Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • He was one of four former top executives from Sam Bankman-Fried's firms to plead guilty to charges.View the full article
    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

HSBC County Court Claim


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5068 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Pullem

 

HSBC have included a lot of waffle in their witness statement but have skipped over the important bits. You need to challenge them on each major issue but don't get into waffle yourself.

 

IMO,your statement is too long. By way of example, it's nearly at the maximum that can be filed electronically. The document needs to be made shorter but still deal with 2 important points, the requirement for a SIGNED agreement per S61 and also the time period the Default Notice. As it is, I fear a judge may not read all you have written and just accept the verbiage from the rent-a-lawyer that HSBC will send to court.

 

I'll have a look at what I filed when I was up against these bullies and try to post them up later as a suggestion of what i'm on about.

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 153
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

Hello pullem01 and Docman!

 

No signed Agreement that complies with s61(1)(a) and no valid s87(1) Default Notice, suggests they are pulling your leg.

 

Their Witness Statement is nothing more than a wish list for an early Christmas present.

 

The only way they will make this stick is if they have bunged a Judge a fat brown envelope on the Golf Course.

 

However, as that is not so impossible as it sounds, best to hit back hard and make sure your Witness Statement is crystal clear and lining the Judge up for an awkward Appeal if they try to gift wrap this for DG and HSBC.

 

I'm a bit busy right now, so hang fire on the Witness Statement, and over the next few days I'm sure we can all help to get this into shape for you.

 

Cheers,

BRW

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Pullem

 

HSBC have included a lot of waffle in their witness statement but have skipped over the important bits. You need to challenge them on each major issue but don't get into waffle yourself.

 

IMO,your statement is too long. By way of example, it's nearly at the maximum that can be filed electronically. The document needs to be made shorter but still deal with 2 important points, the requirement for a SIGNED agreement per S61 and also the time period the Default Notice. As it is, I fear a judge may not read all you have written and just accept the verbiage from the rent-a-lawyer that HSBC will send to court.

 

I'll have a look at what I filed when I was up against these bullies and try to post them up later as a suggestion of what i'm on about.

 

Has this case not been assigned to your local court yet ?

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

Link to post
Share on other sites

CB

 

I understand that it is a combined application in the local county court to lift the stay imposed by Northampton in June 2008 (ie nearly 18 months ago) AND for SJ wothout ANY documents. HSBC are either getting desparate to pay their bonuses this year or they are hoping to bully the judge.

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi pullem

 

I've had a go at drafting something but it wasn't easy due to the hotchpotch of a witness statement from Dumb Goofers. Their document is supposed to be a witness statement suporting an application. The grounds for the application can be stated on the form N244 and a witness statement need only be used to formally produce documents as evidence.

 

What has been produced by Dumb Goofers is a cross betwen a witness statement, an Amended POC, and a Response to Defence. Consequently, I took the view that you had to address each of the points in the WS, as though it was an Amended POC but without making your document look to much like an Amended Defence.

 

Anyway, have a look and see what you think. Comments from others much appreciated...

Pullem WS.doc

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks docman, with my first glance it's looking good. Can see what you mean now about addressing each point and cutting out the waffle (unlike DG). Will have a proper look through later this evening and come back with any additional thoughts.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like Docman has sorted out the main issues for you pullem. DG are masters at waffle. They hope they will overwhelm you with irrelevant information that the main issues ie the lack of a signed and valid agreement will be overlooked.

 

No, I cant say I have come across anything quite like this.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, I've got my witness statement together along with my exhibit bundle (which is looking like a small forest already). Can I just clarify in my exhibit bundle I have:

All correspondance from myself to DG

Copies of proof of postage

Copies of filed defence

Copies of court letters stating received defence etc

Copies of correspodance from DG

I've numbered the pages and put it in chronological order as this seems most logical for indexing and quick retrieval in court.

 

Do I need to include a bundle with all the case law associated with my defence within my exhibit at this stage and is there anything else that I need to include?

Link to post
Share on other sites

se

Edited by Josie8

You may receive different advice to your query as people have different experiences and opinions. Please use your own judgement in deciding whose advice to take.

 

If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional. Any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability.

 

If you think I have been helpful PLEASE click the scales

 

court bundles for dummies

Link to post
Share on other sites

The case Carey v Hsbc was mainly over what a creditor needs to do in order to comply with s. 78 request. They are to be allowed to reconstitute agreements. This is also in accordance with the OFT draft guidance which was introduced into evidence. They do not have to provide a photocopy of the application at all.

 

In addition prescribed terms can be overleaf or referred to as attached for agreements pre 2005. This will be a matter of evidence individual to each case

 

josie

 

This case has nothing to do with S78, so today's announcement is irrelevant. Or are you doing the banks job for them?

Doc

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

Link to post
Share on other sites

Apologies I must have misread thread. I thought here was an issue regarding a credit agreement containing prescribed terms.

 

However I would suggest you read judgment before decrying me. The judgment states that a creditor does not have to produce a signed copy of agreement when enforcing as long as can demonstrate on balance of possibilites that a compliant agreement was entered into originally.

Edited by Josie8

You may receive different advice to your query as people have different experiences and opinions. Please use your own judgement in deciding whose advice to take.

 

If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional. Any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability.

 

If you think I have been helpful PLEASE click the scales

 

court bundles for dummies

Link to post
Share on other sites

No problem, josie.

 

As you can see from the extract from the draft witness statement, HSBC have admitted not having an agreement or a DN. I am in exactly the same position, yet HSBC are proceeding. If you can mis-read a case, think what will happen in courts where there is a pushy 'solicitor' for the bank, or with DJs who don't know consumer credit law, or simply don't like LiPs, etc.

 

"

  1. On xx April 2008 the claimant commenced proceedings through the Northampton County Court.
  2. I filed a defence at Northampton County Court on the xx May 2008.
  3. The Claimant did not respond to the Defence and the claim was stayed by the Court.
  4. On xx June 2008, I received correspondence from the Claimant’s solicitors in which they admitted the Claimant was unable to provide a copy of a Default Notice or original signed credit agreement.
  5. Further, on xx August 2008, I received further correspondence from the Claimant’s solicitors enclosing a copy of the Claimant’s current terms and conditions, a notice of variation and a blank copy of a credit agreement.

I did not receive any further correspondence from the Claimant or their solicitors until xx November 2009, when I received correspondence from the XXXX County Court stating that an application for Summary Judgement had been made by the Claimant. "

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

Link to post
Share on other sites

So been spending my eveings researching consumer credit law, which has certainly made fantastic bedtime reading. My witness statement and exhibit bundle is ready to go but still not sure if I should include everything else I will rely on or not (copy of CCA 1974 with s61 & s87 marked, CCA regulations 1983 + amendments 2004 and my copies of the cases associated with my defence Wilson-v- FCT, Dimond v Lovell, Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain and Kpohraror v Woolwich Building Society) as this will make the whole exhibit bundle about 500 pages.

Does the pack have to be with DG as well as the court 7 days prior to court date, if so might have to send tomorrow to ensure it's there in time.

Link to post
Share on other sites

pullem

 

You just have to file your witness statement and exhibits. Copies of statutes, regulations etc are not required at this stage. They may be needed later if the case gets to a full trial. Don't forget to attach a certificate of service [N215] to the copy sent to the court, showing that you have served DG.

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

Link to post
Share on other sites

So everything is filed with the court, booked day off from work and just recieved a phone call from DG stating they are sending a letter out to me to let me know that they are asking for the case to be adjourned awaiting the outcome of test case Carey vs HSBC, where the defendants defence was the same as mine and the judge ruled that the claimant could re-issue an agreement. They then asked me if I wanted to withdraw my defence as it would save costs WTF !!! I politely informed them that I would like the DJ to make a decison on my case and I would not be withdrawing my defence. Can someone please shed some info on what is going on ?? Surely if the judge had made a ruling then they can't be waiting the outcome of the test case ?? The person on the phone ( have now found out this is Ms Osbourne) didn't seem to have a clue what she was supposed to be telling me, can anyone tell me what is happening with this case. Can I put in any response to the adjournment?

Edited by pullem01
Link to post
Share on other sites

pulem

 

A bit odd to await the outcome as we know that Carey was handed down before Christmas. Perhaps you should contact Dumb Goofers and offer to send them a copy of the judgment and at the same time advise them that the Manchester test cases (inc Carey) were concerned with provision of copy agreements to meet requests under S78 and NOT the production of agreements to enforce claims. Such agreements have to comply with S61.

 

I would also contact the court and advise them that the Manchester cases have no relevance and the claimant's request is just a further delaying tactic. Ask the court that the hearing of your application go ahead.

  • Haha 1

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

Link to post
Share on other sites

So I've a drafted an email to DG summarising the above points, thought I better give my local county court first and they have had no application for adjournment. Although I have been told to ring back Monday evening / Tuesday morning to check whether the case will be heard due to weather conditions. I wonder if this is another of DG's tactics to get me to withdraw the defence ?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Spoke to the county court today, the hearing will still be going ahead tomorrow. Adjournment request went before DJ and he rejected DG's application as not relevant to my case !!! Hopefully may have a good DJ by the looks of it.

Can anyone tell me what to expect for tomorrow, getting a bit nervous about it now. I have three sets of my witness statement and exhibit, a notepad for making notes, draft of costs (just in case), printouts of CCA 1974 with s61 & s87 marked, notes around the irrelevance of test cases in case I'm asked about that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to bump, in court tomorrow for opposition to HSBC's application for summary judgement and application to strike out my defence. I know the basics of writing notes, asking for clarification, addressing the judge as sir/madam etc but don't know the court process bits. Can anyone tell me what to expect - Do I read out my witness statement or will the DJ just read the witness statements from both sides. I presume I will need to counter any arguments from DG, how to I do this ? Do I wait for DG to finish then address the DJ with my points?

TIA

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi pullem,

 

Usually the person bringing the claim is asked to kick off, then the other side gets their chance to speak.

 

You shouldnt interrupt either the DJ or the opposition when they are speaking.

 

Be respectful at all times.

 

Here are a couple of posts one from BRW and the other from tomterm8 on how to behave in court.

 

I am sure you will be ok:D

 

EMPTY DESK TRICK

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/108467-basic-introduction-consumer-credit.html

 

 

HTH and good luck for tomorrow :D

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

Link to post
Share on other sites

So I'm back from the court, it turned out to be a complete waste of a morning.

DG representative kicked off stated that they had requested an adjournment which was denied but the Carey test case was clearly pertiant so began to present Carey test case to DJ.

Turns out that we had a different DJ than the one who made the decision on Monday that the test case was irrelevant.

I responded with the fact that I thought the test case was irrelevant as the test case was dealing with provision of agreements under s77-79 and not the production of agreements to enforce claims where the creditor is required to provide a true copy when disputing any breach of the CCA. There is no singed agreement that complies with s61(1) and from my understanding of the CCA, execution involves signing an agreement. If no agreement has been executed, it is impossible to supply a true copy of the agreement.

DJ then said so I can see from your witness statement that you oppose this application for strike out on the ground of non-compliance with s61 and s87. YES, YES, YES

She then states but in DG's exhibit, you have signed to say you agree to the terms and conditions in your change of title document, panic..panic.. panic - look for the copy, and it states back account number and the words C/CARD. So I replied there is no account number detailed with the words C/CARD it could have been anyone of my cards. The DJ did not look amused, then summed up it is inappropriate for me to deal with this due to the recent test case, both parties to provide additional witness statements, then turns to DG's rep and states I suggest you mention the fact that the defendant has signed a change of title document which says she agrees to the terms and conditions. There I am thinking they are meant to be impartial. Anyway she then turns to me and says I take it that you have taken no legal advice and I suggest you think about discontinuing unless you want a very large costs bill.

Adjourned for 1st open date after 16th Feb.

I didn't think I did anything wrong with my statements, so how come the DJ seemed to have it in for me?? Really worried now if this goes before her again that DG will be granted the summary judgement.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh bliddy hell,

 

I think we need for someone with more legal knowledge to look in on you. Will flag for attention. :)

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...