H.O.L Test case appeal. Judgement Declared. ***See Announcements***

[chinnygirl]

I have just been charged 70.00? charges all in one go my husband lost his job we are pennyless cant even afford to eat i just rang the halifx told them this and there not even bothered that cud of been a weeks shopping .how dare they still do this... if i have already claimed back charges in the past can you still do it or not? i really needed this money..i cant even afford to take them to court if it got that far? please advise

[locutus]

Start a new thread in the halifax forum (Click here

start new thread ) and I'm sure you'll get all the help you need.

[Thailand]

I have just been charged 70.00? charges all in one go my husband lost his job we are pennyless cant even afford to eat i just rang the halifx told them this and there not even bothered that cud of been a weeks shopping .how dare they still do this... if i have already claimed back charges in the past can you still do it or not? i really needed this money..i cant even afford to take them to court if it got that far? please advise

 

Follow Locutus' advice.

 

I'm afraid you won't get any sympathy from the faceless banks, they are pathetic. Even bankers don't buy into there advertisments. LOL, Natwest would appear to be a good instituion if we listened to the bowlarks.

 

Stick with us instead, because we have standards!

 

The £70 is theft, but it's complicated to explain! (And CAG may see to my choice of word, it matters not if it's correct!, as the law just bums at times!)

[locutus]

The Office of Fair Trading: OFT welcomes Court of Appeal judgment

 

The OFT welcomes the Court of Appeal's very clear confirmation today that the unarranged overdraft charging terms for personal current accounts can be assessed for fairness.

The Court found that these terms are not part of the core or essential bargain between a consumer and their bank, and therefore consumers do have protection under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations (UTCCRs) for these terms.

 

This judgment confirms the OFT's long-held interpretation of this important aspect of consumer law, and is one that consumers themselves would identify with. It is also relevant to businesses across the whole economy.

We are now analysing the implications of the judgment for our ongoing investigation. The OFT has already written to the banks with its provisional view on the fairness of the terms, setting out its concerns that they may be unfair. We expect to reach a final decision on fairness later this year.

 

Can we get access to this letter via the freedom of information act? More importantly, if we can, will that be of any use to us?

[Bookworm]

Locutus, I think this is referring to this:

 

BBC NEWS | Business | OFT says bank charges are unfair

 

Not sure that it would make much difference at this point anyway, all we can do is wait and see if the banks appeal to the HOL, and if not, then let the OFT publish their results (I suspect they may well have finished and are just waiting on whether the banks will appeal or not, no point in showing their hand too early, I think).

[yourbank]

The OFT are definitely not referring to the BBC article but as the BBC article was written after the fact.

 

 

"5. In August 2008, we wrote to the eight banks setting out our approach to the assessment of fairness and, for seven of them, our concerns about their particular terms. This included a provisional view on the unfairness of particular terms and conditions that impose charges. At this stage, no bank's terms have been given a clean bill of health and all banks remain under investigation."

 

Once the banks' appeal is either heard/turned down then the next stage of the process is the above(at least that is how I see the next stage providing the High Court Judgement is confirmed so to speak).

[Bookworm]

YB, I KNOW the OFT don't refer to the BBC article, I'm pretty sure they don't rely on the BBC to give them their own inside info.

 

What I meant was that the leaked memo to which the BBC article refers is the same info which the OFT refers to in the above-quoted. In other words, on the 5th august 08, the OFT wrote to the banks about their concerns about the fairness of the charges ("no-one seems to have a clean slate", I vaguely recall they said), on the 29th August, the BBC published the article revealing the leaked memo about said letter and concerns, and in their website, the OFT now refers to the same letter again, or at least that's how I understand it, I somehow doubt the OFT would have written to repeat the same thing 6 months down the line especially when at this point we are all awaiting their conclusions to their investigation.

[yourbank]

apologies, not sure if we are on cross purposes here. I read the link on the post

The Office of Fair Trading: OFT welcomes Court of Appeal judgment

And went from there which had a timeline on that.

Oops. We are on the same lines.

[Kinc]

Small bit of print in The Times 13th March 09 yesterday noted how one customer recieved threats of court action over 4 pence. Lloyds sent a reply saying about how much the letter cost saying ' it is an automated letter system with minimal cost to ourselves'. So how do you justify £35?? as fair.

 

If it's 2 pence (overdrawn) I bet the letter automation system does a cost analysis and says 'No. But 4 pence, and away we go.

 

This should be evidence that the banks automated overdrawn letter printing systems are cheaper than 4 pence per letter. I used to work for the Woolwich in the print room, they used to zoom through at 3am. And off they go (that was 15 years ago)

 

Taking the P.I.S.S

[Thailand]

Correct.

 

They know as well as we do they are filthy swines, and it's unlawful.

 

Soon enough we'll be equal, then we can sit back and watch the x3 'goes around comes around' kick in!

 

Ahem, Saturday morning hangover, time to call Barclays and get an hour long insurance quote via saynoto0870. Think I'll pick the peanuts out of todays quote. Just a quick sponsored google link first....

[JonCris]

Anyone got a link to this Times story

[SteveH2508]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-charges-finance-industry/189179-times-lloyds-admit-minimal.html

[Michael Browne]

Will the penny ever drop for these people? - Times Online

 

Will the penny ever drop for these people?

 

Martin Waller: City Diary

 

Time was, when a bank did something quite stupendously, mind-bogglingly stupid and extravagant, you just shrugged and said, hey, that’s a bank being stupid. It’s what they do. Now we own most of them, it somehow seems personal.

 

 

 

Lloyds Banking Group has just gone after an account-holder threatening the full majesty of the law over an unauthorised overdraft of 4p. The letter arrived at the Solihull home of Dave Beasley last Saturday, the day after the taxpayer bunged Lloyds £200 billion on the tacit understanding that it wouldn’t be quite so stupid in future. The letter, which relates to a long-dormant account, is from a firm of Brighton solicitors and will not have been cheap. “THIS IS A FORMAL DEMAND PRIOR TO THE COMMENCEMENT OF LEGAL PROCEEDINGS . . .”

 

 

 

Lloyds says the whole thing was automated so there was “minimal cost” to, well, us. Mr Beasley tried to pay on the phone, to be told the sum was too small, so he had to go to his local branch. “The parking cost 50p.” The bank admits: “The letter was sent in error. It’s not our policy to pursue such a small amount of money.”

 

 

[TheyrCriminals]

Hi Guys,

 

I want an official investigation into the banks' unauthorised overdraft charging policy. I am not talking about whether these charges are lawful or not as we all know there is a test case going through the Courts to determine that issue. I believe there should be a separate investigation into the impact these charges have had on peoples everyday lives and the resulting quality of life.

 

I want an investigation to examine:

 

(i) why such a perverse charging policy was introduced in the first place (ii) how it could have continued for such a long time without being challenged by a government department/regulator/agency (iii) to uncover the full extent to which these charges have impacted on individuals/families lives and (iv) to uncover the full extent to which these charges have ruined small businesses.

Can someone tell me which government body/department/agency/regulator may have the power to do this?

 

Cheers,

 

TheyrCriminals

[car2403]

Can someone tell me which government body/department/agency/regulator may have the power to do this?

 

That'd be the OFT, then.

 

[TheyrCriminals]

Hi car2403,

 

Would that be a viable avenue? Perhaps more of a political impetus to examine the issue, I have already spoken to one MP who is semi-interested and I will be speaking to another MP presently.

 

Any other ideas?

 

TheyrCriminals

[yourbank]

Hi Guys,

 

I want an official investigation into the banks' unauthorised overdraft charging policy. I am not talking about whether these charges are lawful or not as we all know there is a test case going through the Courts to determine that issue. I believe there should be a separate investigation into the impact these charges have had on peoples everyday lives and the resulting quality of life.

 

I want an investigation to examine:

 

(i) why such a perverse charging policy was introduced in the first place

in the early 1980's when HSBC were the first bank NOT to charge for having a bank account

(ii) how it could have continued for such a long time without being challenged by a government department/regulator/agency

UTCCR original form evolved from 1992 and no one really challenged them and the press were not really that bothered until Stephen Hone won £5k back and was featured in the press. for reference Law student wins big penalty charges case | Money | The Guardian

(iii) to uncover the full extent to which these charges have impacted on individuals/families lives and

That one is difficult to do as you would have to find out both the initial factors for a lack of funds to cause the charges, ie wages payment being late, loss of employment,etc, etc, and how the charges impacted on the bills being paid and how that escalated further. I think it would be difficult to isolate bank charges alone. Perhaps, lending practices as well, re Credit cards, loans etc,etc, Perhaps that might be one for a student final year thesis.

(iv) to uncover the full extent to which these charges have ruined small businesses.

Again that one is a similar issue, ie to what extent was the loss of income a contributory factor to the scale of bank charges. I think that there are more than just bank charges at play, perhaps the consequential part ie withdrawal of bank borrowing(if that happened) etc,etc,

Can someone tell me which government body/department/agency/regulator may have the power to do this?

 

Cheers,

 

TheyrCriminals

I would kinda agree with Car, it is probably OFT.

[noomill060]

"i) why such a perverse charging policy was introduced in the first place

in the early 1980's when HSBC were the first bank NOT to charge for having a bank account"

That would actually be the Midland Bank.

[yourbank]

yes, that's what they were called those days.

[car2403]

"i) why such a perverse charging policy was introduced in the first place

in the early 1980's when HSBC were the first bank NOT to charge for having a bank account"

 

 

That would actually be the Midland Bank.

 

Ooooo! That brings back memories, that does! The Griffin comes back to life!

 

Anyhoo, back to updates on the OFT TC - any more for any more?

[noomill060]

I wonder what became of the Griffin?

 

I reckon he got a handsome pay off then got a job as the Vauxhall mascot.

[TheyrCriminals]

Ooooo! That brings back memories, that does! The Griffin comes back to life!

 

Anyhoo, back to updates on the OFT TC - any more for any more?

 

Hi Car2403,

 

Sorry was this directed at me?

 

TheyrCriminals

[yourbank]

The Griffin was the thingy that was in the Midland adverts

 

See above(that one might take car2403 back a bit )

[peanutbuttercup]

Sigh i remember the Griffin -I had a Griffin Young Savers account with a lovely folder with a smiley yellow monster on the front to keep all my statements in - I was so proud.

[yourbank]

Sigh i remember the Griffin -I had a Griffin Young Savers account with a lovely folder with a smiley yellow monster on the front to keep all my statements in - I was so proud.

Anyway, welcome to CAG. If you are claiming from HSBC then you will need to start a thread here.....HSBC Bank - The Consumer Forums

Good luck and welcome.