Morgan Stanley/Goldfish Cabot are now chasing advice please

[trumpetmaest]

I had a Morgan Stanley Card & I have been paying it off along with all my debts via a DMP with CCCS.

 

I have just received a letter from Cabot saying they have bought my Goldfish Account and to call them to sort out payments etc.

 

After checking with CCCS they told me that Goldfish took over Morgan Stanley.

 

Anyway, I have sent Cabot a CCA request letter and £1 payment.

 

I have also told CCCS not to pay Cabot even though they told me that I should because Cabot have bought lots of Goldfish Accounts recently!!!

 

Now should I send a SAR? and who to? Morgan Stanley, Goldfish, or Barclaycard? Who I believe have just bought goldfish!

 

Any advice

[Pinky69]

To SAR them is tantamount to acknowledging the debt - asking for details of a debt that you are placing in dispute and for which they may have no agreement. Wait to see if they come up with a legitimate agreement.

 

The thing about CCCS is that once they set up a DMP they like to be in control of it. You are entitled to ask for any debt to be removed from it and the fact that Cabot took over a lot of Goldfish cards recently is irrelevant. They are asking you to pay a debt for which there may be no agreement.

I had a DMP with CSSS until last November - I gave it up because they became a shambles - they made payments late and statements made no sense. When I told them I was closing it, they called me to warn me that agencies might add interest if I tried to pay them myself. I said I was aware of that and closed the DMP. I CCA'd all of them and 8 out of 9 have gone - no agreements. The other one I chose to pay and that will be finished this year.

For me, CCCS is fine to give you a breathing space but is not a long-term solution.

[Pinky69]

I should add that Cabot had no agreement for an MSDW card they took over in my name - they seem to have just bought a job lot!

[Seahorse]

SAR'ing is not in itself acknowledging a debt. All you are doing is making a legitimate request for all the information that they hold on you.

 

I would send the SAR to whoever you were last paying. It will find its way up the chain to whoever has your data now. Then you will be able to deal with them once you know where to communicate.

 

And is it just the case that Goldfish have dumped you having taken over the account, even though you were paying through your DMP?

[Pinky69]

Why would you want to know the details of something you are not acknowledging? In my opinion the time to send and SAR is when they have produced a legitimate agreement and you accept the debt.

[Seahorse]

BECAUSE Pinky, it would be nice to know BEFOREHAND if there are any areas that would assist in negotiating a better settlement should it come to the crunch. And even should the debt be unenforcable, it may even turn out that charges and penalties are in excess of the alleged debt. Which would be recoverable from the OC.

 

At the very least, it enables you to identify EXACTLY where you stand. And who knows what other juicy tidbits might be uncovered?

[Pinky69]

The amount is put on hold whilst it is in dispute and Cabot do that so there won't be charges recoverable whilst it remains in dispute. It doesn't make sense to say "I do not ackowledge any debt to your company" followed by "but I want to know the details in case there is anything I can claim back". You either acknowledge the debt or you don't and if you do acknowledge it and want your charges back, there is no point in asking for a copy of the credit agreement so you can dispute the debt.

[trumpetmaest]

Update...

 

I have just got a letter back from Cabot along with my original letter & £1 cheque!

 

The letter reads that they acknowledge receipt of my request. However, they say they are not obliged to provide this information and they do not accept the fee required under 77 and/ or 78 of the consumer credit act and they have therefore returned the fee.

 

The letter tells me to contact them to discuss my payment options!

 

It is from Emma Robertson.

 

What should I do now ?

 

I am very confused... should I re-send or SAR Goldfish?

Btw the amount they quote is now £10800!! it has gone up over £2000 since Morgan Stanley had it

[Pinky69]

That is the standard reply from Cabot - does it also say they will ,however, ask for a copy of the credit agreement to be "helpful?" They are not being "helpful" at all - they must by law provide a copy of the agreement on request, no matter what they say. Keep the Postal Order in your records to prove you sent it. Don't contact anyone by phone - ever - but write to remind them the account is in dispute and you await the copy of the credit agreement. There may be quite a bit of correspondence before you finally complain that they have committed an offence after the time for that has expired.

 

You have had 2 views of the timing of SAR's. I personally would deal with the existence of an agreement and disputing the debt first but if you are going to SAR them then I would send it to Goldfish. You may be interested to know I had an MSDW card that Cabot tried to pursue and there is no agreement for it.

[nicklea]

Pinky,

 

Can I ask if you have some connection with Cabot? It's just that your post does sound very much like the response you might get straight from Cabot or a.n.other DCA.

 

Sorry Pinky - that might have been uncalled for. My Apologies if I've offended you, it was your post at 18.10 I saw, not the later ones.

 

When you send an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to ANY company or organisation you are simply asking for all information that that company or organisation holds on you as is your legal right to do so.

 

Actually, just as an aside, I was quite interested to read on the website of my local city council where they made reference to S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) requests. They openly said that they realised that people usually made these requests when they were annoyed with the council for some reason and they asked people to phone up directly and voice their complaint instead of going through the formal (and obviously quite costly) S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) process.

[Pinky69]

I won't spoil the poster's thread by telling you what I think of that!

[Fred Bassett]

To S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) them is tantamount to acknowledging the debt - asking for details of a debt that you are placing in dispute and for which they may have no agreement. Wait to see if they come up with a legitimate agreement.

 

The thing about CCCS is that once they set up a DMP they like to be in control of it. You are entitled to ask for any debt to be removed from it and the fact that Cabot took over a lot of Goldfish cards recently is irrelevant. They are asking you to pay a debt for which there may be no agreement.

I had a DMP with CSSS until last November - I gave it up because they became a shambles - they made payments late and statements made no sense. When I told them I was closing it, they called me to warn me that agencies might add interest if I tried to pay them myself. I said I was aware of that and closed the DMP. I CCA'd all of them and 8 out of 9 have gone - no agreements. The other one I chose to pay and that will be finished this year.

For me, CCCS is fine to give you a breathing space but is not a long-term solution.

 

I agree with you on that one Pinky. I too pulled out of a DMP with the CCCS. Of my debts, the majority are unenforceable and of the ones that are OK, I've SAR'd one of them and plan to do the same with the rest. I haven't done so far because they're still accepting the payments I made when I was on my DMP, without adding interest and without asking for more. Once they do, I'll SAR them. The plan is to get a couple more months out of the way when I will have sufficient funds to make them a full and final offer.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[trumpetmaest]

Thanks. Yes Cabot do say they will send me the details to be helpful!

 

Should I wait for the 10+2 days and then send them another letter?

 

Does it matter that they have returned my letter & payment?

[Brassed off]

Just WAIT until you receive anything back from them for now TM. There is no need to remind them of their legal obligations.

 

Cabot usually send the £1 back anyway

[Pinky69]

As Brassed Off said, leave them to get in touch with you. IF there is no agreement, the next letter will be to say they have sent the original creditor a reminder. Then they will write to say they haven't been able to get an agreement and you can ask MSDW yourself for one if you like! After that you won't hear from them again. Patience - and try not to worry (easier said than done!).

[Seahorse]

MAY not hear from them again Pinky. Some of us do.

[Pinky69]

If my experience is anything to go by, once you have the "contact them yourself" letter, you won't hear from Cabot again. That does not mean to say they won't pass it on to another DCA, which in my case didn't happen. Each individual case is different so there is no way what will actually happen in your case. I give you my experience with Cabot in support. I think you will have understood this and don't need the obvious pointed out to you.

[Seahorse]

I think that after a couple of recent court cases, Cabot have well and truly had their fingers burnt. Perhaps they are a bit more wary now about litigation when all they have is a dodgy agreement to rely on.

 

However, bear in mind that even if Cabot cease all contact, it's very likely that there wil be default registered against you, making life difficult for a few years.

[tbern123]

If my experience is anything to go by, once you have the "contact them yourself" letter, you won't hear from Cabot again. That does not mean to say they won't pass it on to another DCA, which in my case didn't happen. Each individual case is different so there is no way what will actually happen in your case. I give you my experience with Cabot in support. I think you will have understood this and don't need the obvious pointed out to you.

 

I agree with Seahorse and I think you should send a SAR. Afterall if they have no agreement they do not have any authority to be processing your data. A SAR will confirm what if any information they have about you and it usually also contains a few nuggets of information you can use against Cabot if need be at a later stage.

 

For the avoidance of doubt and to avoid any confusion a SAR is not an admission of a debt. It is your legal right under the DPA.

[tbern123]

Forgot to add, in my experience which isn't really that much in relation to Cabot (I jest with you)

 

Cabot don't give up that easily, even if they don't have an agreement they are like a dog with a bone.

[tbern123]

I give you my experience with Cabot in support. I think you will have understood this and don't need the obvious pointed out to you.

 

We can all beat our chests in relation to our experiences with Cabot...

 

For example here is my thread with over two thousand posts

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/36665-cabot-again-urgent-help.html

 

Here is my thread when I started litigation against Cabot

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/80270-litigation-tbern123-cabot-financial.html

 

Oh here is my thread detailing how I stopped Cabot Calling

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/33320-no-more-calls-cabot.html

 

Seahorse isn't exactly a stranger to the workings of Cabot either

 

With nearly 1,000 posts

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/54029-seahorse-cabot.html

 

Seahorse also runs a very informative blog and was responsible for a lot of investigation into the inner workings of Cabot....

 

I would personally (I have in the past) follow any advice given by Seahorse as he has done it and got the teashirt (or should that be the website)

 

This is nothing personal against you pinky, I just feel the original poster should be able to make an informed decision in relation to which advice he should follow

[andrew1]

Wot about the rest of the Cabot Fan Club matey?

 

 

millyuns of posts - millyuns and millyuns we almost got a personal invite from our Ken!

[tbern123]

Wot about the rest of the Cabot Fan Club matey?

 

 

millyuns of posts - millyuns and millyuns we almost got a personal invite from our Ken!

 

 

Oi don't you start..... Women !!!!!! All they want is attention attention attention

[Seahorse]

And flowers.

 

And chocolates.

 

Shoes too.

 

OOPS. Hijacking this thread, ain't we. Soz. Carry on. :]

[Pinky69]

They weren't like a dog with a bone with me - they just disappeared. As for SAR's, I think that one has been flogged to death. Different views have been expressed and it is for the poster to choose what he wants to do.