H.O.L Test case appeal. Judgement Declared. ***See Announcements***

[Bookworm]

I think they already know. ;-)

[300]

When I was in court recently attempting to get the stay released on a Shabbey account the judge hinted that a solution could be reached soon and the barrister made a slight genuflection, not that they don't twinkle every time they look at judges anyway;¬)

[InformedSearcher]

You know if yu think back on the whole subject it's quite amusing. All courts are like commercial entities in the way they work to targets and budgets. When people started to claim back (the unfair and no matter what the end ruling is they are blatantly unfair) charges they could cope. Then as the claims increased the County Courts could no longer cope.

Financial institutions then started to realise what was initially a slow stream it was rapidly becoming a full fast flowing river they all probably got together. Their 'advisors' would have advised them that court was the best action both financially and giving them breathing space to challenge.

One must remember that to financial institutions the person in the street is merely a number and nothing more. You hear all the b***s**t about customer services but the reality as we all here know is far different. As has been said before these entities think of us all as 'lucky' to be able to have accounts with them. Unfortunately they are running around 30 years behind times and something like this, and a win for the poor street person will probably jog them back to todays' reality.

My comments much earlier in the thread meant that I was surprised that the claiming of unfair charges was rather muted in all the media. Just as if someone has suggested to them not to mention it too much.

Michael

[yourbank]

Banks are the same as shops, they are retail outlets. That is always the bottom line, a bank is there not for customer service but to sell you things. If you were unfortunate to have charges then you were unlikely to be sold to, so the bank evolved non credit products to sell to those who they couldn't sell to before. In fact, today they will sell you package accounts because like gym memberships, we probably don't know whats on offer, and might use them maybe once or twice. Once the hook is there, then you have them.

[car2403]

Banks are the same as shops, they are retail outlets. That is always the bottom line, a bank is there not for customer service but to sell you things. If you were unfortunate to have charges then you were unlikely to be sold to, so the bank evolved non credit products to sell to those who they couldn't sell to before. In fact, today they will sell you package accounts because like gym memberships, we probably don't know whats on offer, and might use them maybe once or twice. Once the hook is there, then you have them.

 

Should that be "then they have [us]"?

 

Your ex-"them", now, right?

[djgordyp]

Banks are the same as shops, they are retail outlets. That is always the bottom line, a bank is there not for customer service but to sell you things. If you were unfortunate to have charges then you were unlikely to be sold to, so the bank evolved non credit products to sell to those who they couldn't sell to before. In fact, today they will sell you package accounts because like gym memberships, we probably don't know whats on offer, and might use them maybe once or twice. Once the hook is there, then you have them.

Reading that last line made me think of the Nationwide ad where the customer complained about the interest rates. The bank guy (his face is familiar but I can't remember the actors name) explains how it is like a big hook to catch customers with.

How true to life that ad was.

[car2403]

Reading that last line made me think of the Nationwide ad where the customer complained about the interest rates. The bank guy (his face is familiar but I can't remember the actors name) explains how it is like a big hook to catch customers with.

How true to life that ad was.

 

It wasn't meant to be funny ...

 

I thought it was a documentary on the daily life of branch staff, eh, YB?

[yourbank]

Should that be "then they have [us]"?

 

Your ex-"them", now, right?

The last few remnants of the manual is starting to leave the bowel

[Conniff]

Banks are the same as shops, they are retail outlets.

 

Not exactly, shops have to buy their stock in, Banks get their stock for free.

 

Banks and recycling centers are the only businesses that get their raw material for free.

[yourbank]

Not exactly, shops have to buy their stock in, Banks get their stock for free.

 

Banks and recycling centers are the only businesses that get their raw material for free.

 

I think I would argue that fixed rate mortgages are bought rather than a raw material for free. Although I do understand what you mean.

[Conniff]

I should have said, 'in general', anyway you know what I was getting at.

[InformedSearcher]

LOL

Shops are supposed to employ nice staff to make you come (no pun intended) again. Unless you shop at the occasional supermarket where the staff believe they are the special ones or have difficulty with English.

Bank have always considered themselves special. Oh, hang on considering some of the MP reactions they could be considered on par.

I'm suprised that in her initial interview that HB woman did not blurt out how we were priveleged to pay her wages! Soon to be circa 40k to close down her office, circa 60k payoff then her pension of probably 35k. All pro rata to a well known banking official and his farewell package (at 50!).

Michael

[srfrench]

Sitting on my haunches...wagging one's tail...ears pricked... 10 DAYS TO GO!!!!

[locutus]

Sitting on my haunches...wagging one's tail...ears pricked... 10 DAYS TO GO!!!!

Whatever you need to do to pass the time... I hope that this will resolve things, but as the saying goes, "Hope in your left hand and poop in your right, We all know which one gets full 1st!"

[yourbank]

12th June and appeal is 23rd June 2009 and scheduled for 3 days which is the appeal NOT the judgement.

We aren't getting the judgement quite yet but we might get it before the summer recess which is July 31st

[Stornoway]

Not exactly, shops have to buy their stock in, Banks get their stock for free.

 

Banks and recycling centers are the only businesses that get their raw material for free.

 

Its off topic but in reality these days the banks are paying rather a lot for their "stock" - pre credit crunch banks could borrow on the money markets at a margin of less than 0.1% and then lend the cash to the public at a margin 10 to 200 times higher (ie 1% for a mortgage loan or 20%+ for a credit card). These days most of the banks have to pay at least 2% to borrow on the money markets. That's why most of the banks are reluctant to lend : they'd rather use any surplus cash to pay off the expensive money they have borrowed.

[Thailand]

12th June and appeal is 23rd June 2009 and scheduled for 3 days which is the appeal NOT the judgement.

We aren't getting the judgement quite yet but we might get it before the summer recess which is July 31st

 

Possibly not the first time that has been said, but I was so desperate to know that and it's a long thread!

 

When the filth lose, again, do you have any thoughts as to how long the urine extractors will take to take it to Europe - so they can carry on their spank campaign?

 

Another year maybe?

 

My love for Banks runs deep. :grin:

[Thailand]

Another question...why has the media stopped talking about the filth! (charges wise) God, they have it easy.

[GuidoT]

Because they have the other filth to talk about.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

MPs.

[srfrench]

I personally think that once the HoL Judgement is given within a couple of months or sooner? the ECJ has already stated that it is up to the member countries to rule on the unfairness themselves.

 

In a nutshell (IMHO) and please correct me if I'm wrong once the HoL judgement is given, stays should be lifted and that's the end of the road for the Banks!

[car2403]

The only appeal from the HoL is to the European Courts, (European Court of Justice or the European Court of Human Rights) but those appeals only happen when the issues are concerning European Law. (Appellate Jurisdiction Act 1876) I can't see how European Law is involved in this issue, as you've already mentioned the ECJ has said member states should decide this issue, but we've seen funnier things happen.

 

Once all this is over we still need to decide what is a fair charge - unless the OFT are prepared to make an agreement with the Banks over that, more likely they will have this investigative limit set where they won't take action under that amount, plus the Banks are willing to agree it, there'll be another round of litigation to decide what level of charge is fair.

 

Of course, if you disagree with the OFT's view, if they go that way, you're still entitled to go to Court to have the fairness of the charges assessed - it's for this reason that I can't see the OFT being in a strong position, as they were with Credit Card charges, to apply their investigative limit in this instance.

 

In short, there's still some work to be done before we get what we want, using the Courts.

 

There is always the possibility that the OFT demands the charges be paid back after this decision, though. It seems the Banks are willing to take at risk.

Edited June 14, 2009 by car2403

[Mr lex]

Hello SRF !!

 

It seems a long time since the Pasty meet !

 

I hate to say this, but the 23rd of June is just an appeal about an appeal.

 

The OFT statement isn't due until the Autumn and I'm afraid to say I can't see anything happing before October I hope I am wrong.

 

Lex

[srfrench]

Hi Carr

 

To a point I agree with you.

 

However (if) the decision goes the OFT's way following the HoL appeal then that settles the matter regarding the OFT can rule on the UTCCR issue.

 

It would be nonsensical to think that after all this the OFT will find the Bank's T&C's fair!

 

The second stage will happen to determine what level would be deemed fair.

 

On a point of law, the level decided applies from the day it is agreed NOT retrospectively.

 

Thus it goes without saying that the test case is effectively over once the HoL Appeal Judgement is given (if it goes the OFT's way) and claims would have the stay lifted.

 

The Master of the Rolls had already indicated following the Court Of Appeals ruling earlier this year that the Appeal to the HoL would be a pointless and ill-advised adventure. Only he is responsible in determining if the global stays are lifted.

 

I'm sure you may know most if not all I prattle on about, but to those peeps who don't, hopefully this will make it a little clearer.

 

If I am wrong on any substantive issue, please correct me

 

All in all... "If I were a rich man........."

[srfrench]

Good day to you Mr Lex...my fellow pasty munching beach-bum

 

Probably like a lot of people in this forum now... we are slowly waking up from our slumbers, a slumber that's laster 19 months thus far... talk about lie-ins , are getting our heads around the developments and outcomes of this test case and even refreshing our memories on where we stand in our own court submissions.

 

Personally of the 2 claims I still have lodged in the system, I've amemnded the POC in the earlier claim to make it clearer, less ambiguous and legally backed up with recent case law to support my various restitutionary measures.

 

The second claim already had this in it.

 

I wrote to Abbey's Sols to get their consent in a mature way, if they don't then I have to submit an N244 Application Notice with £75 to the Court. A cost that will also be claimed back in it's fullness adding to their total bill.

 

Their deadline is June 22nd...conveniently the same time as the HoL Appeal!

 

Hope you're keeping well Lex and no doubt will hear more from each other and our fellow group members in the days, weeks and a few months ahead

[Robot_roo]

guys, I have still not started my case against the banks as I was waiting for all these decisions to come through do you think im being wise to wait??