H.O.L Test case appeal. Judgement Declared. ***See Announcements***

[InformedSearcher]

There will be other avenues to follow should the consumer 'lose' this time around The fight would be far from over:)

 

Really ... at whos cost dare I ask?

 

Michael

p.s. hope you all liked my 'good morning' with Barclaycard moment? lol

[Ibsys]

The UTCCR.

Unfair Terms

5.—(1) A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as

unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties’

rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer.

(2) A term shall always be regarded as not having been individually negotiated where it has

been drafted in advance and the consumer has therefore not been able to influence the substance

of the term.

 

this is part of the Act and so it must be this part which applies as it is a pre written contract, which cant be influenced by the consumer and gives the lender an unfair advantage. The courts have a duty to protect the consumer even if the contract has been signed because the average consumer cannot know all the implications of law in a contract which has been pre written (European ruling by ECJ)

[Kinc]

Could I make a point

 

If you go to an ATM and the bank refuses service you don't get charged.

 

Though by the same mechanism via direct debit you do get charged for refusal of service.

 

So, they are saying that, one refusal warrants a charge by way of DD, but another refusal by way of ATM doesn't. How does this work, with their T and C's?

 

Madness, rip off runts

[yourbank]

Could I make a point

 

If you go to an ATM and the bank refuses service you don't get charged.

 

Though by the same mechanism via direct debit you do get charged for refusal of service.

 

So, they are saying that, one refusal warrants a charge by way of DD, but another refusal by way of ATM doesn't. How does this work, with their T and C's?

 

Madness, rip off runts

 

On the ATM issue, on an obvious point, you ask the bank to pay you or give you money from your own account. A Direct Debit is you giving permission for a third party to ask for money from your account. It is a slight difference but significant to be one that clearly differentiates the type of request being made.

[HSBCrusher]

On the ATM issue, on an obvious point, you ask the bank to pay you or give you money from your own account. A Direct Debit is you giving permission for a third party to ask for money from your account. It is a slight difference but significant to be one that clearly differentiates the type of request being made.

a very slight tiny minuscule microscopic difference.

 

in one case an electronic signal goes to the bank's server which says "can crusher have some money please" and the server checks the balance saying "no".

in the other case an electronic signal goes to the bank's server which says "can crusher's phone company have some money please" and the server checks the balance saying "no".

 

Banks... go off and earn some money by some honest means, instead of ripping off us poor mugs. I do hope your time has come.

[Bookworm]

Spot on, my DrWHo-challenged friend.

 

We keep on hearing about the difference between such and such, but the reality is that it is all a simple software manip. Anyone has ever used an auto-reply "out of office" on their e-mail? It's that simple, one event triggers the auto-response, the only difference at the moment is in the parameters the bank chooses to set.

 

There are TWO cases where I can see a valid reason to charge more: a cheque, which still has to be manually processed. But cheques will be obsolete soon anyway. Besides, whether the cheque is processed and passed or processed and bounced, I am not sure that the difference in action makes such a big difference to the cost, so not sure that the argument holds water, tbh.

2nd case: ATM abroad, where there's a delay before the request gets processed here. However, in this day of APACS and faster payment, I am not sure how long that theory will continue to work either.

[InformedSearcher]

LOL 'almost' spot on however let me explain how banks contend the ATM vs. D/D sceario;

 

A) You go to the ATM machine, ask for cash, refusal, request data logged only and transaction closed.

B) D/D requested and refused. Transaction data logged, penalty generated, entries into bank statement data listing of failure and penalty, automatic system begins routine, transaction attempt count begins, letter generated, entered into print queue, 1st or 2nd class mail sendout processed, mail disbursed, flag entered into customer file. Transaction pending rather than closed.

 

Normally a bank will cancel all D/D's if 6 or more were refused after a 3 month period - classed as 'helping you out'. That means 6 in total and not 6 from a single D/D account call. The fact that that the refused D/D probably takes 5-10 seconds in procedual time is not considered. The fact that a bank runs multiple printers doing the exact same thing 24 hours a day is the scary part.

 

Michael

[citizenB]

 

Michael

p.s. hope you all liked my 'good morning' with Barclaycard moment? lol

 

Yes, do you record your calls ?

[InformedSearcher]

Yes, do you record your calls ?

 

Sadly no but when I have some cash if ever I must get something to record with.

Michael

[JonCris]

Skype & Pamela recording are FREE to install The a USB mike no more than a tenner at PCW

[InformedSearcher]

'JonCris' thanks for that - erm, whilst I have Skype I normally use landline and mobile. So for next to nothing how do I record on the PC for either of those? I have the headset for webcam/Skype already.

Michael

[JonCris]

Have you got free basic Pamela?

[gillypam]

hi joncris.what do you mean have l got free basic:confused:.

[JonCris]

free Pamela is basic

[HSBCrusher]

Pamela for Skype - Call Recording and a lot more!

[emmasot]

is it true we wont know anything til october?

[car2403]

We may get the judgment before Summer recess which happens at the end of July, otherwise we'll have to wait for them to return from their Summer hols before hearing what has been decided.

 

I've heard they are jetting off to Benidorm using EasyJet, this year

[yourbank]

......but that isn't the end of the OFT test case since at the moment we are at the Preliminary Issues

[emmasot]

so when will we know if we getting the charges back or not?

[tifo]

so when will we know if we getting the charges back or not?

 

i hear maybe in 2011 ....

[Thailand]

The Consumer Forums - Announcements in Forum : PayDay loans

 

Does anyone think this will help? :-|

 

(I enjoyed your mention on Seahorse's YT bit, btw Tifo!)

 

Ignore the PayDay loans bit....

[InformedSearcher]

The Consumer Forums - Announcements in Forum : PayDay loans

 

Does anyone think this will help? :-|

 

(I enjoyed your mention on Seahorse's YT bit, btw Tifo!)

 

Ignore the PayDay loans bit....

 

Yes BUT the scary thing is the 'involving government' bit! Once the government gets involved with anything that equates to the start of a spiralling downward trend to .... failure/disaster/bankrupcy!

Banks will never be transparent because they would be embarassed at the public seeing just how much they 'fleece' them. It's a shame when once banks were looked at as the epitaph of integrity and now quite the opposite.

Michael

[Bigmac versus]

Banks will never be transparent because they would be embarassed at the public seeing just how much they 'fleece' them. It's a shame when once banks were looked at as the epitaph of integrity and now quite the opposite.

Michael

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

Its a disgrace to our intelligence that this test case is allowed to continue at this speed all in the name of justice.

[djgordyp]

The banks must have thought they had won the lottery the day all employers started paying wages by BACS..

[yourbank]

The Consumer Forums - Announcements in Forum : PayDay loans

 

Does anyone think this will help? :-|

 

(I enjoyed your mention on Seahorse's YT bit, btw Tifo!)

 

Ignore the PayDay loans bit....

The only way the announcement helps is to explain the OFT test case in more or less simplistic terms. A government white paper where the proposals will be considered in probably a year under a new government is what the technical term describes it as "hot air with no substance".