CV23 0UY

 

Also enclosed isApplication Notice Notes for Guidance about (Form N244)

 

Any thoughts anyone what my next move should be,I am npt clear if i have to attend court on the 2nd November.

 

barns66

[Hadituptohere]

It would be adviseable to attend, this is cabot applying for further time...(come on cabot you were quick enough to issue proceedings), Hopefully the DJ will look at the unless order and with some persuasion from yourself pointing out CPR regarding documents required etc will see what the silly buggers are up to, I do hope we get some of the more experienced in hear to advise you further...

 

Hadituptohere

[barns66]

Hi Hadituptohere

I will attendthe court as you advice,i can't undersatand what they are up to at all.If they had what the judge asked them for surely they would have produced them now.

 

barns66

[the_shadow]

Hmm surprised that they havent discontinued, they must know how bad the goldfish/msdw agreements are.

 

Only thing I would advise is to print out the Carey vs HSBC ruling, go through it and highlight all the times that Waksman mentions a reconstruction not being sufficient for enforcement cases but rather purely for s78 cases.

 

The reason I say this is today Cabot managed to convince a judge that a reconstruction was sufficient to enforce an agreement due to waksmans ruling in carey, i just feel convinced they may play it on in the hearing and suggest to the judge that a real copy is not required due to Carey. Prepared is pre-warned.

 

S.

[barns66]

Hi the_shadow

Thank you for your kind advice,i will do as you suggest and print out the Carey v HSBC ruling

 

barns66

[Rhia]

Agree with all of the above and particularly the Waksman judgement as it does state quite clearly that reconstruction is OK for providing info under s78 but not for a court hearing.

 

Shadow which case is the one you refer to? Is it on CAG?

[the_shadow]

Shadow which case is the one you refer to? Is it on CAG?

 

Unfortunately yes, suspend belief and read this one

 

Kav3571 vs Cabot

 

S.

[Hadituptohere]

HI Barns

 

When you attend the hearing be sure to point out to the DJ that:

 

in point 3 of their evidence in their application notice Cabot claim to have presented all the documents requested and this is not true, inform the DJ what docs are still missing.

 

Also it needs to be highlighted that Cabot are claiming to be the assignor, you need clarification of the type of assignment, as CCA74 clearly defines the Creditor S189(1) as owning the rights and duties and the application form that cabot have produced is headed Consumer Credit Agreement CCA1974 and if this is not the case cabot are trying to refer their claim to contract law and not the law the agreement was drawn under. advisable to take a copy of CCA74 with you.

 

Anyone please correct me if Im wrong

 

Hadituptohere

[barns66]

Hi Hadituptohere

Thank you for your kind advice again.I will go through all my papers and prepare for the court.I do not understand why they are asking for a further extension to provide the documents the DJ asked them to provide above 2 months ago.If they have got what the DJ orded them to produce before the hearing should they send copies to me before the hearung or can they just turn up at court with them.

 

barns66

[Hadituptohere]

The hearing is for extra time, I wouldnt hold your breath with cabot sending them to you, theyll send them to the court as soon as they get them.

 

It does seem that the DJ has had enough of their antics but this cannot be taken as gospel, you cant guarantee that you will get the same DJ that drew up the order.

 

Fingers crossed they cant produce whats required and you really do need to clarify that they have yet to disclose missing documents mentioned in your defence and from the court order

 

Have you had sight of the Deed of Assignment/bill of sale to prove cabot own your alledged account and can give you good discharge if you were to settle the amount?

 

If they do turn up at court with the documents this is only a 15mins hearing applying for more time. Which shouldnt be granted its a pure abuse of CPR and the justice system.

 

Hadituptohere

[Hadituptohere]

Barns just another thought, it would be adviseable to take your first correspondance from cabot along with you, and point out the date the pond life first started harrassing you, then ask the question why they dont have the documentation required already.

 

Hadituptohere

[Rhia]

HIUTH is right you need to show just how much time they have had to produce the documentation. They should not have even started court action if they didn't have the evidence to back up their claims. But, as we all know, this is the way they work and they count on people not knowing their rights or being too scared to fight back.

[barns66]

Hi,sorry i have not been back to this for awhile,i have received a what they call a deed of assignment when i sent for document using the CPR methods,there was about 30 pages and more than half hadstuff blacked out.I have all the letters that have been sent fro Cabot,including the one they first sent to tell me that the debt had been assigned to them,i did not get one from Goldfish,the one Cabot sent that was supposed to be from Goldfish did not have an account number on,i thought if it had come from Goldfish it would have contained the account number.When i have asked for a agrrement all they ever sent was a copy of a application form with some t&c that are not legible in lots of places and the ones they have sent seems to have been highlighted in certain parts.If they turn up what are they going to produce that they have not produced before.In the cd they sent when i sent a SAR request u notice that they are looking for the t & c and in reply to the request by email it states that noT & Cs are can be found.Thanks for your input Hadituptohere and Rhia.

barns66

[Rhia]

Are these letters from Cabot complete copies of proper letters i.e. addressed to you with your name, account number and other personal details or are they "representations" in other words copies of blank templated letters they might have sent?

 

If the sales doc is excessively blanked out I would demand to see an unredacted version as you need to see how this document is connected to you and will affect you.

 

If the terms and conditions and/or the application form are not "easily legible" then the whole thing is unenforceable under 127(3) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 - the 2006 amendments don't apply if your agreement is pre this period.

 

What can they come up with? They have had so long to produce these docs and this is the best they can do. The Goldfish portfolio consists of "toxic" debts i.e. no paperwork and can't be proven.

[barns66]

Hi Rhia

Thank you for your advice,all the letters i have received from Cabot do contain my name and address.I have looked at the copies of the application forms they sent me and i can't see any reference to any t + c's on them,then ones they did send are not legible in some parts.In a leter i received from them i notice it states "Please be advised that Cabot may not hold information such as your original credit agreement or statements on fileto obtain this information,we recommend you contact the original lender.Barclaycard (formerly Goldfish bank) who will hold this informationas the original data controller" I sent a SAR to Goldfish with a cheque for the fee of £10,i received a reply from them returning my cheque with the replies shown here,i did put the correct account number in and my correct address,i removed te account number on good advice.

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barns66

Edited October 30, 2010 by barns66
adding

[barns66]

Hi.i forgot to mention they did offer me a discharge but it was not what i would call a good discharge,it would only have meant a few hundred pounds after i had paid there costs.I have never been in court before,i would like a bit of advice of what i can expect and what i should take to court with me.It is Cabot/Morgans that have applied for this hearing to give them more time to produce the papers the judge orderd them to produce on 2 occasions.Will the reply that Barclays (Goldfish) sent me in reply to my SAR make any difference,saying that the account number quoted is not valid.there are no accounts for the named customer at the address provide,i did put the correct Goldfish account number that Cabot have always quated on correspondence sent to me,along with the correct address.I will let you all know when i come back from court later today.hearings around 3.30pm.

 

barns66

Edited November 2, 2010 by barns66
adding

[barns66]

Hi i have just got back from court,i will post up later what happened.

 

barns66

[DonkeyB]

Hope it’s good news,