Phoenix/carter split court claims argh! 1 ccj already

[rogermeard]

Hi all,

 

my other half has had a county court claim made against her from "Phoenix Recoveries" for a sum just over a £1000

but they are only claiming for £160ish that is owed under an agreement that we know nothing about,

they have not reffered to who it is or anything.

 

We are about to send the courts the defence form back and request Phoenix that they produce an original copy of the account owing and agreement.

 

Now it gets weird because we got the court forms on 02 April

they are dated 28 march,

so we are still in our 14 day reply time scale..

....but my other half got a letter today from "EOS Solutions" saying that our lender (Phoenix !!)

has transferred our debt to them to recover and the full amount is payable.

 

Again there is no agreement

,Reference or anything just a number that is their ref..

..the sum quoted for recovery is £65 more than the claim.

..but spookily if you add the court fee and solicitors cost to the original sum claimed for in a county court case

yet to be heard it makes up the figure EOS are trying to claim.

 

What the hell is going on,

 

who do we owe for what and can a sum be chased if its already been claimed for in county court

but as yet has not been heard.

 

Where do we stand,

 

we are absolutely confused!!.

 

Help please??

[creditcardmug]

So even i could issue a claim against you for 1k, without even saying what it's for?

Mindboggling can't wait for more on this one

 

Can you post up the POC without the personal details of course?

[rogermeard]

No scanner so i cant post it up. I have checked out the figures and it appears to be the same debt, EOS have just added the court costs to it. I really can't get my head round this, if we are being taken to court and have received a court claim form (only for £169 outstanding) even though it is in total £1018 for a debt we still do not know who we originally owe(we guess it's a catalogue debt). How can the debt be then passed on to someone else when it's going to court ?. Baffled??

[creditcardmug]

Ok i'm sure one of the experts will be along soon, but from what i can see you have nothing to worry about.

what they will need though are a few details in particular, the particulars of claim, you could just type these into the thread thats no problem.

 

The letter from EOS has no relevance as this is now in court

[sillygirl1]

Who are the solicitors acting for EOS, sounds like Bryan Carter going for costs only, then going for the rest of it (which is against the rules). Defend the claim on the grounds that the amount is incorrect and they have not properly particularised their claim, nor supplied you with the appropriate documentation.

 

Somebody else will be along shortly to give more help.

[rogermeard]

The solicitors on the claim from court are indeed Bryan Carter, the claimant is Phoenix. On the EOS letter no solicitor or anything is mentioned , only that Phoenix have transferred the debt to them?. Again how can this be so if it's going to court now in Phoenix's name???. This is what's on the court particulars of claim................

 

The claimant claims 169.00, such sum being part of a debt due under an agreement number -------- ("the agreement"). Whereby the defendant agreed to pay the claimant 1018.26 ("the debt").

 

For the avoidance of doubt in making this claim for a part of the debt the claimant does not waive any rights as to the balance of the debt, which the defendant continues to owe to the claimant under the agreement. The claimant reserves the right to make further claim for such sums of the debt as remain outstanding.

 

 

This above is word for word of the POC.

[creditcardmug]

As sillygirl says this is Carters going for thier costs (a practice which is against court rules, the poc is very vague, and if it is a catalouge debt i doubt very much if a credit agreement exists.

 

your partner needs to file an acknowledgement of service, and send a Cpr request to the claimant asap. remember after 14 days they can and WILL go for a default judgement if you don't.

 

Thats all i'm going to say for now, it's just my opinion, up to you what you do.

 

I would have thought one of the experts would have been on by now to help with the specifics, good luck

CCM

[sillygirl1]

There we go - read up on Mr Carter and his antics on this site and you will no doubt end up without having to go to court. He is going against County Court regulations by going for HIS costs only - phone up the court tomorrow and tell them that and mention that he is known for this, cite a couple of the cases from here and they should give you further guidance.

 

The claimant CANT reserve the right to make further claims as he states, that is a CLEAR abuse of process. Let the court know immediately and they should be able to help further.

 

A CPR Part 18 request needs to go to Mr Carter and copy in the court, there is a letter in the templates which covers this, it's similar to the CCA letter but more formal. I'd also PM a moderator about this and get some more guidance.

[rogermeard]

I can't find the CPR template, where do i look. Thank you for your help, i thought i was going mad!!.

[sillygirl1]

Send this to everyone

 

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION - (I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR ORGANISATION OR ITS REPRESENTATIVES)

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with *********.(AMEND TO THE COMPANY NAME)

c. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

d.Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

e. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

f. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

g. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

h. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

i. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

 

That should put the wind up Carters, you may be lucky and get a Notice of Discontinuance straight away - this means they are not persuing the claim, if you get one sent, SEND A COPY TO THE COURT as it may be a ruse... (it has been known to receive calls "don't go to court today, it's all sorted." on the morning and find out that it hasn't and youve got a judgement by default...

 

[rogermeard]

Do i send a copy of the CPR to the court, and do i send the court the acknowledgement of service form, if so which section should i tick?

[sillygirl1]

Send the copy of the CPR you send to Bryan Carter and Phoenix to the Court, and send the court only the acknowledgement of service, this has to be done ASAP, tomorrow if possible.

 

You need to state that you are defending the whole of the claim as the amount is wrong, they have supplied no documents and the particulars are poorly particularlised.... ie no account details, default date etc etc etc....

 

Again if you ring the court they should help you with some of this if somebody isn't around on this forum to help. You can send a PM to a moderator such as Ell-en if necessary.

[rogermeard]

In section 2b of the CPR it says....my account formerly held with (insert company name). Is that the company the original debt was owed to/came from..eg: Catalogue? Or is it the claimant?. If its the original company then we don't know who its with?. How do i fill that out?.

[creditcardmug]

Hi

I would sub that for ' the alleged account formerly held with the original creditor '

 

i.e NOT my account

[sillygirl1]

I agree with creditcardmug's statement, you don't know who or what the account is about. This is what we mean by 'particularising a claim'... without the most basic info, ie name of creditor, account no you can't hope to proceed in court on just a figure pulled out of anywhere.

[rogermeard]

Right ok. Ready to send letters. Can i confirm i send Bryan carter a CPR.

Then forward a copy the Court as well. Do i send the same CPR to Phoenix as well?. Also what do i do regarding EOS now claiming for the full amount as Phoenix have passed it over to them as well?. Again thanks for all your helpful advice!!

[creditcardmug]

The main thing is that you send it to The Claimant as named on the court form along with the address, you don't have to send a copy to the court, but i did for completeness, and because the court clerk said i could when i rang for advice.

Just forget about all the other parties for now, its the court claim youre dealing with and the only one you are fighting is the one who has issued the claim.

 

hope this helps i'm new to this myself, but don't worry, i really dont think they have a leg to stand on

[sillygirl1]

Again creditcardug's advice is sound... in fact I've clicked their scales. Its been a while now since I've dealt with things myself (touch wood....) but am often called on to help people with these creeps.

 

The legal bods who 'assist' DCAs will be next in the 'firing line' but sadly as they are part and parcel of the 'establishment' very little will happen.

 

Keep us posted on what happens, I can dig out the other claims on this site where Carters have issued Notices of Discontinuance before they got to court if you want more ammunition....

[rogermeard]

sillygirl you have PM.

[rogermeard]

Right got a letter back from Bryan Carter toady saying they are requesting the info i requested from their client and they can confirm my account is on hold.

 

The amount owing still has the court fees added to it, can they do that, it amounts to £65. Also i haven't heard from the court but i sent them a copy of the letter i sent to Carters with a covering letter. Is the case still active or on hold??

[drob]

I too have a Phoenix nightmare!!!!

 

Shop Direct have passed my Abound account to Phoenix although i did CCA Shop Direct but failed to reply. Phoenix have passed my account to EOS Solutions who contacted me, so i CCA'd them. EOS solutions wrote back to me and told me that they have now passed my account to Phoenix.

 

Phoenix have not contacted me nor have they instructed any other debt collection agents to contact me. It worries me that everything has gone very quiet.

 

I would send a CCA to Phoenix recoveries directly but as yet i have not been able to find a registered address for them, apparently they have offices in Luxenbourge.

 

Im wondering if the next step will be a CCJ from Bryan Carter & Co

[rogermeard]

Ridiculous isn't it!!

[drob]

Phoenix Recoveries seem to be very hard to locate or find any information on

[tifo]

Phoenix Recoveries seem to be very hard to locate or find any information on

 

Yes, who and where are they cos i have had debts assigned to them but never actually receive anything. They seem to buy debts and pass them to other agencies, yet we never receive any documentation from them.

 

This is them at the Information Commissioners Office :

 

Registration Number: Z9853611

Date Registered: 12 April 2007 Registration Expires: 11 April 2009

 

Data Controller: PHOENIX RECOVERIES (UK) LIMITED S.A.R.L.

 

 

Address:

25B BOULEVARD ROYAL

4TH FLOOR

L-2449 LUXEMBOURG

Representative Name:

 

MR P VERMAAK

 

Representative Address:

 

CARGILL PLC

KNOWLE HILL PARK

FAIRMILE LANE

COBHAM

SURREY

KT11 2PD

This register entry describes, in very general terms, the personal data being processed by:

PHOENIX RECOVERIES (UK) LIMITED S.A.R.L.

[rogermeard]

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